Harmony delay - acceptable ?

[wally007]

hello,

This Christmas I bought Logitech Touch (Ultimate one), just remote without the hub (I will not use the remote for nothing other than HTPC and turning on/off TV)

To my surprise, remote is much slower than 20 Euro cheap MCE Remote. If I press a button (VolumeUP for example) it takes about half a second (500ms) for Volume to turn up.
When I'm using MCE Remote there's maybe 100 - 200ms delay max. I'm using same IR MCE receiver (I have official Microsoft IR/Remote bundle)

Using Harmony Touch it feels like I've made a huge step back in responsiveness of my HTPC. I've tried number of Delay options and while it does improve long presses and repeated presses, it does not address the delay to each key press.

Is this something you guys are used to ? I can not believe that this is a normal behavior, as HTPC feel incredibly slow when using Harmony. HTPC is i7 3.4Ghz Haswell quadcore with 16GB ram, Samsung 850Pro SSD and this remote makes it feel like a frigging Pentium.

[Mountainbreeze]

This may be the case across the entire Harmony line as I have the low end Harmony 300 and it has the same slow response. With a cheap WMC remote, I can press the skip forward 5 times in succession and the show will quickly skip 2.5 minutes. With the Harmony, it is noticeably slower. I got used to it but I still hate it.

[mdavej]

I never got used to it. I use Xsight Touch which is a very cheap ($38 on ebay + $15 for the RF base),RF remote with instant response. It's about equivalent to the old Harmony 900 but far more programmable.

There are some workarounds you could try. Entering a number followed by skip will skip that number of times without having to press skip several times in succession.

[RyC]

Harmony One has the same problem. I just got used to it.

[mcewinter]

Harmony One has the same problem. I just got used to it.

Same here.

[crawfish]

This may be the case across the entire Harmony line as I have the low end Harmony 300 and it has the same slow response. With a cheap WMC remote, I can press the skip forward 5 times in succession and the show will quickly skip 2.5 minutes. With the Harmony, it is noticeably slower. I got used to it but I still hate it.

From my Autohotkey MediaCenter.txt module:

Code: Select all

^+F18:: ; cus6
	ModWait()
	send 230^+f ; Commercial Small Step Forward (2.5 minutes)
	return
^+F19:: ; cus7
	ModWait()
	send 400^+f ; Commercial Big Step Forward (4 minutes)
	return

These commands are bound to buttons on my Sony RM-VL610 remote. They are instantaneous

[wally007]

This is very sad. Family is not very happy about this so i am looking for new universal remote. Does anyone know of one that is supported and responsive ?

[mdavej]

This is very sad. Family is not very happy about this so i am looking for new universal remote. Does anyone know of one that is supported and responsive ?

Post #3, Xsight Color, OARUSB04G or Inteset INT-422. All are excellent, affordable, PC programmable universal remotes with instant response and macros (activities). Most any cheap universal will respond instantly (URC WR7, Sony, Philips, GE, RCA, etc.). I really like JP1 remotes too since you can do some very cool things, like make a short press of skip fwd do one skip or long press do several skips (5 commands per button).

[wally007]

Thanks for the suggestions but they're all really ugly looking. I bought Harmony because the design was more up to date than standard MCE remote, but the ones suggested are even worse.

I do not need keypad and 100 other buttons....

In the end, I'm going to experiment. I bought Flirc and Xbox One remote. The Remote is back lit, very simple design and should be able to control PC and Xbox one(obviously). I will have to find a way to control the TV-Input or I will just run PC via HDMI-IN on Xbox One.

[mdavej]

Well you didi ask for Universal, which needs lots of buttons to do lots of things. And I can't guess what kind of taste you have or what your requirements are. The main one I posted is $17, for the same functionality of a $200 Harmony. The 04G is the Tivo peanut shape which is very popular and has very few buttons. yet can still control your TV.

If you like Harmony and don't want a num pad, then the Ultimate is for you. Very few MCE remotes can control a TV.

[Wilky13]

I have an older Harmony 890 and it sends commands quickly. You can set the command delay using the Harmony software on the PC.

[wally007]

I've tried number of setting to no avail .. obviously i didnt try all combinations to be 100% sure.

Could you please let me know your settings ?

[tad]

First, you need to change the inter-key delay on the harmony to the lowest possible value. This is the delay that the Harmony inserts between button presses.

Second, you need to reduce the number of repeats for each IR command to 1 or 0 (I believe the default is 3). This controls how many times an IR command is repeated when it is sent (in order to ensure that it is received). While this is a good thing (it makes it more likely that your commands aren't missed) it slows down responsiveness considerably. This option is available in the troubleshooting menu of the harmony software (I believe the option is something like "My TV is responding multiple times to a single button press")

[RyC]

Interesting, I think I tried changing the IR repeat (with no improvement) but maybe I changed it in the wrong direction. I'll give it a shot when I get home

[mdavej]

Changing repeats is not a panacea. Most devices expect at least 2 to get a complete signal. The duration of 2 or 3 repeats is only a few milliseconds. And the device will respond after the first repeat anyway. Changing repeats is needed only when a device is missing or doubling commands. It's not really helpful for speeding things up. It may appear that things speed up with the correct number of repeats since things generally just work smoother and more reliably. Interkey delay is the main thing you need to change. But even the lowest setting can't overcome the normal slowness of a Harmony.

To live with Harmony slowness, you have to change YOUR behavior, i.e., guide surfing rather than channel surfing, number plus skip (or sequences) versus multiple presses of skip, you get the idea.

[RyC]

Yeah I'm already used to the Harmony behavior so it's not a big deal. I tried changing the IR repeat to 0 and it seeeeeeems faster, but still not as fast as the Echo remote for example. Probably just the placebo effect haha.

[tad]

Changing repeats is not a panacea. Most devices expect at least 2 to get a complete signal. The duration of 2 or 3 repeats is only a few milliseconds. And the device will respond after the first repeat anyway. Changing repeats is needed only when a device is missing or doubling commands. It's not really helpful for speeding things up. It may appear that things speed up with the correct number of repeats since things generally just work smoother and more reliably. Interkey delay is the main thing you need to change. But even the lowest setting can't overcome the normal slowness of a Harmony.

To live with Harmony slowness, you have to change YOUR behavior, i.e., guide surfing rather than channel surfing, number plus skip (or sequences) versus multiple presses of skip, you get the idea.

I completely disagree. With respect to Media Center, using the Microsoft IR receiver, changing the repeats helps considerably. You will notice it most when you press and hold the up or down arrow keys when scrolling the guide. With the repeats set to 0 and the interkey delay turned down as far as possible, guide scrolling works as expected (smooth scrolling and the scrolling stops when you release the key). With repeats set to 2 or 3, scrolling continues for a not-insubstantial period of time after the key is released, and the LED at the top of the Harmony remote makes it clear that it is still blasting signals after the key is released. Try adjusting JUST your repeat value and you will see the difference.

You said "And the device will respond after the first repeat anyway" -- but that misses the point. The point isn't that Media Center is slow to respond, it's the slowness of the Harmony remote in actually sending the command (as indicated by the delayed illumination of the LED at the top of the remote after repeated button presses).

[tad]

Yeah I'm already used to the Harmony behavior so it's not a big deal. I tried changing the IR repeat to 0 and it seeeeeeems faster, but still not as fast as the Echo remote for example. Probably just the placebo effect haha.

Changing the repeats won't help with the speed of individual commands, only instances where you issue multiple commands in sequence (i.e., holding down a button). I've never been able to get my harmonys quite as fast as the original remotes -- but they are pretty good.

[RyC]

Yeah I tried holding down the navigation arrows to scroll through the recorded TV list. Whatever the case, yeah Harmony remotes are going to be slower.