InfiniTV Eth6 reporting CGMS flags following CC F/W update

[d00zah]

Long time lurker, and this site has always been helpful. 1st post so please be kind.

Been happily using my tuner for quite a while. On Nov. 4, Charter pushed a F/W update
to my SA/Cisco CC (V1.5.3). Since then, channels which had no copy protection in the past
now report:

""Copy Generation Management System - Analog: "One Copy" (0x02)""

which is odd because we just transitioned to ALL Digital, and 'Analog' seemed odd.

Googled the CGMS msg & found this post over at the SD forum:

http://www.silicondust.com/forum2/viewt ... 44&t=17770

which describes a bug/oversight in the v1.5.3 SA/Cisco CC F/W which only affects OCUR
CC tuners. The key points seem to be:

"Most likely your cable company has pushed our new firmware to the CableCARDs - a
known recent change by one vendor results in CCI = none (no response) rather than
CCI = 0 being returned from the card for copy-freely channels.

CCI = 0 means copy-freely.
CCI = none means no-information, CGMS detection kicks in."

and

"The CCI-none-CGMS rule only applies to OCUR devices (CableCARD to PC)... it
doesn't apply to STBs, TiVos, etc.

The CCI=0/none rule was changed in the common specification without the OCUR
specification being changed to match."

And not all channels manifest this, or at least not consistently. Has anyone else run into
this with their Ceton tuner? And does Ceton have anything to contribute?

Notes:

I was testing the latest beta F/W without issue until this CC upgrade.

Doesn't seem to affect LiveTV, but recorded shows with this flag seem to hang/pause
periodically, although it's really just a nuisance

[d00zah]

To follow up on my own post... per this thread:

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... GMS#p79226

SD has released a F/W which "now ignores the CGMS flags.".

[RyC]

My CC is on the same firmware. I'm getting several shows with CGMS-A flags as well. There's a beta firmware posted in this forum, but I haven't tried it yet to see if it fixes this.

[d00zah]

No such luck. Installed ceton_infinitv_beta_fw_14_10_3_163 on Sat Oct 18 16:05:11 2014. & it was going so well...

[adam1991]

This has been the talk of DSL Reports for some time now:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r294340 ... DRM-issues

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r296150 ... RM-solved-

[erkotz]

My CC is on the same firmware. I'm getting several shows with CGMS-A flags as well. There's a beta firmware posted in this forum, but I haven't tried it yet to see if it fixes this.

There is nothing to fix here, as everything is behaving as expected. CableLabs requires the InfiniTV to honor various forms of content protection, including CGMS and CCI. If the CCI is received, it overrides other forms of copy protection (so for instance, a channel with a CCI of 0x00 and a CGMS-A of 0x02 would end up Copy Freely).

Where this breaks down is CableLabs made a chance to the CableCARD specification allowing CableCARDs to not send the CCI on channels which are Copy Freely. Previously, a CCI was always sent for encrypted channels - even copy freely. When the CableCARD does not send the CCI, we are forced to fall back to the CGMS-A, which is going on here.

I filed a request with CableLabs about 4 months ago to change the OCUR specification so that we can assume the CCI is 0x00 if we do not receive one. There is no guarantee that this will be accepted, but I am hopeful that it will be. Until (if) that is accepted, that is the only way that we can change our behavior.

[RyC]

My CC is on the same firmware. I'm getting several shows with CGMS-A flags as well. There's a beta firmware posted in this forum, but I haven't tried it yet to see if it fixes this.

There is nothing to fix here, as everything is behaving as expected. CableLabs requires the InfiniTV to honor various forms of content protection, including CGMS and CCI. If the CCI is received, it overrides other forms of copy protection (so for instance, a channel with a CCI of 0x00 and a CGMS-A of 0x02 would end up Copy Freely).

Where this breaks down is CableLabs made a chance to the CableCARD specification allowing CableCARDs to not send the CCI on channels which are Copy Freely. Previously, a CCI was always sent for encrypted channels - even copy freely. When the CableCARD does not send the CCI, we are forced to fall back to the CGMS-A, which is going on here.

I filed a request with CableLabs about 4 months ago to change the OCUR specification so that we can assume the CCI is 0x00 if we do not receive one. There is no guarantee that this will be accepted, but I am hopeful that it will be. Until (if) that is accepted, that is the only way that we can change our behavior.

Gotcha, thanks for explaining. So is silicondust breaking the spec with that firmware that ignores CGMS flags then?

[d00zah]

Thanks for explaining. Seems the 'WOW' solution was to roll-back & lock pre-v1.5.3 F/W. Based on past experience, getting past Charter Tier1 support to even propose this seems unlikely. Beyond Tivo, they don't really acknowledge these alternate solutions. It was great while it lasted.

[d00zah]

erkotz, if you wouldn't mind clarifying a few things...

I've scanned all available channels in my map and flags seem to vary.

Some appear to be legitimately CCI protected:

656 - INDHD - Copy Control Information: "One Copy" (0x02)
903 - MC-03 - Copy Control Information: "Copy Never" (0x03)

while the channels which were all formerly 'copy freely' seem to report 'None' & pose no issue to WMC:

701 - LMNHD - Unknown / None

or fall back to CGMS-A.:

705 - AMCHD - Unknown / Copy Generation Management System - Analog: "One Copy" (0x02)

Do you think the differences in the latter examples are related to Charter provisioning?

Or in the tuner interpretation of the returned flag info?

Since they are involved in their 'All Digital' transition, I can believe they have lingering provisioning issues. Just trying to
determine whether it's worth the hassle of trying to contact someone who could look into it.

Thanks.

[erkotz]

erkotz, if you wouldn't mind clarifying a few things...

I've scanned all available channels in my map and flags seem to vary.

Some appear to be legitimately CCI protected:

656 - INDHD - Copy Control Information: "One Copy" (0x02)
903 - MC-03 - Copy Control Information: "Copy Never" (0x03)

while the channels which were all formerly 'copy freely' seem to report 'None' & pose no issue to WMC:

701 - LMNHD - Unknown / None

or fall back to CGMS-A.:

705 - AMCHD - Unknown / Copy Generation Management System - Analog: "One Copy" (0x02)

Do you think the differences in the latter examples are related to Charter provisioning?

Or in the tuner interpretation of the returned flag info?

Since they are involved in their 'All Digital' transition, I can believe they have lingering provisioning issues. Just trying to
determine whether it's worth the hassle of trying to contact someone who could look into it.

Thanks.

I'm not entirely sure what the question is. Is MC-03 a Music Choice channel? If so, I would call that being Copy Error a configuration issue - I forget the exact wording, but essentially, the only channels allowed by the FCC to be flagged CCI Copy Never (0x03) are PPV channels.

[d00zah]

erkotz, sorry for not being clear & appreciate your input. I hope that CableLabs will, at some point, close the loop on this issue.

[cats22]

Only one version of Homerun Prime firmware ignores the CGMS flag. Evidently that is a bug. The next version honors the flag and prevents recording with mythtv when that is set. I have requested Comcast to look into the problem. I am getting "copy once" on USA Network and FX.

[erkotz]

The change we requested from CableLabs was approved and firmware is available at http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... =68&t=8352 which resolves this issue

[d00zah]

Thank you erkotz & Cable Labs!! Just loaded the new F/W & will report issues the announcement thread.