Signal Issues Return

[cKuR6]

Ceton InfiniTV6 ETH - TWC Cable Card & Cisco TA - X64 W7 ULT - GB Network & Eth6 on a GB switch. All unused coax capped.

old thread locked: http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... =68&t=8559

Literally, nothing has changed. A few days back i noticed terrible pixelation. Signals dropped to -4 to -5's. Within spec, but this system renders anything less than -+1 unwatchable. TWC support call found card unlocked. Locked ,watched emm's raise, which usually fixed the issue. No luck this time. Still unwatchable.

[JohnW248]

What region and headend are you on?

I recently had the TWC supplied amp fail and totally re-wired the RF distribution cleaning out splitters, cables, drops to old NTSC devices, etc. My signal levels are also down about -4 dBmV and I did have pixilation on one device on one channel (actually QAM tank). I went through the system again with an open end wrench and tightened all the connectors. I had also installed POE filters.

The physical check and tightening brought up the SNR and made the channel watchable.

There may be some other issue in your area, either a change in the headend or maybe the node conversion from fiber to coax has a problem. But start with your own cables and make sure everything is quad shield and compression fittings and tight and then log times when the issue appears. The signal level is dynamic and the amps do respond to ambient temperature changes so if you're in a region where you have had wide fluctuation in temperatures (like it has here) or lots of weather--that might be an issue.

[cKuR6]

I'm in Ohio. House is wired with RG6 and cat 5e. I've checked all components. There have been no changes or movement of any of the equipment. It was odd that it started with a loss of cable card lock, but correcting that issue did not correct the signal issues..... I'm worried that the correlation to weather, is caused by the below. My issues were all but completely gone, during the freezing cold dry weather. Warm and humid returns and I lose my tv again.

I'm fearing that the "repair" of a line dug up by a dog right before we purchased the home last year, was not repaired by TWC, or correctly. TWC won't even look into the system to see if they have record of such work, stating my records only start a year ago and they have no way to check before that. I'm not sure if that means they didn't serve the home, or if they just won't bother. The only other service is from a local provider that gets as high as 5 meg.... wooo hooo. I doubt the previous owners had that service, as I saw their equipment when we did the walkthroughs. Rokus and such aren't going to do well with these speeds.

[JohnW248]

Don't know if you can get TWC to do this or not, but as a test you could run a cable from the drop to the house and by pass the underground piece. If that solves the problem then you know where it is. Coax is really funny stuff and a pierce or squeeze can cause the equivalent of a dip filter in the line. Sometimes a dead short will only show up as certain frequencies. If the got out there when you were having the problems and did a full spectrum scan they'd be able to see the issue. BUT whether they'd fix it or not I don't know.

But a surface replacement as a test would certainly help you in determining the problem.

[FWIW, Ohio seems to be the state that takes the longest for the card authorizations to go through from Buffalo. No one really knows why but the network connection from NY to Ohio takes the longest to complete.]

[cKuR6]

hahaha, that is really odd on the NY to OH deal. Must be a pierce or squeeze in the line. ; )~

TWC somehow arrives hours after it fixes itself.... ev er eeeee time.....
Good idea on the surface run, I will ask. I know one of the guys that has come out would let me do it. I have plenty of extra cable.

I watched Live tv for awhile last night. Only one instance of picture degradation, which quickly resolved. I did have a completely black recording 6/16. Everything since, seems ok.

What I am going to test:
Hypothesis: Could heat / humidity on the tuner have something to do with this?
Test: Move from utility closest to media cabinet. It would involve extending the run about 10ft, but would move the tuner to a very cool / dry area. Back to how the utility closet was until a couple weeks ago.
Other data: Just this week, I started tuning live TV. I finally caught up on all shows that are now on break, which means this could be a 2-3 wk old issue. Only current recordings are 10-11 & 11-12 or later shows, which are during cooler conditions times.....

My son rebooted the system for me and I see he wedged the line from the splitter to one of the MoCA devices, in the utility door......
Replace line to see if something with that line has introduced the problems.

Other than the above, nothing has changed but the weather outside is frightful......

[cKuR6]

unwatchable again today. had some time to replace the potentially damaged line. no change.
plugged back in a +8 amp. Tv is watchable again. SNR jumped back up for awhile but is slowly dropping.
Before changes:

after amp and a couple hours:

[JohnW248]

You know all those numbers look good. All those channels should be watchable and if they're not then something else is going on post tuner.

Start a test with just one tuner to a switch that has just the tuner and ONE computer connected, no internet, no other computers and see what the pictures look like and how the SNR behaves.

You mentioned MoCA I think at one point, do you have MoCA filters?

[cKuR6]

Yes, in the old thread, we've worked through all that. MoCA is not even on the same network as the tuner. See post #43.
I know for a normal system, these signals are within spec. From day one, anything above or below +-1, or below 39 SNR, becomes very glitchy on my system. We worked through all the normal things I believe you are about to get into, and none of them changed the situation. Getting the signal into the above ranges, created flawless and beautiful images.

The issues are seen on recordings as well. repeatable across devices, so it is in the tuner / receipt of the signal, not hosting of the data. If I can replay the same pixelations, it is not in the network.

[JohnW248]

Very true, once you have the problem and its recorded in then it's the tuner or from the tuner to the host. Try the isolation. I just helped a friend today that lost internet on TWC and was on the third modem. It would work when she got the new modem but would go out at 9:30 in the morning. Yesterday it came back at 5pM and out today at 9:30.

Had the tech out while it was down and there was no up stream connection. He went back to the pole and found a squirrel had chewed on the coax and there was a pierce through the insulation. Then we had some rain a few weeks ago and there was some corrosion. Depending on atmospherics the upstream would degrade and the modem would go off line.

I only mention this because there are lots of variables and RF on Coax can be a bit like magic.

The other thing to check are channels from various QAM tanks. The ones you show all seem to be from upper frequencies. Internet upstream and TA upstream is low end (15mH for TA, 20-45mH for internet, downstream was 600mH and down. In between TW services. Here Epix is at 597mH, TCM at 189 mH, Fox news at 483, PBS at 225mH. Now with QAM there are many more channels on those SAME frequencies with different program numbers so you need to see if the problem falls into one part of the spectrum. SNR can go down with internal wiring. I have one channel which when tuned close to the drop has SNR 40 dB but with the run to the office the same channel will be down about 4 dBmV and the SNR will drop to 34.5 dB---all that is wire run, splitters/connectors. The amp has been pulled out for now.

In the isolation set-up if the SNR starts to degrade, then you need to look ahead of the tuner, if it doesn't then there is a problem with the rest of the network. The theory is strip it down to where it works and then add back until it fails and you should find the problem.

Since the temp cable by-passing the underground didn't make any difference, the problem is before or after that section. If you could run a cable from the curb to the tuner, that would prove if the problem is yours or their issue. It could be on the cable ahead of your connection--like the squirrel issue.

[cKuR6]

If I implied we tried replacing the outside cable, I was in error. I replaced an inside cable. I'm going to set up an appt for TWC next week. Don't have time this week to deal with their windows and mucking everything up. They keep sending techs clueless about cable cards, who experiment, then depart leaving me to put everything back how it was. One time, they left with my signals in the +50 ranges and extra wires run all over the place.......

The tuner is about 3 ft from where the the line enters the house. The wire into the house is about 20-25 ft from the box, which is actually in my backyard. So I don't think the length of run issues would apply here.

I think my practices (coaching baseball) will be cx'd tonight. If so, and work doesn't continue to go as it has thus far this a.m., then I'll remove the internet from the mix and try the isolation deal tonight. I'm just confused as to how internet can be an issue, since the tuner is already isolated.

I'll try to do some more signal research as well. Digging into some of the items Crash mentions in the old thread. I watched some recent recordings and some live tv last eve, all was well. Only one or two picture issues, which quickly resolved. Seems the system is ok with a hot signal now. Last year it refused anything outside of the aforementioned +-1.

[Crash2009]

the weather outside is frightful......

I didn't think you were old enough to know those lyrics.

[cKuR6]

it's a classic, and I enjoy all music, well most of it. plus, i waited tables while in school and this was an hourly muzak tune......

[JohnW248]

The story about the internet was just a tale about how coax RF problems can be undetected until they hit. In the case I mentioned, TV and the TAs were working, it was just upstream that went out. Since TA upstream is at 15mH, that means that the problem was a dip between 20 and 50 mH which is outside tv service.

So the point is, since you have everything settle down, I'd be looking for coax damage somewhere outside. A shield puncture (and they use QAUD shield cable, can allow an intrusion. If that "hole" is near where you favorite cop Officer Krupkie parks, his radio could be causing trouble. Also there are known issues with cable and aviation communications. The fact you can watch the SNR go down sounds to me like an intrusion beat frequency coming in. But to know that you need someone with the right tools monitoring at the right time. If you can, get a repair team "LEAD" to come out or better yet a repair supervisor. If you can, find out from level three what's going on with your node (they know where it is and can read it remotely) when you're having problems. As you know, everything is fiber to the node and there it gets converted to copper and RF, the node also handles getting the SDV channel and purring it on the coax. When you get an SDV channel, its available to everyone on your node and appears in the carousel--your TA knows what's on that carousel and can get those channels without a headend request.

But I think your problem is most likely on the coax from the drop that feeds normally four homes and not from the node to the coax. Otherwise there would be a lot more people with problems in your area.

[Crash2009]

John, when you said "Officer Krupkie", Were you referring to those special trucks that drive down the street looking for loss. I heard that there is some FCC rule that they have to monitor their loss's and repair them.

What is the technical term for the vehicle, and the process they use to detect loss, while driving down the street?

BTW, I agree, with your idea to run a temporary overland coax run from the pole to the house. I have some loooong Cat5e's that I use here in the house when troubleshooting network problems. Saves having to move equipment to the bench.

[JohnW248]

John, when you said "Officer Krupkie", Were you referring to those special trucks that drive down the street looking for loss. I heard that there is some FCC rule that they have to monitor their loss's and repair them.

What is the technical term for the vehicle, and the process they use to detect loss, while driving down the street?
.

Sorry, you guys were making music references. Officer Krupkie is West Side Story.....

Not sure what the RF trucks are called, but they've been around for years (they originally were used to triangulate on illegal broadcast stations). At one point they were used to read the IF radiation off a domestic TV to determine what channel was being watched for ratings purposes (although that got shot down pretty quick) the British Post Office used them to find "unlicensed" tv sets and issue fines. Cable systems are required to keep their distribution tight and no broadcast and there are a number of "sensitive" frequencies in aviation and law enforcement and fire department communications. Since a cable system is basically using 5 mH to 1000 mH they could cause a lot of trouble with an open bleed. And by contrast a Ham Radio operator close to an open cable can cause a lot of trouble for people downstream of him as well.

This is sounding like an RF issue to me, just where the problem is has to be determined so it can be repaired. That's why the weather change was so interesting, because if there is any cable issue, weather can be an issue since the coax will start acting like an active filter. Folds, pinches, nails, bad connectors, all can cause problems.

[Crash2009]

Sorry, you guys were making music references. Officer Krupkie is West Side Story.....

I heard of it before but must have not attended. Now I have a reason to go.

[cKuR6]

Very interesting information. I have family in for the holiday, so It'll probably not be looked at by TWC (short of a complete loss of signal), for a couple weeks. I'll keep screen grabbing and watching.

I'm interested in the air traffic interference. If I had a major league arm, I could hit the planes under carriage from my deck. We are directly in the flight line for one of the runways. 10-15 miles from the airport though.

[JohnW248]

Those airplanes are coming in on transponders that are within the bands used by the cable company. You might have a leak in your system that is getting that as a "jamming" signal; must less likely that your cable is radiating anything that causes any problems for the planes. But 10-15 miles is well within the approach path.

Remember: "RF is magic when you don't know all the factors involved."

Just another reason do to the isolation test with cable from outside directly to the tuner to one computer---eliminates all other possible "antennas".

[cKuR6]

Signal issues returned with the third round of season change weather. . . .

TWC finally heard the weather related claim and replaced the line. My signals were completely different, and I did not require an amp. However, my modem started to randomly lose connection. Orange light on DS or orange on all. Since we watch recordings, I only noticed because majikcrap (<- wife's term, I myself can deal with a reboot for that low cost) kept dying. So TWC returned again. This time they checked the neighbors line, since there was no longer any way to blame my eq..... and sure enough, there was terrible noise coming from the line into the neighbors house..... tech said he had multiple other calls in the neighborhood. Neighbor would not let him in, so he disconnected them. Other than the bi-weekly reboots required on the tuner/adapter, my signals have not degraded.

Not sure it'll be of any assistance with M$ seemingly killing HTPC through it, but if anyone ever runs into these issues, don't let your tech be lazy. They've always stopped at the line into the house and claimed it was something inside. Walk with them, know your wiring, and sooner or later the noise on their screen will either go away and you'll find your trouble, or the noise will continue from before your line and you'll be all set to cry for a refund for a years pain. Not that you'll get one from the TWC monopoly (only choice in my area other than satellite), but you can try.....

Thanks again for everyone who chipped in ideas on my threads..... hopefully the new line and neighbors findings kill this one.

[Crash2009]

We definitely eliminated the inside at least twice.

Prompted me to get an education on MoCA..... Thanks

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... ilit=+moca