infiniTV PCIe 6 - Small but frequent pixel errors

[kd6icz]

Today I was watching a baseball game and I noticed some small but frequent pixel errors that progressively got worse. It continued to get worse until I one of two things happened. The first time the Xbox just went back to the main home login screen (completely backed out of WMC). So I launched WMC again and it connected without issue. Pressed live TV and all was good. About 20 minutes later it started to display pixel errors again witch eventually got so bad it them displayed the "weak signal" message.

I ran the signal strength utility and all levels looked good with all SNR's above 36dB.

Anyone seen this or have any ideas? It's the internal PCIe 6 that's having the issue.

[erkotz]

If your Xbox actually backed out of WMC, that likely indicates a network issue. Are you using hardwired Ethernet?

[JohnW248]

You can see this type of problem with a failing hd which is choosen as the recorder destination in media center. If the drive has errors or time outs you start seeing pixel errors, stalls and eventually weak signal.

Something else to check although network issues are most common especially if you're trying wireless. Even if you get wireless working, all it takes is for a neighbor to get WiFi and then things start pixelating and stalling, reconnecting will get another channel but it usually doesn't last long. If everything works on Sunday morning early, check your neighborhood or go CAT6.

[kd6icz]

Everything in my network is wired shielded cat 6. The hard drive is only a year old but I'm wondering if it was having a bad day. What's funny is my other extender (Xbox 360 as well) is on 24 / 7 showing a Music Choice channel. Through all this it is still up and running just fine. Granted MC doesn't use near the bandwidth of an HD baseball game but I would have figured it would have failed too.

[kd6icz]

I've pretty much ruled out hard drive. It just went through one of its episodes again and the other extender didn't hiccup once. I'm starting to think it might be one off the tuners on my PCIe 6 that has an oscillator drifting. I can change the channel and then come back to the channel I was watching and it works perfectly fine for awhile until it starts the pixel degradation process all over again.

[adam1991]

Switch the locations of the extenders, and see if the problem follows or stays put.

[kd6icz]

Before I switch the extenders I decided to watch some HD on the extender that hadn't to this point had any problems. Like clockwork after about an hour it faded to nothing shutting down WMC. While it was playing before it shut down I started up my primary extender on an HD channel to see if it would fade away. It did not. Even though two stoppages on my bedroom extender. My final test will be to shut down all extenders and watch a live channel directly on the PC. I will reboot it prior to the test so that it will hopefully select tuner number 1.

[barnabas1969]

Sounds like a problem with A) the wiring to the problem extender, or B) the extender itself.

[kd6icz]

I did my test on the PC itself like I said I was going to and it quit working within 30 minutes. So that rules out the extenders or a network issue. I captured a diagnostic file and opened a ticket with Ceton.

[kd6icz]

I have Ceton support stumped. They are telling me that MoCA is causing interference which in turn is causing the macroblocking. I have suspected a tuning issue from the start but I don't use MoCA in my setup. So I seriously think one tuner has failed on my PCIe 6.

I've done what they ask and hooked my PCIe 6 directly to my drop to eliminate any other interference from other devices. I've tuned one channel that has given me problems on the WMC PC itself and the other channel that gives me problems on my Xbox. Let's see if one or both die.

[JohnW248]

You can test the tuners one by one. Just go to the guide and right click on a channel number and choose edit channel, then from that menu choose edit sources. Now uncheck all but one tuner and click save, save.

Now tune a program and only that one tuner will be used on that channel. If no problem, then go back and move it to the next tuner, etc.

Do you have a problem with recording? Just live tv or?

Recording usually picks a different tuner than live tv will pick, but you can always check in the web gui which channel is on which tuner when you have the problem and then use the tuner for your check.

[kd6icz]

I didn't know I could do that. I'm working tonight so that will give me all day tomorrow to test. I will try one tuner at a time and see what happens.

[kd6icz]

@erkotz - This is officially the first time I've had a real issue with one of my Ceton tuners. Can you help me out here and let's actually use logic in troubleshooting instead of ignoring the facts and trying to blame everything else instead of actually getting an engineer that designed the RF section of the card to look at what's going on? It would make this process much less painful.

[kd6icz]

I just tested my ETH 6 (I rarely use it) on my two laptops that I use it with and it is having the same exact issue on the same exact two channels. So now I have no idea what to do. It can't be both units took a crap at exactly the same time. I have scheduled an appointment with the cable company to send someone out to troubleshoot. Two different channels on two different QAM carriers. (85 Mhz and 249 MHz) The only thing they have in common are they are both sports channels broadcasting in 720p.

[adam1991]

@erkotz - This is officially the first time I've had a real issue with one of my Ceton tuners. Can you help me out here and let's actually use logic in troubleshooting instead of ignoring the facts and trying to blame everything else instead of actually getting an engineer that designed the RF section of the card to look at what's going on? It would make this process much less painful.

Your XBox actually backed out of its session with WMC, as you stated. THAT is a networking issue, not a bad tuner issue. That's all he said, and it's quite helpful AND is using logic to troubleshoot. It's not "ignoring the facts," it's repeating back to you the very fact that you asserted.

[adam1991]

@erkotz - This is officially the first time I've had a real issue with one of my Ceton tuners. Can you help me out here and let's actually use logic in troubleshooting instead of ignoring the facts and trying to blame everything else instead of actually getting an engineer that designed the RF section of the card to look at what's going on? It would make this process much less painful.

Your XBox actually backed out of its session with WMC, as you stated. THAT is a networking issue, not a bad tuner issue. That's all he said, and it's quite helpful AND is using logic to troubleshoot. It's not "ignoring the facts," it's repeating back to you the very fact that you asserted.

[adam1991]

I just tested my ETH 6 (I rarely use it) on my two laptops that I use it with and it is having the same exact issue on the same exact two channels. So now I have no idea what to do. It can't be both units took a crap at exactly the same time. I have scheduled an appointment with the cable company to send someone out to troubleshoot. Two different channels on two different QAM carriers. (85 Mhz and 249 MHz) The only thing they have in common are they are both sports channels broadcasting in 720p.

Not true. One other thing they have in common is that they both originate from the same cable company, which is doing God knows what behind the scenes.

Ceton can look at logs and talk to cableco engineers at levels you don't know about or have access to, or have the expertise to work with, and I've seen plenty of evidence in the past of cablecos doing horrendous things that are revealed by something like the InfiniTV--not caused by it.

The biggest problem is when something doesn't happen on the cableco-owned and -rented equipment. At that point, the cableco just throws up its hands and gives up. Example: my cableco moved a channel to a different number. This was a high end HD channel. Nothing I did could make the new channel tune in; it was just black. I went to the cableco office and saw that their equipment tuned it in, and I asked, and I got the shrugged shoulders.

I took a Ceton diagnostic and submitted to Ceton a ticket with a complete explanation of my observations. It didn't take long before it was fixed; it turned out to be some obscure misconfiguration at my cableco's head end, and had NOTHING to do with the InfiniTV. Yet, it took Ceton's time and effort and expertise to get the cableco to understand their own problem.

[cwinfield]

You can see this type of problem with a failing hd which is choosen as the recorder destination in media center. If the drive has errors or time outs you start seeing pixel errors, stalls and eventually weak signal.

Something else to check although network issues are most common especially if you're trying wireless. Even if you get wireless working, all it takes is for a neighbor to get WiFi and then things start pixelating and stalling, reconnecting will get another channel but it usually doesn't last long. If everything works on Sunday morning early, check your neighborhood or go CAT6.

I can attest to this as I was having pixilization/macroblocking due to a failing 2 GB WD Caviar Green HDD.

[kd6icz]

Not true. One other thing they have in common is that they both originate from the same cable company, which is doing God knows what behind the scenes.

Ceton can look at logs and talk to cableco engineers at levels you don't know about or have access to, or have the expertise to work with, and I've seen plenty of evidence in the past of cablecos doing horrendous things that are revealed by something like the InfiniTV--not caused by it.

The biggest problem is when something doesn't happen on the cableco-owned and -rented equipment. At that point, the cableco just throws up its hands and gives up. Example: my cableco moved a channel to a different number. This was a high end HD channel. Nothing I did could make the new channel tune in; it was just black. I went to the cableco office and saw that their equipment tuned it in, and I asked, and I got the shrugged shoulders.

I took a Ceton diagnostic and submitted to Ceton a ticket with a complete explanation of my observations. It didn't take long before it was fixed; it turned out to be some obscure misconfiguration at my cableco's head end, and had NOTHING to do with the InfiniTV. Yet, it took Ceton's time and effort and expertise to get the cableco to understand their own problem.

I got you. I don't think it's the tuner itself now that both are having the same issue. Even my cable company says they think it could be an issue with the head end. Ceton suggests trying MoCA filters. I'm on my way now to see if I can find some.

And yes my one company owned cable box is not experiencing any of the issues my Ceton's are. I think it does have an integrated MoCA filter.

I was just hoping with the dozen or so diagnostic files I've provided and extensive additional info it might help to have an RF engineer take a look and see if mathematically they could see a harmonic or oscillation frequency that could be causing the issue.

Radio Frequency electronics are my hobby and living. I maintain long distance telecommunications microwave radio systems that run Quadrature Amplitude Modulation (QAM). So I try to provide as much details to the people that DO know and have the access I don't have.

[adam1991]

So I try to provide as much details to the people that DO know and have the access I don't have.

I bet that's tricky as all get out, because (a) they can't believe you could possibly know what QAM stands for, let alone the rest of what you know, and (b) they don't know a third of what you know so they're frightened of you when you start talking what seems to be gibberish to them. Also, when that happens they immediately resort to (a).

It takes real talent to nudge such people along. It also takes a steel plate in the forehead to prevent permanent damage as you bang your head against the wall after you hang up the phone or read the return emails.