Tivo vs WMC Discussion

[adam1991]

Wait...so let me get this straight.

I already knew that if I was to buy into the system I would need a Roamio Plus DVR + Lifetime subscription (as I wouldn't waste my time with monthly unless I planned on doing rolling upgrades...)
Then I planned on purchasing several Tivo Mini's as extenders to replace my WMC system...

But what I read here is that for every Tivo Mini I add to the system I then also have to pay a monthly subscription fee or the big ol' lifetime service for EACH one? So if I buy 4 Tivo Mini's I end up with either $60 monthly subscription fee or have to pay $150x4 + $499x4 (for lifetime sub)???

If that is the case then that means I may keep putting off switching systems

Last I saw the Minis didn't come with lifetime; they had a service component to them.

But their service component was not the same price as the main Tivo. It was something like five bucks a month, or $100 lifetime or something. I forget.

But I see that service is now included with the Minis. Nice of them to acknowledge the reality of dropping the price.

A $50 OTA -only Tivo looks great, until you want to spread that to 3 other TVs in the house. Then it's a $515 setup. Oh, well, that's still far better than what it was.

But I can't find lifetime service anymore.

[STC]

^

Minis are $149.99

Includes Product Lifetime service!

[Ed]

^

Minis are $149.99

Includes Product Lifetime service!

I swear...... it's like he's trying to say something.

So how much is the lifetime in addition to buying the minis again guys?

[STC]

That was a quick paste from TiVos website.

$149.99 includes Lifetime service in case you were unsure.

[mdavej]

I just picked up a couple of refurb Minis myself on a Woot deal for $69 each. They work great and do indeed include lifetime service for free as do all Minis now. The street price for Minis at Amazon is $120 for the old version and $135 for the new (see below). I'd picked up some from Amazon a few weeks ago for just $99. I guess demand is up a little due to the current sale, sending Mini prices back up.

There are 2 different models of Minis available at the moment, the old v1 and newer v2 which includes RF remote support. You can add RF to a v1 with a USB dongle though, which I've done in a couple of cases. I got a couple of Slide Pro remotes on ebay which came with dongles. The Roamio doesn't need a dongle, so its remote can be moved to a Mini and use the Slide Pro dongle, which is basically a free RF upgrade for a v1 Mini.

I also just jumped on the $50 Roamio plus $250 lifetime deal posted earlier. I'm very happy with it so far. That's on par with the cost of my current WMC based system.

[STC]

mdavej - what about your cable TV picture quality, any differences to WMC?

[adam1991]

^

Minis are $149.99

Includes Product Lifetime service!

But how much is Roamio lifetime service?

They're pushing the $15/month service, and pushing that it includes warranty, but either they've hidden the Roamio lifetime service option very well, or else they're not offering it anymore.

[STC]

2
Choose your TiVo service plan
Why do I need a service plan?
✓ selected
Monthly service
$14.99

1-year commitment; $14.99 month-to-month thereafter

NEW! Includes TiVo Continual Care warranty

select
Annual service
$149.99

Make one payment a year - averages out to just $12.50 a month!

NEW! Includes TiVo Continual Care warranty
select
Product Lifetime service
$499.99

[adam1991]

AHA! Roamio OTA does NOT have a lifetime service option. Roamio OTA has ONLY monthly service--not even a yearly option.

The $500 lifetime option is available ONLY by spending ANOTHER $150 on a Roamio that can also take cable input, which I don't have.

So for OTA, the lifetime service comes out to $650--not $500.

Total for one main TV plus three satellite TVs and lifetime Tivo service: $1150. Plus tax.

And for that, I don't even get commercial skip.

[STC]

AHA! You appear to be correct for the OTA. Sneaky folks.
That's why it's so cheap. They're stinging you with monthlies.


/edit: the next model up renewed is $50 with $250 lifetime, that's not bad...

[mdavej]

Yep. Just get the $50 renewed Roamio. It does OTA AND cable. $300 out the door. Add $100 each for Minis (if you shop around).

Use kmttg to strip out the commercials if you don't want to press a button on a remote.

STC, I see no difference in PQ between my Tivo and WMC, although I couldn't do a side-by-side comparison. However, I did have issues initially with stuttering and tearing. Swapping out my HDMI cable fixed that. Could your signal strength have been marginal to begin with, good enough for your old tuner but not enough for Tivo?

Netflix PQ is especially good since Tivo is one of the few devices that gives you native 1080p24.

[adam1991]

It's not that I don't want to "press a button" on the remote (which I don't, actually). It's that I don't want to press-press-press-press-press-press-press WHOOPS back-back-back-back all the time.

I know that commercial skip exists and works. I refuse to have anything less. I've had it for, oh, since the ReplayTV days--for me that's 11 years now. Anything else is moving backwards.

In fact, I'd rather not watch TV at all, and just watch Netflix and Hulu. I can tolerate the Hulu 15 to 30 second spots. I can't tolerate what modern day broadcast TV has turned the airwaves into. Skipping commercials is the only way to go.

Just get the $50 renewed Roamio. It does OTA AND cable. $300 out the door.

Got a link for the half price lifetime service?

[STC]

Link-o-matic v2
https://www.tivo.com/shop/promo/supersavings

kmttg isn't really a good solution for commercial skipping IMO.

[adam1991]

agreed on kmttg. The right way is to MARK what you think the commercial start/end is, and have playback software optionally use that information. But should that information be faulty, give the user a way to tell the playback software not to use the information and instead simply play the show back.

Actually cutting what you think the commercial is, is like blindfolding your heart surgeon.

[STC]

It's the requirement to copy the shows to a third party box, hack the footage hopefully removing the right bits, sew it up and send it back to the TiVo for playback.

A delayed and time consuming process.

[mdavej]

I guess if the 3rd party comm skip tool for TiVo has to work exactly the same as the 3rd party comm skip tool for WMC, then you'll have to stick with WMC forever.

I like skipping commercials as much as anyone. I loved it on my Dish Hopper. But I never implemented it on WMC. It doesn't bother me to press one button that does a 6 30-sec skip macro, then go fwd or back a little as needed. The other automated solutions simply aren't worth the effort to me. I actually enjoy some commercials. That's the only reason I even watch the Super Bowl.

Other things are more important to me, like having robust, trouble-free hardware and software, accurate and complete guide data, full resolution and fully functional Netflix, no monthly required reboots, unified search, etc.

[adam1991]

Until the recent guide snafu, I managed to achieve all of that plus commercial skip--using the right tool for the job. (And even with that, my guide service itself never faltered--I automatically got the Rovi stuff. But its quality suffers compared to before.)

I let WMC record and play back TV, and I let Roku deliver me the rest.

The right tool for the job. Not a compromise tool. The right tool.

[STC]

I guess if the 3rd party comm skip tool for TiVo has to work exactly the same as the 3rd party comm skip tool for WMC, then you'll have to stick with WMC forever.

As you know the skip tools used on WMC recording can be used on the same hardware without the need to push the files around and chop them up. I use live detection, which is fantastic.
That's a huge difference. Plus there really is no comparison to having to skip manually in 30 second increments IMO.

That aside, I am a TiVo Roamio wannabe. I love how the TiVo infrastructure mechanics work and everything ties in together, I just wish the TV PQ was better in my enviro.

[adam1991]

Agreed. It's a night and day difference.

To dismiss it by saying "well, if you have to have it work EXACTLY the same way..." is ridiculous. The two concepts have nothing in common. One has to shove the entire file around from machine to machine, and actually cuts program material out--and good luck if it doesn't do it right.

The other works on the same machine with the existing file, and simply marks where it thinks commercials are--leaving the content COMPLETELY alone, for you to do whatever you like with it including watching it with the commercials, if you like them OR if the commercial detection algorithm screwed up.

So "commercial skip" on Tivo really isn't. Just because someone decided to declare it so, is meaningless. I can declare an apple to be an orange, too--and I guess in this day and age of internet blogging and discussion, if I declare something, it is de facto the new truth and anyone who dares to challenge me must die a horrible death.

[STC]

Each to their own. I value com skip but would go without if push came to shove and enjoy the other benefits Roamio brings.