Help me build my cheap yet effective HTPC for Ceton and more

[ebase131]

Hello all,

Excitedly, I am putting together an all-out man cave in my first house. Very very very excited and also a little intimidated, and want to make sure I do everything right and that includes proper planning before smashing more holes in the walls. I've decided on going the Ceton InfiniTV 6 PCIe route to avoid renting a bunch of DVR/Tuner boxes from Comcast. I have a PC that WAS powerful about 5 years ago, but now I fear it is perhaps not strong enough to run this as well as be able to surf the web or play games etc while 6 other TVs (or more if I add another card) are trying to all stream from it. The PC has an Intel(R) Core(TM)2 i7-920 2.66 GHz 8M L3 Cache LGA1366 with the motherboard being (3-Way SLI Support) EVGA X58 3X SLI Intel X58 Chipset SLI/CrossFireX Mainboard Triple-Channel DDR3/1600 SATA RAID w/ eSATA,Dual GbLAN,USB2.0,Dual IEEE1394&7.1Audio and the video card is a GeForce GTX280 1GB. Has 12 gigs of DDR3 RAM.

What will limit the Ceton InfiniTV 6 PCIe as far as ability to stream to many TVs at once? Is it limited by the HTPC, or the network, or is streaming 6 HD programs at once in 6 different locations while recording 6 other programs handled seemlessly by even "average" HTPCs? What type of power do I need for my HTPC and can anyone recommend one for a good price....would the current one I have be able to cut the mustard?

Thank you for any help and I look forward to the discussion!

[adam1991]

Step 1: give up on the idea that your HTPC will do anything other than just be an HTPC. Do not surf the web with it. Do not play games with it. It will be dedicated to what you want to do with it. Buy other computers to play games on.

Streaming isn't a factor of CPU; streaming is a factor of network, number of CPU cores (one core per extender), and memory (1GB per extender).

Repeat after me: You will hardwire everything. You will not try to "get away with" wireless "because running a wire is too hard".

Recording and playing back TV is not a function of the CPU per se. You're simply shuttling digital bits around, bringing them into the system, storing them on a hard drive, pulling them off the hard drive, and sending them out across the network. You are not processing the bits. The GPU and the TV do the processing.

XBox for extenders. Period.

I'll let others chime in here on ripped movies, video files, etc.

I have my PC plugged directly into my TV, along with two XBox extenders around the house. I'm thinking of using XBox on the main TV now, and not having the HTPC plugged into the TV, now that XBox will have Netflix for no additional cost.

[ebase131]

Interesting, thank you for the detailed response.

So if I have 5 extenders running, I'd probably want at least 8 gigs of RAM to allow for each extender plus the main computer to run without a hitch?

I was definitely thinking xbox 360s for the extenders so I'm happy you said that. They are relatively affordable and also provides the second option of also being fun gaming machines that will all be networked together for an instant LAN party =O)

So, the size of each individual extender's Hard Drive is not an issue either? Are all the shows stored on the HTPC or are they stored on each individual extender? Can this be adjusted for each program being recorded or can it only be stored on one Hard Drive?

And also, may I ask why you say to use it purely for the TV viewing? Would it be impossible or just very bogged down by the TV viewing to be able to do anything else?

Thank you again for the help!

[Tracer]

It is best practice to have a dedicated HTPC, you don't have to use a i7 for HTPC work it's actually probably over kill for Media Center, think of your HTPC as a DVR and not so much as a PC. I'm still running with a 775 dual core processor and 8GB of RAM with no issues and 5 extenders. Originally had the system built with only 4GB running Win7 32-bit and really never had any issues. After the motherboard failed rebuilt it using the same processor with 8GB and win7 64-bit.

Like suggested go with Xbox 360's for extenders and hardwire everything. Personally I would stick with Windows 7 for the HTPC even though members have had luck running Windows 8 I've seen others report having nothing but, issues with Windows 8 when it comes to running Media Center. Also, there are no improvements made to Media Center on Windows 8 that I know of. Also, I prefer the Silicon Dust HD Homerun Prime over the Ceton turner I've had less issues with the Silicon Dust tuner than what I had when I was using the Ceton. Not saying Ceton is a bad tuner just my personal preference.

All programing is stored on the HTPC think of the extender as only extending the viewing experience of the HTPC. The Xbox can have hard drives but, it isn't used for being an extender it is for storing Xbox games and content.

[ebase131]

What is the advantage of the Silicon? Aren't there only 3 tuners included? I will be routinely using 3 or 4 channels while recording 2 or 3 shows so the more tuners the better.

[smcmillan2]

During college football season I frequently have 3-4 extenders as well as my HTPC showing different games on various TVs. For reference my HTPC has an i3-3220T with 16GB RAM. I started with 8GB but found that the extender sessions consumed quite a bit of memory so I bumped it up and have no problems. Never had any issue with CPU usage so I would imagine your i7-920 would handle it just fine.

[ebase131]

During college football season I frequently have 3-4 extenders as well as my HTPC showing different games on various TVs. For reference my HTPC has an i3-3220T with 16GB RAM. I started with 8GB but found that the extender sessions consumed quite a bit of memory so I bumped it up and have no problems. Never had any issue with CPU usage so I would imagine your i7-920 would handle it just fine.

What type of graphics card are you running? And you are using the ceton 6 pcie tuner card?

Do you use xbox 360s as your extenders? Is the picture as clear as watching through a normal Comcast Cable box?

[smcmillan2]

During college football season I frequently have 3-4 extenders as well as my HTPC showing different games on various TVs. For reference my HTPC has an i3-3220T with 16GB RAM. I started with 8GB but found that the extender sessions consumed quite a bit of memory so I bumped it up and have no problems. Never had any issue with CPU usage so I would imagine your i7-920 would handle it just fine.

What type of graphics card are you running? And you are using the ceton 6 pcie tuner card?

Do you use xbox 360s as your extenders? Is the picture as clear as watching through a normal Comcast Cable box?

I am using the embedded Intel HD2500 graphics, which only comes into play if you plan to watch TV through the HTPC directly.

I use an InfiniTV USB 4 tuner, with Linksys DMA2100 extenders off of eBay. I don't notice any difference in picture quality vs. the Brighthouse DVR, but the largest TV I regularly use an extender on is 32" (and my old eyes aren't as sharp as they used to be...)

[Tracer]

What is the advantage of the Silicon? Aren't there only 3 tuners included? I will be routinely using 3 or 4 channels while recording 2 or 3 shows so the more tuners the better.

You can add additional tuners, I'm using two HD Homerun Primes for 6 tuners and using one of the older HD Homerun for OTA recordings and for some local channels my cable provider doesn't offer. The reason why I switched from Ceton to SiliconDust is I routinely had microblocking issues with HBO plus for some reason Media Center wouldn't see the Ceton tuner anymore and had to reboot.

[barnabas1969]

I agree 100% with post #2 and #4. I didn't see it mentioned above, so you need to know that you can only run 5 extenders simultaneously. Your 6th TV will need to be connected directly to the PC. My system handles 5 extenders without issue, and I have 10 tuners (all SiliconDust). Recordings are stored on the PC, not on the extender.

To see what hardware I'm running, see this thread:
http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 587#p56323

[blueiedgod]

We have 12 tuners and 6 TV's (1 connected to HTPC, and 5 via Linksys Extenders). It all works flawlessly on Phenom II X6, and 8 GB or RAM, 64 GB SSD for OS, 3 TB recording and buffer drive, and 32 TB NAS for long term storage (recordings are moved to NAS on a weekly basis via a scheduled task)

[billroden]

Barnabas
How do you have 10 tuners connected to one PC? Are they dual tuners connected to 5 different PCI slots? I have a ceton 4 tuner card on one slot and use wmc as my guide etc. I thought wmc can only handle up to 6 tuners.

Bill

[ebase131]

We have 12 tuners and 6 TV's (1 connected to HTPC, and 5 via Linksys Extenders). It all works flawlessly on Phenom II X6, and 8 GB or RAM, 64 GB SSD for OS, 3 TB recording and buffer drive, and 32 TB NAS for long term storage (recordings are moved to NAS on a weekly basis via a scheduled task)

What type of quality do you get? Does it look just as good as if you were watching all 6 TVs from a cable box in HD? (1080i)?

[ebase131]

I agree 100% with post #2 and #4. I didn't see it mentioned above, so you need to know that you can only run 5 extenders simultaneously. Your 6th TV will need to be connected directly to the PC. My system handles 5 extenders without issue, and I have 10 tuners (all SiliconDust). Recordings are stored on the PC, not on the extender.

To see what hardware I'm running, see this thread:
http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 587#p56323

How do you run more than 6 tuners from one PC? Bill above me thought WMC could only handle 6 tuners at a time. How is the quality of the pictures on each extender?

[kingwr]

How do you run more than 6 tuners from one PC? Bill above me thought WMC could only handle 6 tuners at a time.

Tuner Salad?

[PlainEric]

By default WMC can only do 4 tuners of each type.

in the US for windows 7 and 8.x the types are

- ATSC (OTA Digital)
- ClearQAM (Cable Digital)
- OCUR (Encrypted QAM/CableCard/Cable)
- NTSC (Analog Cable or OTA)
- DVBS/S2 (Satellite)

ISDB is only for Japan.

Using either Tunersalad [http://www.mychannellogos.com/tunersalad] (easiest way), via ceton drivers (if you have a ceton card) or manual registry edits and modifying WMC files (very difficult) it is possible to increase that limit. Tuner salad can now increase it to 32 tuners of each type.

BTW, If you are still sporting a default install, look at http://www.mychannellogos.com/ for a breath of fresh air... [same authors as tunersalad] and a big difference in the WAF experience.

[adam1991]

I agree 100% with post #2 and #4. I didn't see it mentioned above, so you need to know that you can only run 5 extenders simultaneously. Your 6th TV will need to be connected directly to the PC.

To clarify for the OP: only 5 extenders can be active simultaneously. Plugging your HTPC directly into the TV, that's six TVs that can be active simultaneously.

However, you can have more than 5 extenders configured for use. Just don't try to turn them all on at the same time. 5 is the max.

[ebase131]

I agree 100% with post #2 and #4. I didn't see it mentioned above, so you need to know that you can only run 5 extenders simultaneously. Your 6th TV will need to be connected directly to the PC.

To clarify for the OP: only 5 extenders can be active simultaneously. Plugging your HTPC directly into the TV, that's six TVs that can be active simultaneously.

However, you can have more than 5 extenders configured for use. Just don't try to turn them all on at the same time. 5 is the max.

Is there an HTPC spec that you would recommend to run it smoothly? Is the quality up to snuff or does it look like it is streaming off the internet?

[adam1991]

A basic spinning hard drive can handle all of this. MS's specs for extenders is one core (I suspect they mean thread) and 1GB of RAM per extender. Processor speed is virtually immaterial; anything at this level will handle it without beginning to breathe hard.

Beyond that, what you need is solid gigabit wired networking; focus your attention there. We've seen plenty of people who get their knickers in a twist trying to make all sorts of funky networking work, because they're trying to do something on the cheap. Streaming HD video puts a strain on the network. When I did it, I got all new cabling and I bought a nice used Dell gigabit switch. I took the time to route the cabling to all my TVs, including two stories up.

[barnabas1969]

Barnabas
How do you have 10 tuners connected to one PC? Are they dual tuners connected to 5 different PCI slots? I have a ceton 4 tuner card on one slot and use WMC as my guide etc. I thought WMC can only handle up to 6 tuners.

Bill

As explained above, the default limit is 4 tuners of each type. Tuner Salad expands this limit as do the Ceton drivers. If you have a Ceton tuner, you do not need Tuner Salad. The Ceton drivers expand it to 30 tuners of each type. Tuner Salad currently expands it to 32 tuners of each type. I'm using the older (free) version of Tuner Salad that expands it to 6 of each type. I have 6 CableCARD tuners (two HD HomeRun PRIMEs) and 4 ATSC tuners (two HD HomeRun "duals", model HDHR3-US).

All of my tuners are network-connected HD HomeRun and HD HomeRun PRIME tuners. My HTPC has only one PCIe slot, and my PC case is so thin that I can't use that slot either. See the link that I posted earlier in this thread, it has pictures and everything.