I think I am going to TiVo :(

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kmp14

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I think I am going to TiVo :(

#1

Post by kmp14 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:33 pm

I have given it a good fight. WMC was awesome for years. but the inconsistent and horrible Rovi data has just about pushed me over the edge.....

A new TiVo is on its' way, but I am not 100% sure. Talk me out of keeping the TiVo!!

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mcewinter

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#2

Post by mcewinter » Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:41 pm

Monthly subscription of guide = Booooooooo
TV and some streaming only ...with a lame interface = Boooooooo

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#3

Post by mdavej » Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:07 pm

Rovi pushed me over the edge too (with a little help from some awesome Tivo deals at the time). So no monthly subscription here. They use Zap2It guide data, so that part is fine. I have no regrets whatsoever.

I don't think a WMC user can fault Tivo's streaming. Their Netflix actually works and is full 1080p24, as does Amazon, Plex, Youtube, etc. Search works across all those apps plus TV. Channel logos work without any effort on the user's part. I have live buffers on every tuner. Ad hoc recordings start at the beginning of the buffer. Management via web is built in. Commercial skip is built in. Extenders (Minis) work far better than any WMC extender. You can get a nice RF qwerty remote. I've never had to roll back a windows update, update a video driver, reinstall playready, reboot my tuners or manually fix my channel map. It just works. It works so well that I'm compelled to come over here and try to help solve other people's WMC problems.

Come on over. The water's fine.
Last edited by mdavej on Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#4

Post by STC » Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:07 pm

Not so lame IMO. Great integration with streaming. A guide that works.

Comparing both I'd actually point the lameness to WMC now considering all the issues it has.
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#5

Post by mcewinter » Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:59 pm

STC wrote:Not so lame IMO. Great integration with streaming. A guide that works.

Comparing both I'd actually point the lameness to WMC now considering all the issues it has.


The guide better "work" as you are paying a premium for it, and the guide is it's main function...no movies or local playback of anything. I find the product rather lackluster and expensive for what is offered.

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#6

Post by Ed  » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:22 pm

I have Tivo - jumped during the summer sale they had. Went for lifetime so I have no monthly fees.

It Just Works™ as mentioned. I only had 1 issue as I mentioned somewhere else - I was getting audio dropouts on just one of the Tivo Minis - a factory reset of the Mini fixed it and haven't had any other issues since with any of my Tivo devices. Plus - we get updates with Tivo! Both feature and stability ones! Just got some new features in an update either last week or the one before. When's the last time you could say that about WMC?

I don't use apps on the Tivo at all; I only use it as a DVR. I believe in having a dedicated app box as they're usually much faster (for apps - Tivo isn't slow when doing DVR/TV stuff), and you can just replace it when out of date or wanting to move to a different app ecosystem. The one and only way I do use apps on the Tivo though is for Onepass. When you set up a series recording - lets say you were only made aware of the show when it was at season 4 - if the previous seasons are on Netflix or Hulu - Tivo will slipstream those eps via those services into your recorded TV folder and you can then click and watch those eps as if you recorded them. And if you miss a scheduled recording for whatever reason - if it's on Hulu it will slipstream that ep into your series recording folder where it would have been if the recording wasn't missed. That's pretty neat and like I said - the only thing I use apps on the Tivo for - and am glad it's there. For regular app browsing/usage though - I use Android TV.

But, the apps it has are still more and miles better than what you'll get in WMC (which is to say - nonexistent in comparison).

I made the switch because of the guide data changeover in WMC too. I think you'll like the Tivo. I do. I would suggest going for the lifetime pricing instead of monthly subscription. It's pricey upfront but saves you money in the long run. If you hold out for a sale like some of us here did (can't tell you when that will be though) it won't be that costly upfront and save you even more in the long run. Tivos also have pretty reasonable resale value - something to consider if they come out with a new model and you get the upgrade bug. Something else to keep in mind.

All in all - it's so much nicer after being stuck in the literally stagnant WMC ecosystem for so long. Its last substantial update was over 6 years ago at this point (if you don't count them removing features or the horrible guide switch fiasco lol).

Edit: Oh, and you can use Plex on the Tivo for local media playback of archived Movies/TV/Music/Videos, if you want to use the Tivo for apps.

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#7

Post by mdavej » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:52 pm

mcewinter wrote:The guide better "work" as you are paying a premium for it, and the guide is it's main function...no movies or local playback of anything. I find the product rather lackluster and expensive for what is offered.
My 4 tuner DVR including lifetime was $300, hardly any premium at all. You'd be hard pressed to put together an equivalent WMC system for that. I play back local content all the time, including all my old WMC recordings.

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#8

Post by 3rob3 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:04 pm

Ed  wrote:But, the apps it has are still more and miles better than what you'll get in WMC (which is to say - nonexistent in comparison).
I get the point your making, but feel the need to point out that the Xbox 360 as an extender has excellent streaming apps. It also has many not available on Tivo (HBO Go). Yes they are 720P but with a bandwidth cap I am fine with that. I have a Roku TV but have stopped using that in favor of the 360 apps for the most part.

I am surprised so many people have "problems" running a Media Center system. Heck, my 70 year old parents have run a cablecard setup since they first became available. The only issue I can remember in all that time was that Win7 update a few years ago that broke extenders. They also use that same PC as their everyday desktop. The key I think is only using extenders for viewing. Stop using your PC attached to the TV, that's where most problems come from IMHO. Even better, run the PC headless and turn Windows Updates off. The only Rovi issue I have noticed is the college football game TBA issue. That is annoying but not a big deal for me personally.

Now, all that said, that summer Tivo sale was tempting and I am not dogging your decision. They have some great features (and stability, continue to get updates, etc.), I just didn't think I could handle the dated looking interface.

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#9

Post by mcewinter » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:05 pm

mdavej wrote:
mcewinter wrote:The guide better "work" as you are paying a premium for it, and the guide is it's main function...no movies or local playback of anything. I find the product rather lackluster and expensive for what is offered.
My 4 tuner DVR including lifetime was $300, hardly any premium at all. You'd be hard pressed to put together an equivalent WMC system for that. I play back local content all the time, including all my old WMC recordings.
You can't safely say it costs $300 to go the Tivo route, all the same. I have a large movie collection and most/all of it will not play on a Tivo, at least with the current grace my set up currently offers.

I don't diagree with going the Tivo route if that's your thing. The route I see in my future is not one that I would recommend, but I'm willing to maintain this as a hobby.

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#10

Post by Ed  » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:20 pm

3rob3 wrote:
Ed  wrote:But, the apps it has are still more and miles better than what you'll get in WMC (which is to say - nonexistent in comparison).
I get the point your making, but feel the need to point out that the Xbox 360 as an extender has excellent streaming apps. It also has many not available on Tivo (HBO Go). Yes they are 720P but with a bandwidth cap I am fine with that. I have a Roku TV but have stopped using that in favor of the 360 apps for the most part.
Tivo is getting HBO Go (http://zatznotfunny.com/2015-12/tivo-hbo-go/) - but yeah the 360 has more apps currently- it's been out 10 years I hope it would. But Tivo is still adding apps to their library - where as with the XBox One already out and 2 years old at this point - who can say how long the Xbox Live part of the 360 and its apps will still be around for? They're gonna disable it/shut it down one day. Every console with online functionality has.

I used 360s as my extenders (and preferred them among all others) as you yourself know (you bought one from me :D ) - but even it having apps doesn't give you the OnePass functionality I mentioned. And both the Tivo and 360 are much too slow as app boxes for my tastes. Hence why even after getting over the novelty of having everything in one box with the 360 - I went back to a Chromecast (later Android TV) for the much better PQ and speed.
3rob3 wrote: I am surprised so many people have "problems" running a Media Center system. Heck, my 70 year old parents have run a cablecard setup since they first became available. The only issue I can remember in all that time was that Win7 update a few years ago that broke extenders. They also use that same PC as their everyday desktop. The key I think is only using extenders for viewing. Stop using your PC attached to the TV, that's where most problems come from IMHO. Even better, run the PC headless and turn Windows Updates off. The only Rovi issue I have noticed is the college football game TBA issue. That is annoying but not a big deal for me personally.
I did use a headless HTPC and only used extenders for viewing. I agree if still on WMC - that's the way to go. Didn't have to tinker with my setup at all. But the guide data switch - which people are still having issues with the new guide data - is what caused me to switch - and affects you if you use a PC or extender only for viewing.

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#11

Post by 3rob3 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:24 pm

Yeah, sorry my post was confusing. That was not all directed at you just the first part about streaming apps on the 360.

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#12

Post by Ed  » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:38 pm

3rob3 wrote:Yeah, sorry my post was confusing. That was not all directed at you just the first part about streaming apps on the 360.
The tinkering part did apply to me though whether directed at me or not which is why I decided to address it is all. There was the issue of having no guide data and having to try to force the guide switch over/update - but getting the 'no TV download data available' so having to edit hosts files and such - then the issue of Rovi using obscenely large images causing slowdowns when browsing the guide (via an extender) and having to edit host file and delete cached images and then being stuck with no images for TV shows/movies - then the issues that continue today of mismatched images for TV shows and movies and subpar or just completely incorrect guide data.

I had a completely tinker-free setup. Microsoft decided it was time I should start tinkering again. I said forget that and moved to a different ecosystem instead. I can't say in anyway I feel I made the wrong choice or hastily changed ecosystems too soon. It seems like the problems with guide data being missing or incorrect and guide images mismatched is here to stay for those who decide to stick with WMC.

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#13

Post by STC » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:04 pm

I currently use WMC for cable TV, oppo BR and Roku.
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#14

Post by Ed  » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:13 pm

STC wrote:I currently use WMC for cable TV, oppo BR and Roku for streaming.
Yeah, to segregate everything is the best option IMO too. Want to upgrade to 4k BR? Boom - just upgrade your BR player. New app box/ecosystem? Boom - just replace the app box. Different DVR or no more DVR? Boom - just replace or remove the DVR. It's the most flexible/versatile setup to have everything segregated. One of your boxes can even break and it doesn't take all your other boxes/functions/activities down too. Replacing/removing one doesn't have to affect the others, and all it requires is to change inputs on the TV. Easy peasy.
Last edited by Ed  on Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#15

Post by mdavej » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:14 pm

mcewinter wrote:You can't safely say it costs $300 to go the Tivo route, all the same. I have a large movie collection and most/all of it will not play on a Tivo, at least with the current grace my set up currently offers.

I don't diagree with going the Tivo route if that's your thing. The route I see in my future is not one that I would recommend, but I'm willing to maintain this as a hobby.
True, the $300 deal is long gone. You'd have to buy used to get that price today.

How much of your movie collection plays inside WMC and on your WMC extenders? Not much I imagine. And if it does, that means you had to convert to a compatible format to do so, much like what you'd have to do for Plex. But I've run across very little that wouldn't play in Plex.

In any case, I didn't get Tivo to stream my movie collection (although mine is practically non-existent). That's what my HTPC is for. I got it to replace WMC, which it does very well. As for the interface, I'll take function over form any day.

My main point is, if you're frustrated with the Rovi debacle, then Tivo is a great DVR alternative. Of course it's not going to do everything, but as a DVR, it's hard to beat.

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#16

Post by Ed  » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:22 pm

mdavej wrote:How much of your movie collection plays inside WMC and on your WMC extenders? Not much I imagine. And if it does, that means you had to convert to a compatible format to do so, much like what you'd have to do for Plex. But I've run across very little that wouldn't play in Plex.
You don't need to re-encode content for Plex. Plex will transcode media on the fly to be compatible with the playback device you are using (providing the Plex server your media is hosted on has the oomph - but it doesn't take much TBH. Only need to worry if doing multiple streams simultaneously).

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#17

Post by mcewinter » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:41 pm

mdavej wrote:
mcewinter wrote:You can't safely say it costs $300 to go the Tivo route, all the same. I have a large movie collection and most/all of it will not play on a Tivo, at least with the current grace my set up currently offers.

I don't diagree with going the Tivo route if that's your thing. The route I see in my future is not one that I would recommend, but I'm willing to maintain this as a hobby.
True, the $300 deal is long gone. You'd have to buy used to get that price today.

How much of your movie collection plays inside WMC and on your WMC extenders? Not much I imagine. And if it does, that means you had to convert to a compatible format to do so, much like what you'd have to do for Plex. But I've run across very little that wouldn't play in Plex.

In any case, I didn't get Tivo to stream my movie collection (although mine is practically non-existent). That's what my HTPC is for. I got it to replace WMC, which it does very well. As for the interface, I'll take function over form any day.

My main point is, if you're frustrated with the Rovi debacle, then Tivo is a great DVR alternative. Of course it's not going to do everything, but as a DVR, it's hard to beat.
I don't use extenders for the same reason. (That's a lie. I have one in the bedroom that I rarely use.)
Plex is overated in a home theater environment, but great on portable devices.
My guide has some mismatched pictures, otherwise I have no issues.

I have two HTPCs. I record to one and can watch TV on both as nothing is protected except HBO, which I never record.

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#18

Post by STC » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:41 pm

Ed  wrote:
STC wrote:I currently use WMC for cable TV, oppo BR and Roku for streaming.
Yeah, to segregate everything is the best option IMO too.
Too many random problems with Totalmedia Theatre. Usually when guests were around to watch a movie.
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#19

Post by mcewinter » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:42 pm

Ed  wrote:
mdavej wrote:How much of your movie collection plays inside WMC and on your WMC extenders? Not much I imagine. And if it does, that means you had to convert to a compatible format to do so, much like what you'd have to do for Plex. But I've run across very little that wouldn't play in Plex.
You don't need to re-encode content for Plex. Plex will transcode media on the fly to be compatible with the playback device you are using (providing the Plex server your media is hosted on has the oomph - but it doesn't take much TBH. Only need to worry if doing multiple streams simultaneously).
Plex won't play a blu-ray ISO.

Does Plex bitstream multi-channel audio?

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#20

Post by mcewinter » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:45 pm

STC wrote:
Ed  wrote:
STC wrote:I currently use WMC for cable TV, oppo BR and Roku for streaming.
Yeah, to segregate everything is the best option IMO too.
Too many random problems with Totalmedia Theatre. Usually when guests were around to watch a movie.
TMT5 + AnyDVD works a treat.

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