Eth6 signal issues (EMM drop)

[cKuR6]

I've been dealing with constant signal issues and dropouts with the eth6 and TWC. Twc techs and card support have spent a lot of time checking everything. My cables were replaced, TA checks out, as do the signal levels. My TA is actually perfect, 0,0 for Fdc and RDC. Today, for about the tenth time, I called and we found the EMM drop again. Tech advised this is known ceton firmware issue, and supposedly they are working with multiple providers in an attempt to fix it. Aside from not being able to use more than 4 tuners at a time, this signal issue is also persistent. Is any one else experiencing the trouble with all others factors having been double checked and passed? I find it rather upsetting if this is true, considering I have an open ticket which does not mention this know problem and it doesn't appear to be posted anywhere. At the cost of this tuner, there should be a known issues communication point somewhere. I could be paying twc for working eq for the same amount.....

[Crash2009]

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... rop#p69603

A few other opinions re- EMM

[cKuR6]

Interestingly similiar, except I get a signal error, not a subscription error. The tech i spoke with yesterday at the cable card line seemed versed on this issue and immediately fixed the problem with incremental EMM increases. Nothing else changed signal level wise. Channel map was showing recvd and oob lock. Tech Stated they'd watch my account and manually increase the EMM's. it has not gone down since. Will continue to update. Waiting for a response on my open ticket. Initial blame has been placed on my PC sleeping.

[erkotz]

I don't know where this rumor about the EMM counter going to 0 causing a problem started, but it is incorrect.

The EMMs, or Entitlement Management Messages, essentially tell the CableCARD what it is authorized to decrypt. The counter you are looking at tells the number of EMMs received since the last time the CableCARD was reset - this means that if you power-cycle the InfiniTV, it will go to 0 (as the CableCARD loses power). This is expected, not indicative of a problem, and does not cause an issue. The CableCARD still has the subscription information that was previously sent to it.

There is no problem here for us to "fix" - this is all expected behavior and everything working as designed. The EMMs received counter being at 0 will not prevent you from receiving content on a properly authorized CableCARD. Even if this was a problem (which it is not) EMMs are a concept unique to the CableCARD and the InfiniTV has no involvement in them, so any fix would have to come from the Cable TV provider or CableCARD manufacturer.

If you open a support ticket with us (Ceton) we can help establish what is the actual issue.

[Crash2009]

Initial blame has been placed on my PC sleeping.

What happens when you disable sleep?

[cKuR6]

Erkotz, my EMM s drop without a power cycle. Everytime I have a no signal or no tuner issue, an incremental rise in EMM s from twc brings back the signal. I understand correlation doesn't equate to this being the actual cause, but it is strange that no other signals show an issue and only EMM s raising brings it back. Also, if only a power cycle can cause an expected EMM loss, than this indicates an issue, since I'm losing EMM s without a power cycle.
If this were a pcie, maybe the sleep issue would possibly be the cause, but the eth6 is powered by a mid leve power strip for a/v components.

I have a ticket open, but it has so far started with the same copy / paste answer telling me to install irrelevant hot fixes and asking me to try my card in another slot......

Crash, I don't know but the ticket stated there's was a low power state causing a problem.

Furthermore, your PC was entering low power states in your logs (Sleep) this will need to be corrected.

[erkotz]

Also, if only a power cycle can cause an expected EMM loss, than this indicates an issue, since I'm losing EMM s without a power cycle.

That is not what I said - plenty of other things could cause a CableCARD reset

[cKuR6]

You're the expert. I only went off the info you provided.

tells the number of EMMs received since the last time the CableCARD was reset - this means that if you power-cycle the InfiniTV, it will go to 0 (as the CableCARD loses power).

So what else could cause the reset? Maybe I can eliminate those potential causes.

[Crash2009]

Initial blame has been placed on my PC sleeping.

What happens when you disable sleep?

Have you tried? Disable "Energy Efficient Ethernet" in the network adapter properties on the WMC host.

[cKuR6]

Yes, all settings are matching the power options ceton requested. I've never used sleep because my ssd always failed to wake up. It appears during the fresh install, the usual settings for power- performance, failed to hold or I forgot to change them. They are now set correctly. Additionally, I found a green setting for my nic, which is now disabled as well. I had a few network issue pop ups and auto reboots on the echo yesterday, but no tuner or signal failures. Hopeful that this will fix the issue, but I've gone 3-4 days in the past with no errors. Thus, I need 5-6 days before I will accept that this issue is resolved. I still do t get how the PC sleeping causes loss of EMM s and signal issues on a separately powered cablecard.

[mldenison]

Enabling and using Sleep or HIbernation breaks WMC/Ceton when the PC starts back up. I have to leave my HTPC constantly on to avoid this issue. I never could get Ceton to address/explain why this is an issue. This is the only setup that has caused issues for me.

[cKuR6]

Thanks for the input. Good to know I'm not alone and see that this fixed a similiar issue successfully.

Next up, how to use the additional two tuners, for which I paid so much, without pixelation and blue screens.

[woodchuck]

Enabling and using Sleep or HIbernation breaks WMC/Ceton when the PC starts back up.

Not for me. I've been running my setup with S3 sleep ever since I began using the Ceton PCIe 4 tuner model - back in 2011, and now the ETH6. Must be hardware differences or something???

[cKuR6]

Interesting, ceton requires no sleep if I want support. Strange that it works for you.

[Crash2009]

Not for me. I've been running my setup with S3 sleep ever since I began using the Ceton PCIe 4 tuner model - back in 2011, and now the ETH6. Must be hardware differences or something???

What a coincedence, I have no problems either. Asus M4A78 pro and Radeon 6770. Similar hardware as yours.

[Sea3]

Interesting, ceton requires no sleep if I want support. Strange that it works for you.

Ceton might know something about your setup that requires sleep to be disabled. Although they highly recommend not using sleep they don't require it to be disabled for every setup. This Ceton link seems very relevant and explains why S3 might not work but doesn't claim that it will not work.
http://cetoncorp.com/support/index.php? ... -hibernate

S3 sleep works great for me using Ceton USB and Eth, but I am careful about installed drivers and devices connected to my PC.

[cKuR6]

Ceton might know something about your setup that requires sleep to be disabled.

Possibly, my concern though is the responses to my trouble tickets always request actions and provide info that would apply to pcie and USB tuners. Seems like I'm getting copy paste advice instead of relevant to my situation advice. Similar to when one ends up on the phone with India tech support for other companies, and you can tell they are reading a script and not addressing your problem at all.

[cKuR6]

I've not had any signal issues since last posting. Only one instance of EMM loss. Of course it occured while we were gone for about 4 hours. I can confirm there was no power loss, as no appliances lost the time and the pc was still running.

I've finally obtained mocha filters, and added the splitter to the inbound TA & 6 Eth connections as requested. Adding the splitter reduced signal levels and again brought on the poor/week signal blue screens and pixelation in the 75X,XXX frequency when using more than 2-4 tuners.

Thus, I added in the amp (+8) twc tried last time they were out, and put a moca filter on the cable signal line going to the TA & ETH 6. While searching for others wiring schemes and ways others addressed similar problems, I ran across the All Ceton Signals App. http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 423#p73423 <<< thx for linking the app and keeping it available.

Currently, all channels tune with a crisp image and good sound (aside from the terrible screech/pop from the echo when first tuning or resuming from pause, rwd, or ffwd).
Also, I can now use 5 tuners with great vid quality. Adding the 6th tuner in still causes pixelation, but not as drastic and only in the 75X,XXX frequencies. Unfortunately, these are the Discovery, History, etc channels, which record most of what we watch.

Code: Select all

Information From Ceton Card at: http://
Tuner Instance Used for measurement:0
Number of Frequecies in Cable Card Map:24
Channel List count: 275
Frequency Table 
Signal          SNR Frequency channel#;channel#;... 
8.8 dBmV 36.2 dB 93000 3;18;19;22;26;82;115;175;177;240;359;371;802 
8.8 dBmV 38.6 dB 99000 9 
7.0 dBmV 38.6 dB 111000 991;994;996;1007;1010 
7.2 dBmV 39.4 dB 117000 995;1004;1013 
8.7 dBmV 40.4 dB 129000 1131;1201;1204;1901;1902;1903 
8.5 dBmV 39.9 dB 135000 1150;1350;1904;1905;1906 
8.4 dBmV 39.4 dB 171000 1301;1302;1908 
8.3 dBmV 40.4 dB 189000 1151;1203;1224;1909;1910;1911 
6.2 dBmV 38.3 dB 537000 11;21;23;24;28;31;32;40;42;113;130;176;211;301;302;350 
6.5 dBmV 39.9 dB 543000 4;10;16;20;27;36;43;54;58;59;70;106;107;135;208;230;277;323;333;351;878;886 
6.2 dBmV 38.3 dB 549000 990;1006;1008;998 
5.9 dBmV 38.6 dB 555000 602;1103;1205;1603 
5.2 dBmV 39.9 dB 585000 12;39;44;45;51;63;64;112;131;150;151;205;207;352;884;889 
6.1 dBmV 37.9 dB 591000 1202 
4.4 dBmV 39.4 dB 597000 6;35;38;48;52;101;114;152;159;219;224;225;252;317;360;876;881 
5.4 dBmV 39.4 dB 603000 104;132;137;361;603;622;642;662;877;880 
5.0 dBmV 39.4 dB 609000 2;7;8;13;15;17;29;30;37;41;46;49;103;201;202;203;204;206;250;370;887 
3.6 dBmV 38.3 dB 693000 109;136;140;157;641;812;875;882;1209;1642 
2.4 dBmV 37.6 dB 729000 102;118;305;318;677;776;811;888;901;902;903;904;905;906;907;908;909;910;911;912;913;914;915;916;917;918;919;920;921;922;923 
4.1 dBmV 36.8 dB 753000 1250 
3.4 dBmV 38.3 dB 759000 1134;1207 
3.5 dBmV 37.9 dB 765000 47;55;61;65;134;153;185;214;228;251;276;278;353;391;883 
2.8 dBmV 38.3 dB 771000 14;33;34;50;53;56;57;60;62;73;74;76;133;155;209;215;216;220;254;308;309;316;354;355 
-35.5 dBmV 24.6 dB 807000 1851;1852;1853;1854;1855;1856;1857;1858;1859;1860 

I find it strange that these signals are mostly so high (+), when the reason I added the amp was because some frequencies were showing -13,-14,-10, etc.

[Crash2009]

-35.5 dBmV 24.6 dB 807000 1851;1852;1853;1854;1855;1856;1857;1858;1859;1860

In another post over here>>>>>http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 695#p69695 Similar inconsistencies were corrected by tightening the connections. Use a pair of wrench's. Read the whole post to catch the drift. To me, it sounds similar to yours.

I agree with you this is odd. A +8 amp should take you from -13 to -5. Not +8

[cKuR6]

I don't have the channels you quoted. They were actually blacked out on the results. I didn't notice they copied over.

The problem is that only a few are out of the acceptable range. Therefore, upping the signal pushed the good channels to the edge.

I've already double checked all connections and always use a wrench. I replaced the wire run to the Eth6/TA as well.