Ceton offering continuing sales on the Echo

[Dean L. Surkin]

I find this somewhat troubling. Should technology companies be obligated to tell their customers that a product is at end-of-life, they are selling off old stock, and there will be no further firmware development? Of should customers just assume that whenever a company slashes prices on a product, that it is end-of-life?

What prompted this is that I've received a few emails from Ceton recently offering the Echo for about 50% of its original cost.

[IownFIVEechos]

We should at least consider ourselves lucky that we have this information. Think of the guy who is just getting into this. Who has windows 8, etc etc... I just want to know that the update servers will be around. I want my echos patched to the March build permanently without having to update them on recovery. Ceton will you throw us a bone?

[IownFIVEechos]

The other scary thing is where are the refurbs? You never see a refurb sale so are they sending them out as new? Remember they play the game a little different than most.

[dabretty]

The other scary thing is where are the refurbs? You never see a refurb sale so are they sending them out as new? Remember they play the game a little different than most.

I agree. I have wondered the same thing.

However, my experience with 8 devices (between myself and my in-laws') has been a failure rate of 25% - necessitating a return to Ceton for replacement. I think it's safe to say that the devices I got back were refurbs (different states of firmware when shipped back to me). So I think they've got enough "churn," by way of a high failure rate due to production quality issues, to keep fixing batches of those returned and sending them back out to customers as replacements for their "new" devices. I bet that the refurb devices are the only ones that Ceton is actually testing themselves. If given a choice between one coming straight off the Asian factory line (with a high failure rate) or one that's been refurb'd and individually tested by Ceton, I'd choose the latter every time.

[IownFIVEechos]

I wish they could permanently flash the latest build onto them as well. What you said makes sense. I overlooked the return process. We need to push them on flashing these things. The update servers wont be around forever. So then what?

[cncb]

I was thinking the same thing when I got the emails about the sale. I can't believe they are still selling these things.

[barnabas1969]

I'm sure they have a lot of money tied up in their inventory and would like to unload them.

[adam1991]

I find this somewhat troubling. Should technology companies be obligated to tell their customers that a product is at end-of-life, they are selling off old stock, and there will be no further firmware development?

When did this entitlement of upgrades for life come about?

When you buy a candy bar, do you care if the candy maker is even around anymore, let alone if they're making more of those same candy bars?

No.

So buy the product and, if it functions to your satisfaction, use it. If not, take it back.

How hard is this? Hint: NOT.

No company is obligated to tell anyone anything about their business, period. Why do you think you're entitled to know anything at all?

[kingwr]

I find this somewhat troubling. Should technology companies be obligated to tell their customers that a product is at end-of-life, they are selling off old stock, and there will be no further firmware development?

When did this entitlement of upgrades for life come about?

When you buy a candy bar, do you care if the candy maker is even around anymore, let alone if they're making more of those same candy bars?

No.

So buy the product and, if it functions to your satisfaction, use it. If not, take it back.

How hard is this? Hint: NOT.

No company is obligated to tell anyone anything about their business, period. Why do you think you're entitled to know anything at all?

I think it really depends on the product and the company. In this case, the Echo was released with known bugs and without promised features. Ceton continued to work on the product, blogging about the progress of the fixes and describing new features to come. There was an inherent understanding that the product was updateable/upgradeable and was going to be made better by the company on an ongoing basis. I don't expect bug fixes/improvements from my lawn mower or my refrigerator. I do expect fixes and improvements from DirecTV, Samsung, Microsoft, Apple, and the like, and I am equally upset when one of these companies abandons a product before a reasonable end-of-life without adding features that are being added to later products (such as my Samsung TV which did not receive the latest round of fixes to CEC-HDMI or the addition of Amazon VOD to the Samsung Apps).

[adam1991]

That's a naive position to take. In this life, where businesses lie to you every day simply because, I expect that any product I get is exactly what I'll end up with. Period. Either it does what I need it to do in a manner acceptable to me, or it doesn't and I return it.

To buy something on the hope and promise that it'll be different is silly.

Remember that the next time you go to the altar and the voting booth.

[kingwr]

How the hell did you ever get into Windows Media Center? I think you'll find that the WMC community, and these forums, have many more early adopters than typical one-shot consumers like yourself.

[barnabas1969]

Well, I agree with Adam on his last point. When Ceton hadn't delivered the promised features by the end of the (extended) warrantee period, I returned it. I didn't completely trust them to deliver on their promises, so I decided to return it for a refund. I hoped that they would eventually fix the Echo, and I would have bought another one if they ever delivered on the promises.

[IownFIVEechos]

The echo does what it was supposed to do for users who set it up correctly. I am now lobbying to have them flash it to the March build so that we have no reliance on the update servers. It would make sense for Ceton to do this if they are not updating the product anymore. If all units are on the latest version they can stop maintaining (I think they did already anyway) the update server.

[barnabas1969]

The echo does what it was supposed to do for users who set it up correctly.

I didn't set it up "incorrectly" and it didn't do what it was supposed to do.

[IownFIVEechos]

My fear is that they can not permanently write the latest firmware to the memory. If so they should have done what other companies do and issued a recall. That's what I would have expected from other companies without wishing for a life time of updates. But I would like a product that is not flawed from the beginning. Hopefully this is not the case, but it is odd all other devices do a firmware upgrade and you don't go back to the original, ever.

[barnabas1969]

It never happened to me, but I've read several accounts that said that it somehow reverted to the original firmware. There are two possible ways for this to happen:

1) The update server somehow sends the original firmware.
2) The Echo has an area where the original firmware is stored permanently and the device reverts to it if there is some kind of error.

If it's #2, then you're doomed if the update servers go away. If it's #1, then as long as you're on the latest firmware when the update servers go away, then you're OK.

[Dean L. Surkin]

No company is obligated to tell anyone anything about their business, period. Why do you think you're entitled to know anything at all?

I always ask, when buying a product, what kind of support to expect. To answer your question (which you meant rhetorically, but I'll answer it nevertheless): the vendor wants my money, so I believe I'm entitled to ask about the product. Depending upon the vendor's answers, I may or may not take the risk inherent in the purchase.

As it is, with the Echo, I did decide to take the risk, acquiring my first Echo during the beta period, and I bought my second Echo as I was becoming aware they were having firmware issues. I compared the product to the DVR that Cablevision had placed in my house, and I made my choice.

I stand by my position that I'm entitled to ask. If the vendor declines to answer, that's a factor I'll consider.

[barnabas1969]

No company is obligated to tell anyone anything about their business, period. Why do you think you're entitled to know anything at all?

I always ask, when buying a product, what kind of support to expect. To answer your question (which you meant rhetorically, but I'll answer it nevertheless): the vendor wants my money, so I believe I'm entitled to ask about the product. Depending upon the vendor's answers, I may or may not take the risk inherent in the purchase.

As it is, with the Echo, I did decide to take the risk, acquiring my first Echo during the beta period, and I bought my second Echo as I was becoming aware they were having firmware issues. I compared the product to the DVR that Cablevision had placed in my house, and I made my choice.

I stand by my position that I'm entitled to ask. If the vendor declines to answer, that's a factor I'll consider.

Dean,

If you were part of the Echo beta, you knew there were firmware issues before the beta period ended. Why would you buy another one before they fixed those issues? It was the most miserable beta I've ever been involved with. Ceton released the product to market knowing that it still had serious issues. Every beta tester who was paying attention should have known that.

[IownFIVEechos]

Not speaking for Dean, but they are nice devices when they work. Saves on the DVR fee etc...

[barnabas1969]

Not speaking for Dean, but they are nice devices when they work. Saves on the DVR fee etc...

OK, and you can get Linksys and HP extenders (for less money) that work better. You can get an XBox for about the same money, and it works MUCH better.