InfiniTV4 PCIe -"Unable to get channel map" ?

[adam1991]

You know, in the past I've asked about that. They told me that the STBs are completely different, even though we're both staring at a carbleCARD snugged into the back of it (with a strap screwed over it).

That being said, I asked again today--and he never tried it.

Monday is a new day, with a specialist and a stack of cards.

[STC]

Nasty. Sorry to hear you're still knee deep.

[bmiklosey]

Adam, it would be helpful to know how similar our configurations are, since we seem to be both struggling, even though we are dealing with different providers (I'm with Comcast).
PC - Intel i7 processor
Windows - Ultimate 64-bit
Ceton InfiniTV4 tuner card
CableCARD - Model PKM801

I've been on the phone with Comcast for over 3 hours tonight. It took that long to successfully pair one of my cards. They are a mess internally, that's all I can say. In Ceton Diagnostics, I was not getting CP authorization. My suspicion is how Comcast is identifying my card. Sometimes they would not ask for my CableCARD ID and the agent would tell me it wasn't necessary. Finally, I got someone that captured my card SN, host ID, and CableCARD ID, and now Steps 1-7 all have green checkmarks. Step 8 has a blue circle with a question make in it (information needed icon I assume).

So the good news is that I believe my hardware is once again successfully paired. But I'm still dealing with the same issue> No channel map. Here is a key symptom I noticed: when setting up the TV signal in WMC and after the activation step, the 'downloading TV signal' is happening in about a second, like a blip. With 500+ channels, this step usually takes much longer, so it seems like there is a software issue somewhere between the card's firmware and Comcast that believes the TV signal has been successfully loaded. I have ZERO channels still, all since clearing the channel map in the Ceton web page. I did this based on Ceton's instructions and they have yet to call me about this. Their only response is to try a different cable card. I have 4, and it took over 3 hours on the phone with Comcast to get one paired. There has to be an expert amongst our population. I can only hope, as I approach a full month with mapping issues....

[JohnW248]

OK, another cable guy is here. We're trying yet another card.

InfiniTV diagnostic tool shows inserted and paired, and shows "channel list received," (?) but no OOB lock and no auth/validation. Channel auth test says "channel number 219 is clear. Please enter a premium or hd chanel number to test entitlement." Problem is, 219 is an HD channel. It's saying this about ALL channels.

I think the terminology might be a bit confusing here so what you need to check (and they should check are the following:
DAVIC shows OOB
Cisco CableCARD(tm)
Network Interface-DAVIC
Host Type: One-Way
FDC Status
Frequency: 74500 kHz
Data Rate: 1.544 Mbps
RS Corr Err: 0
RS Uncorr Err: 0
Status: Locked

When the card is authorized you'll see:
Cisco CableCARD(tm)
In order to start service for
this device please call
Ph: (855) 286-1736


CableCARD ID:0-011-449-149-118

Host ID:0-570-000-375-107

Type:One-Way Authorization Received

Of course the host ID and Card ID are from one of my tuners but if you don't have Authorization Received the card IS NOT paired

Then there is staging:
Cisco CableCARD(tm)
Conditional Access Details

System Id: 0x0E00
Status: Ready >>>>>> This indicates that the card serial number is in their database and valid
Internal Secure Micro Serial No:
02:08:00:52:F2:28
Secure Micro Software Ver:
3.14
CA Time:
Sun Apr 5 2015, 12:38:00 AM GMT
Time GBAM: 51287
App GBAM: 0
Purchase GBAM: 0
EMMs Processed: 4 >>>>>> This indicates that the headend is communicating entitlement messages to your card

And Finally Copy Protection:

Copy Protection Information

Auth Status: CP Auth Received >>>>> this is the tricky part and you card HAS TO HAVE OOB to get this
Info for pgm index 0-5
[LTSID - PN - CCI - ERR ]
0x4 - 0x2a - 0x2 - 0x0
0x5 - 0x88f - 0x2 - 0x0
0x7 - 0x12d - 0x0 - 0x0
0x8 - 0x13b - 0x0 - 0x0
0x6 - 0x88f - 0x2 - 0x0
0x9 - 0x12e - 0x0 - 0x0
0x0 - 0x0 - 0x0 - 0x0
0x0 - 0x0 - 0x0 - 0x0

Copy Protection Info Page 2
Cisco CableCARD(tm)
Copy Protection Info Page 2

MKS Period: 600 seconds >>>this normally starts at 360 seconds until authorized then its every 10 minutes
VerifyKey Status: OK >>>>> this indicates that the card can decrypt
Refresh Status: OK
Refresh count: 1542
N_Host timeouts: 0
Sync Cnf timeouts: 0
CP-CA Control bits: 0x00

If you don't have OOB then the card will not work properly. You'll get clearQAM but in your case you're not getting a channel map and media center uses that to line-up the guide data.

What you have to determine is if the problem is with the incoming signal or a problem with the OOB Modem in the tuner. The easiest way is at STC Suggested to hook up a STB authorized and see if it get a signal. You cannot take a cableCARD out of a STB and use it in the tuner since it will immediately be bricked as stolen since the host ID and card ID won't match and they were put into the system as a pair. In fact they can put a whole pallet of STB into the system with a barcode scanner before they pass them out to the subscribers.

With your next tech you need to find out if your getting the OOB frequency at the connection point to your tuner, if you are then you need to talk to customer support for the tuner. (It is not beyond the range of possibility that they are doing something with the OOB frequency that the tuner doesn't see. When you first put in the cableCARD, if you scroll down on the Web Gui to the bottom on the cableCARD tab, there is a section for the OOB frequency. You'll see it keep trying different frequencies until it finds a lock. Here my OOB is 74.500 MHz, it is locked and the OOB MER is 35/10

So check the bottom of the cableCARD tab page on the web gui.

[adam1991]

We're stuck at getting OOB lock, and therefore I'm not getting authorization.

I'm concerned about the tuner suddenly going bad. I've sent diagnostics to Ceton, but they're not worried about that. So that's where I'm stuck. Either the tuner went bad, or WOW did something to their system that breaks cableCARD auth.

My first tech did check frequencies and he determined that OOB was getting here properly. My inside guy at WOW, a guy who hangs out at DSL Reports, confirmed that "the channel map comes to the cable card via the BFS QAM channel, with is EIA 104, or 705MHz in yoiur area". That's all I know. But when I hit the Network Interface DAVIC screen, which is where OOB lock shows, it cycles between 75MHz and 105MHz (I think) in steps of 250kHz.

I absolutely will have the next guy verify the OOB frequency.

The Ceton diagnostic tool is very clear: the card is inserted, it's valid, and it's paired--but it's not...wait a minute, I just flipped over to the Ceton diagnostic and NOW it's showing OOB lock....wait, now it's not. It looks like the OOB frequency keeps cycling. My OOB MER is 6 db/10.

And I will force the issue of having him bring in a cable box to verify it on their equipment. If it works on their equipment, would that point to my tuner going bad?

Thanks for all your help.

[JohnW248]

The OOB signal is handled by a different part of the card and it isn't a tuner it's a cable modem. Last summer when TWC was rebuilding here to go all digital I had a six tuner PCIe card that just suddenly stop locking. Ceton said to get another cableCARD which I did and it didn't lock as well. I put in an old PCIe 4 card and it did lock but lower than the 35db (around 25db as I recall) but it worked. I sent the 6 tuner card back to Ceton and it worked just fine there. We swapped out cards both cable and tuner and always went back to the PCIe 4 to work.

That was July 26 2014, then in late August I tried it again on a whim and IT LOCKED. I had all sorts of techs out, we checked the signal at the pole, at the house, at the tuner, etc and they could find nothing wrong. But there was something wrong and it finally got fixed!!! So you might have a signal but there might be something in the modulation that is screwing up the tuner---don't know because if TWC did find out what was wrong they never told me.

So if this was a sudden issue, inquire if they are doing inside work on the headend---if they are that might be where you problem lies. The STB are very tolerant of OOB signal quality but Ceton has to adhere to the strict Cable Labs rules to get certified where as the STB doesn't have to be tested anywhere except at Cisco.

Ceton has contacts with a lot of cable companies and perhaps they can explore the issue a bit more.

BTW does your card show "waiting for CA stream" on the conditional access screen and also not show time? Both those come in as soon as the card locks even if it isn't paired.

[adam1991]

On the CA page I get Status: not staged and CA Time: waiting for update.

The card is paired with the tuner, according to the Ceton diagnostic utility, but no OOB lock. The card is inserted, valid, and paired--but not OOB locked, not receiving messages, not rec'd CP Auth, and not rec'd validation signal.

I am equally concerned, with the (lack of) information I have now, that the issue could be either my tuner or their headend. And I don't know how, beyond what you describe--"ask them if they're doing any work internally"--to validate this either way.

I guess I could go to Micro Center and pick up a Ceton USB tuner, and try that with the cable guy.

[JohnW248]

For terminology, your card isn't paired with the tuner and further more the card serial number doesn't appear in the digital control network (not staged) but that might be due to the lock of OOB reception not just lock. I don't know where it says the card is paired but go to the web gui and look at the cableCARD tab. If it is paired it will say:

Validated, validation message is received, authenticated, and the IDs match those in the current binding

That's what is important. Notice they use Validated and not Paired. Validation message received means on the host screen you get the Aurthorization Received message.

There can be other reasons for OOB loss but that should have been detected before now. That 74.500 or whatever Comcast is using is in the middle of the FM band and rather easy to get. However if they put an "FM" trap in the line, it would prevent that signal from getting to the card. This used to be done in the NTSC days since the FM band was inbetween channel 6 & 7 as I recall...there was a big frequency spectrum jump between low VHF and high VHF. But again the tech should have determined that with the first spectrum scan.

If you can get a USB tuner and have a cableCARD, if you just plug it in, attach a coax and plug in a cableCARD it will get OOB without any tech intervention if it doesn't then there is a signal issue. Might be your quickest test and if doesn't work you can take it back and try a SD Prime which will mean new drivers but if both those fail there is something in the OOB signal that they're now sending out. And make sure you use a multi stream "M" card and it doesn't matter if it says Scientific Atlanta or Cisco on the label and should be an 800, 802 or 803 card.

[adam1991]

The cableCARD tab says:

Not Validated, Binding Authentication Complete, Validation Message not received yet

And here is what the Ceton utility shows:

I'm sure the card is a multistream card; I will check it to see what it says.

Yeah, I can try the USB tuner route. And I can try the HDHR Prime route, too; they're both at Micro Center.

[JohnW248]

Yea that doesn't show the card as paired, it say "to pair this card call your cable company with this information" But as you know that doesn't do any good since its not receiving any OOB signal. If either of the other tuners works that might indicate that there is something wrong with this card, BUT when it happened here it stopped working and then started again with no wiring changes, no changes at all, it just started working which to me pointed to the cable company.

Its unfortunate but most of what goes on in the conditional access and copy protection is secret so we know what's in the signal but not what the signal looks like.

If you're interested you can down load the OpenCable Specifications for CableCARD Copy Protection 2.0 Specification OC-SP-CCCP2.0-I13-130418 from Cable Labs

[bmiklosey]

Your card is definitely not successfully paired. It also indicates that you're not receiving messages although you have channels. Interesting.
Update on my side: I now have some channels back, but not local. Just basic HD channels like History and TBS. It's a very odd issue I'm having here, and I have to believe it points to software with their channel map.
If anyone here can offer insight to why I might get some channels and not all, AND it possibly being a hardware issue on my side, please share. Thank you.

[JohnW248]

I wonder if you and Adam are close to each other, this sound like Comcast is having internal problems with their Digital Control Network along with CSR support that hasn't been trained on cableCARDS. Try and escalate your case to get someone who knows about the cards. Also save yourself trouble and stick with the card that is paired and check the web gui on the tuner which has more information than the Ceton Dia that just pulls information from the web gui.

[JoeB99]

Adam I'll reply to you here since your're not updating your thread over at DSLReports.

My reply from DSLReports:
I doubt it's an issue with the card itself. When using either a Motorola or Cisco(SA) CableCARD, the host will always lock onto the OOB channel. You could even buy a cablecard off ebay, throw it into the device and it will find and lock onto the OOB frequency. It has nothing to do with provisioning. It looks like you have a signal problem.

As far as provisioning, if you're looking at the Ceton tool, Line 7 refers to the card activation (authorization). If the card is activated, it would say the CableCARD is validated (meaning you would be able to receive any low-value i.e. non copy-protected channels). Line 6 refers to the card pairing. If the card is paired, it would say CableCARD got CP Auth (meaning you can view high-value AKA copy-protected channels). The Ceton tool will always say "To pair your CableCARD, call your cable company and provide this information to them", regardless of the card being truly paired or not.

The issue though is still the OOB channel not being locked and receiving messages. This is a source issue.

[adam1991]

Thanks very much. I have a few things going on in my life right now, so it's going a bit slowly on this. The cableco kind of left it in limbo; they gave me the phone number for a senior tech, and I didn't get around to calling him until after 5 today. I left him a message and hope to talk with him tomorrow and set up a time for him to come out, bring some cards, and bring some advanced tools to evaluate this.

Until then, I have no cable TV. Fortunately, I did get OTA up and running on Friday--so I'm not 100% out of it here. Still and all, my intent regardless is to chase this thing down.

John and Joe, you're being of tremendous help here. Joe, I'll head over to dslreports and check in. Thanks to both of you.

[STC]

Mega long shot:

Are you running the latest 15.1.13.152 beta FW?
-Improve ability to lock OOB signal in a poor signal environment

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... =68&t=8352

[adam1991]

No, I'm not! I generally stay away from beta stuff on the HTPC. The tuner says it's up to date, although I haven't updated it in forever...

[STC]

Perhaps worth a try? You can always downgrade back in the future.
If your Head End has twiddled with something that has caused degradation in OOB signal, it may help. As I said long shot!

[JohnW248]

No, I'm not! I generally stay away from beta stuff on the HTPC. The tuner says it's up to date, although I haven't updated it in forever...

If the tech can get a signal on your OOB, then its worth a try with the latest FW. I still see it scroll through before it locks but it does lock. You can always back down to the previous FW if you have it downloaded on your PC. This update requires you to download the FW and then use the Web Gui on the main system tab to upload the fw and then do a full power off not a restart and start up again. Just make sure you've got the previous version ALSO saved on your computer first (look at the links on the FW update to get the download links from Ceton's server).

[adam1991]

Cable guy is here, has been for an hour or so.

I have asked about STB; specifically, if STB won't work then that will tell us something. He hasn't gone down that route yet; he's on the phone with his support people.

The woman on his support line is trying all sorts of things; something I've heard is "adding packages". Whatever she's doing, we've seen the OOB lock go green several times now--but then a minute or three later it goes red. At no time do I see that it's receiving messages or CP Auth or validation signal.

We're getting farther than I did earlier, though. There we go, OOB locked again. It's getting more frequent. And....half a minute later it's off.

[adam1991]

Hmmmmmm, here's a random thought: could Malware Bytes be interfering with OOB lock in any way, shape, or form?

As I mentioned above, we're now to the point of getting occasional OOB lock that goes away after a minute or so, with no messages or validation or channel map coming down.