Attempts at Manual Guide Implementation

[STC]

Damn, I have the same problem. It reports as Loading... 100% but there is no more guide data.

Perhaps there could be a way to rebuild the db now.

[glorp]

Client maintenance cycle maybe ?

mcupdate -dbgc [-pscn 0] <not sure about the need for -pscn

[STC]

We are on the same page. I was actually thinking about the mcupdate process and checking out the flags.

[STC]

No dice.

The daily mcupdate scheduled task uses these arguments: -crl -hms -pscn 15

Is there data on what these switches do anywhere?

[STC]

It could be a permissions issue. mcupdate doesn't error, it just does nothing when run as admin from a command line in the ehome directory.
I'm having success running it through taskscheduler with arguments.

[STC]

Okay still no result.

The way MS has the guide configured for CableCard seems to be the issue. It could be that the daily download from MS includes a key or a dirty handshake that allows the full process to complete.

[glorp]

Too bad. It may be time to contact BSEPG and ask them why. They must know if it can be used with CC installs.

Here is a thread with some of the mcupdate switches. -dbgc (db garbage collection) deletes old schedule data from the database and compresses so I thought it might have a shot at repairing or restarting guide, whatever. Just not sure if -dbgc works all by itself. See second post in link below.
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... d35?auth=1

[STC]

Thanks for the info.

I'll play with the epglisting area tomorrow.
I assumed it was the store for the guide file downloaded each day, perhaps it is not. Mine has a date stamp of 10/07 (day/month where I live).

edit/ I'll have a look to see if the file contains any specific code for my lineup ID, which may not be present in the Schedule Direct file.

[STC]

Too bad. It may be time to contact BSEPG and ask them why. They must know if it can be used with CC installs.

I think they are in Aus so may not have experience in the area. I shall fire an email.

[Niall]

Hi Guys,

I'm the author of BSEPG - at request of someone who emailed me I thought I'd step in here and see if I can help.

As you probably know we don't have Cable Card down here - so haven't had personal experience with how that's setup - however am pretty sure folks have setup BSEPG + CC in the past for various reasons (ie. supplementing crap or missing EPG data where needed). Also of course, BSEPG is used by folks all over the world with different setups (DVBC, DVBS-2, IPTV, Analog etc) too.. In theory, BSEPG should be able to work for CC as there is separation in the MC system between EPG listings + tuned channels - what MC normally sets up for you (in the past) is both - and then maps them to each other.

So what I'm thinking is that the issue you guys need to resolve is, once EPG Data is injected into MC (via BSEPG) how to make it come up for channels tuned into your system.

Normally (in my setup) - this can be achieved by :

- First up, ensure sure channel is first tuned in + watchable via the MC EPG/Live TV (even if it's telling you there isn't any data or what's coming up is wrong).
- Then, go into the edit channel page (quick way is via EPG - move left so channel header is highlighted and press OK).
- Once you are in there - click on the 'Edit Listings' button.
- This will then bring up a list of available EPG Channel Listings (which will be combination of everything in the DB - eg. MS Downloaded listings, OTA data, BSEPG listings).
- then pick the BSEPG imported listing / save channel + it should now be mapped to your tuned channel from now on (in theory).

Also - I'd normally advise doing a MCEPG Database reset so you clean everything up (particularly any previously scheduled recordings etc) - as the internal ID's used for Programs/Series will not match up (even if visually they look the same). Also if you've used any (other) logo tools etc to inject Channel logos this might have messed up ability to map channels easily too..

Additionally, some tips to help find your imported channels (if you're seeing a huge list) - try to populate the affiliate/broadcaster field (in BSEPG) - this will come up in brackets next to channel name assuming it's short enough or perhaps assign an easily identifiable channel logo so you know that channel XXX is actually XXX imported by BSEPG.

If you get this working for 1 or 2 channels (rather than trying to get it all running straight away) will be easier to resolve too + then apply to all channels once working.

Note that for many other countries there's some 'auto matching' functionality which can help directly match your BSEPG channels with tuned ones (without doing all of the above). This works differently depending on what type of signal is in use - if direct name matching doesn't work then potentially the technique available for DVB-S2 in the BSEPG Tool (using tune frequencies) might potentially work too. If not - you'll probably have a bit of work to do up front to get it all configured - however once that's done + you have scheduled EPG updates going you shouldn't need to touch it again.


There's a 30 day free trial of BSEPG available (which provides 100% working functionality) - so feel free to try/download it etc and have a play! If it's working and you like it, consider purchasing - license allows for up to 5 machines - so works out pretty cheap if it's something that's important to you. You'll also notice it's got a *lot* of smarts going on (particularly with how it processes your XMLTV so series recording works properly across channels etc + so it makes the most out of your metadata)- so it's not just directly sending in the XMLTV as some of the other free tools do - this can make a huge difference for useability. Also it's designed to work smoothly/efficiently with the massive (100-200mb) sized xmltv files you guys have too..

Hope that helps. I'll keep an eye on this thread to see if I can help further (nb: I'm in Australia so we are UTC+10)..

cheers
Niall

[STC]

Thanks vey much for the assist Niall, I'll work on this a bit more tonight hopefully. You have explained some enlightening things to try.

With CableCard, the content is sent through a protected path that uses encryption keys. Setting up a lineup requires connection to Microsoft during the initial process which creates the keys. This is why the route I have gone is to try and tag-in to an existing fully working setup from a few days ago where all I need to have work is to add to the existing guide db.

[DavidinCT]

Interesting, I did not know cablecard EPG was protected, I always thought it worked like every other source. I'll keep an eye on this thread, Nice find STC !

I've used the loadmxf tool a handful of times (you can import and export scheduled shows with it) and a few switches with mcupdate to force it to run but, never tried to import EPG data.

You learn something new every day and this is my one thing

[STC]

^ As far as I can tell, the EPG isn't 'protected', BUT you need to have a working lineup which IS protected. This starts by querying MS for the lineup ID after entering ZIP/Post Code.

It looks like you have to get the lineup ID to make the keys work, to be able to view, all in the initial mcupdate setup run.

My issue is that if I do that with Rovi data, half of my lineup is completely missing (some 200 channels) and most of the rest are incorrectly numbered in the wrong slot.
Completely unusable.

If there is a way to complete initial mcupdate to get the lineup ID, make the keys then start with a blank db with no channels or guide setup, I think it would be possible to add them one by one, or make BSEPG work, or even ask Niall kindly if it would be possible to be able to tweak some code for us in NA to automate the process.

My data grab from Schedule Directs is from Zap2it with a 100% correct lineup and it contains the correct metadata for MC7. Of course I would pay the 20 bucks to get the data legally via this method if I can get things to work.

/edited

[glorp]

Actually I think the initial channel map comes from the CableCARD which downloads that from the headend. I don't think that's something MS provides at setup. IIRC you use SilDust, but my Cetons have an independent channel map with IDs for the channels which I can query via HTTP - and that's something I can see whether or not WMC is set up for tuners/schedule.

[STC]

The way I read this is that both have to sync including call sign for a channel in the lineup to appear in the guide.

I have in the past notified Zap2it of changes including call sign that exactly matches callsign from channel map

[STC]

I'm guessing right now that the schedule direct call signs in the downloaded guide even though they are from Zap2it do not match those on the channel map.

[STC]

Any more thoughts on this: MS issues the HTPC with a lineup ID number once selected from the list of possible providers from entering your zip/post code. This I think is an MS specific ID? and is used in numerous areas. I have not seen the ID in the ScheduleDirect XML file even though the local and provider is the same.

[STC]

By the way most of the blurb coming out of my head is pure conjecture. Anyone please chime in.

[glorp]

I did a lot of poking around but it all comes down to the same thing - that there doesn't seem to be any way to force MC to connect a channel id to a guide listing by some user action outside of setup. At least not one that's documented. I'm 100% sure it's possible because:
1) They did it to us when they switched guide providers (not all that successfully in many cases)
2) I can see new channels added by the cableco on my Ceton channel map list after my last setup was done that are assigned correctly to WMC EPG schedule data, meaning those new ones were id-ed and added without me needing to do a setup to pick them up.

MS did 1) without a setup and without any real access to running or triggering tasks. It occurred to me that there might be some "flag" for epg data that says "this is new, you need to connect channel to epg listing for this". If that's true it might be possible to revise the XMLTV data before loading the first time but I couldn't find anything obvious in the MXF docs and it's a total hack anyway.

I have a feeling the CableCARD manufacturers probably know how it works but nothing I can find documented publicly. There are also some interesting MC Scheduled Tasks. A couple are described in the LoadXMF docs and several others that are not but nothing that I can see that look like they would do exactly the right thing. I just can't see a path without a whole lot of manual channel assignments needing to be done after every setup, like Niall described. That's way to much work for 500+ channels. FWIW, that is exactly what I had to do back in the OTA/clear QAM days when a broadcaster would forget or mess up the call sign IDs on a channel and it would be there in WMC's digital channels but have no guide assignment. And to your point above, I'm 100% certain the channel map IDs in the tuner don't match (often) with call signs used by Rovi or Zap2It (nor do they match between the latter two either).

[STC]

Your comments have made me take my thoughts down a different lane
I can't spend much time on things tonight, but on the advice of Niall I did the manual edit listings on a random channel (CNN).

There is a duplicate set of every channel, one un-numbered, one not (the imported data). I picked the un-numbered listing and it worked - Data up to two weeks.

So it CAN be done, albeit manually per channel through MC7 at present.

Also to consider, with this particular restore I already have a fully 100% accurate lineup as it's the old Zap2it lineup from a few days ago. If I didn't have this, I'd be having to add each channel manually.