Infinitv 6 ETH With More than 2 PC's

[seangrimes]

I'm trying to find out if anyone here is able to successfully use their Infinitv 6 eth with more than 2 PC's. As of now, my system pretty much is working great, but I only have 2 PC's setup to access the tuners using tuner pooling. Tuning to a channel only takes about 5-15 seconds with my current setup. 1 of the 2 PC's is also tied to 3 Xbox extenders.

I'd really like to have 4 PC's setup to access the device, but once I connect more than 2 PC's to it, I start having issues such as:

1. slow channel changes (tuning to a channel can take anywhere from 30 seconds to 5 whole minutes, or the channel won't change at all!)
2. "weak signal", "service unavailable" and "no subscription" messages (this problem usually only seems occurs if I have 4 PC's setup to access the tuners)
3. "Playready can't update" messages (unplugging the Infintv and going through Live TV setup fixes this issue for me; only seems to occur when 4 PC's are setup to access the tuners)

I've also learned that continued use of my Infinitv under the conditions that cause these issues seems to cause it to go into a state where no LiveTV will stream at all! The only way to fix this is for me to unplug the device and go through Live Tv setup. For now, I've decided to only set up 2 PC's to access the tuners via tuner pooling because everything seems stable and the wife and kids are happy.

I must also add that I had been VERY frustrated with the "Playready update can't complete" message MANY, MANY times and none of the online fixes ever worked for me. I've have successfully fixed the Pleayready EACH and every time I've unplugged my Infinitv and gone through LiveTV setup in WMC. I've also noticed that I only have the Playready issue on 1 or more PC's if I have 4 PC's setup to access the tuners.

Is it possible my device is defective or is it possible that it just can't handle too many PC's? I mean, I'm pretty sure than it can't work properly if I try to set it up to work with 20 PC's via tuner pooling. Is there a cut off as to how many PC's work well with this device?

Any thoughts?

[erkotz]

There is a cut-off of the number of simultaneous WM-DRM pairings the InfiniTV can perform, but it's significantly higher than 2. I've used it with several PCs without issue.

[EZEd]

I have it working with 3 PCs and 2 extenders. I had it loaded on a 4th PC but that machine was too weak to run live TV (single core pent3) so I removed it. I have run all three PCs and at least one extender simlutaneously but never all 3 PCs and 2 extenders simultaneously. My assumption is that if 3 & 1 worked, 3 &2 would also likely work. Also running Gig switch and combination of cat5e/cat6 cabling.

[luisc202]

There is a cut-off of the number of simultaneous WM-DRM pairings the InfiniTV can perform, but it's significantly higher than 2. I've used it with several PCs without issue.

Eric,

I am facing the same issue the OP is posting. I have pretty new pc's with 3rd and 4th gen Intel's with 8gb of ram and Samsung 840 Pro SSD's with Windows 7 64 and 2 with Windows 8 64 bit and cannot run more than 2 pc's without seriously slow channel tuning.

is anyone else able to use the Ceton initv ETH with more than 2 pc's successfully with normal operation of speeds?

[seangrimes]

I am facing the same issue the OP is posting. I have pretty new PC's with 3rd and 4th gen Intel's with 8gb of ram and Samsung 840 Pro SSD's with Windows 7 64 and 2 with Windows 8 64 bit and cannot run more than 2 PC's without seriously slow channel tuning.

is anyone else able to use the Ceton initv ETH with more than 2 PC's successfully with normal operation of speeds?

Hate to hear you're having this issue, but I'm also glad I'm not alone in this. I've been checking all sorts of stuff on my network to see if I can find something faulty, but everything seems to be good on my end. I've been trying to eliminate possible Pc's as the problem, but I'm getting nowhere with that. When I setup livetv only on my 2 dual core machines, everything works fine. When I setup livetv only on my 2 quad core machines, everything works fine. If I setup livetv only on a quad core and a dual core machine, everything works fine. Once I add a 3rd PC to the mix, I start to experience slow channel changes and I get a lot of service unavailable messages. A channel may take a long time to tune in, but once it does, the picture quality is good. The weird thing about this problem is that if PC 1 and 2 are stopped and I play live tv on pc 3, I'll still receive slower than average channel changes and may get service unavailable messages. That's very strange to have an issue like that when only one tuner is in use!

Once I think about it, I didn't start having a lot of these issues until I started using tuner pooling as instructed by Ceton support. Before I used tuner pooling, I was assigning tuners to PC's. I had problems with that setup, but I think it was because my incoming signal was not good. I would get a lot of pixelation when 4 or more tuners were in use under my original setup at times, but that is not the case for me anymore. Now that I have a better signal, I may go back to the old setup just to see what happens.

[seangrimes]

Just thought of something. My Gigabit network consist of a combination of cat 5e and 6 cable, a 16 port Netgear gigabit switch and a gigabit netgear router. My patch panel where all of my Ethernet runs terminate at is a Cat 5 patch panel. Could this be a problem?

[seangrimes]

I did some test and here is what I found:

PC 1 (dual core processor) = download speeds around 60 Mb/s
PC 2 (i5 processor) = download speeds around +/- 100 Mb/s (this is my PC that connects to me extenders)
PC 3 (i5 processor) = download speeds around +/- 100 Mb/s
PC 4 (dual core processor) = download speeds around 45 Mb/s

Here is my problem though. Let's say I setup LiveTv ONLY on PC's 2 and 3. Everything will work fine and channel changes are great. Let's also say that I only setup LiveTv on PC's 1 and 4. Everything will work fine like that too with good channel change speeds. I don't start having issues until I setup Live TV on a 3rd PC. For example. If I setup Live TV on PC's 2, 3 and 4 and then start streaming a channel on ANY of the PC's, I'll get long channel changes from 15 seconds up to about 30 seconds or more. The video will stream fine however. If I add in a 4th PC, the same thing will happen, but channel changes will take a lot longer to tune in. It doesn't matter which PC I stream from either. Under the previous scenario, if I only have 1 tuner in use, I'll still get long channel changes.

I did another test today. I streamed a station on both PC's 4 and 3. I then went downstairs to my beefy PC2 which has 16Gb of ram with a 3.4 GHz processor. I started recording 2 stations with no issues on that PC. So that's 4 tuners in use right there. I then tried to view a station on PC2 with those 2 recordings in progress, but the station never tuned in. The PC acted like it was low on resources. I also got the Service Unavailable message after a while. I'd have though that PC2 was beefy enough to handle what I was trying to there.

[luisc202]

I did some test and here is what I found:

PC 1 (dual core processor) = download speeds around 60 Mb/s
PC 2 (i5 processor) = download speeds around +/- 100 Mb/s (this is my PC that connects to me extenders)
PC 3 (i5 processor) = download speeds around +/- 100 Mb/s
PC 4 (dual core processor) = download speeds around 45 Mb/s

Here is my problem though. Let's say I setup LiveTv ONLY on PC's 2 and 3. Everything will work fine and channel changes are great. Let's also say that I only setup LiveTv on PC's 1 and 4. Everything will work fine like that too with good channel change speeds. I don't start having issues until I setup Live TV on a 3rd PC. For example. If I setup Live TV on PC's 2, 3 and 4 and then start streaming a channel on ANY of the PC's, I'll get long channel changes from 15 seconds up to about 30 seconds or more. The video will stream fine however. If I add in a 4th PC, the same thing will happen, but channel changes will take a lot longer to tune in. It doesn't matter which PC I stream from either. Under the previous scenario, if I only have 1 tuner in use, I'll still get long channel changes.

I did another test today. I streamed a station on both PC's 4 and 3. I then went downstairs to my beefy PC2 which has 16Gb of ram with a 3.4 GHz processor. I started recording 2 stations with no issues on that PC. So that's 4 tuners in use right there. I then tried to view a station on PC2 with those 2 recordings in progress, but the station never tuned in. The PC acted like it was low on resources. I also got the Service Unavailable message after a while. I'd have though that PC2 was beefy enough to handle what I was trying to there.

I know it is the Ceton because I have 2 of them and see the same results on each one . I can successfully stream to 2 of my pc's but when a 3rd one comes into the mix it gets super slow. I have a Strong signal since I have Fios and have to attenuate it at a signal splitter.


I have been using my pc's for streaming Bluray iso's from a Norco RP24 which houses 24 3TB drives. This server serves all the pc's in my house and I can watch 5 bluray movies at the same time without issues on the pcs and the network. So I know the pcs and my network is solid as streaming blurays is heavy on the network. I changed from a PCIE4 and am thinking I made a mistake by going to 2 CEton ETH Network tuners. I love the idea but wished it was working.


I even built a new i5-4560k with 16 gigs of ram and a new Samsung 840 Pro SSD. For what it is worth each one of my pc's is a 3rd gen or 4th gen i5 with 8 gigs of ram and Samsung Pro SSD's. These pcs boot up super fast and are awesome for streaming blurays on the wire.
Maybe the tuner pooling is the issue as it is not working for me . I have spent 2 solid days troubleshooting this thing, getting 2 more cable cards, my wife is like all this to watch tv..lol I will give it a couple of more days and ship them back to Amazon if I cannot pinpoint the issue and stay with the pcei6 that I also bought.

Can anyone else chime in that is using more than 2 pc's to stream from the network tuner?

[seangrimes]

luisc202, I too am able to stream movies stored on my NAS over my network to multiple PC's with no issue.

I started a thread over at Silicondust and our problem may have something to do with our cablecards.
http://www.silicondust.com/forum2/viewt ... 44&t=17156

It does seem strange to me that the HD Homerun Prime is the only competing device with the Ceton Infinitv 6 eth and they only have a 3 tuner device. They did release a 6 tuner device a while back, but it had 2 Ethernet ports, 2 tuning adapter usb ports and 2 cablecard slots. It was basically 2 3 tuner device all in one device. It appears they discontinued that device though. Why they discontinued is unknown to me!

[gthompson20]

luisc202, I too am able to stream movies stored on my NAS over my network to multiple PC's with no issue.

I started a thread over at Silicondust and our problem may have something to do with our cablecards.
http://www.silicondust.com/forum2/viewt ... 44&t=17156

It does seem strange to me that the HD Homerun Prime is the only competing device with the Ceton Infinitv 6 eth and they only have a 3 tuner device. They did release a 6 tuner device a while back, but it had 2 Ethernet ports, 2 tuning adapter usb ports and 2 cablecard slots. It was basically 2 3 tuner device all in one device. It appears they discontinued that device though. Why they discontinued is unknown to me!

Did you ever try and stop using Tuner Pooling and Assign Tuners to each PC?

Greg

[EZEd]

I think it's just the non-repeatable, hit or miss, functionality of WMC7. Because the software is working in a myriad of hardware implementations (both local machine and network environment) it behaves in differing and varying ways. Most of my immediate problems have always stemmed from the use of the tuning adapter. I fought a problem some time ago where I could get all of my sub'd channels except one. That channel at first was one of the SD Disney channels then later switched to be the HD Discovery channel. It switched spontaneously and the cableco could find no reason why it would only be that one channel. Both cableco and Ceton eventually agreed that it was probably the TA but neither could say why it would be just one channel instead of a block of channels. TWC Dallas finally came by a few weeks ago and determined that my signal was too hot coming in to the house as opposed to "not enough" as reported by the Ceton diag app. The cable techs did have to put an attenuator out on the node box at street level and they swapped cables and splitter inside the house just to make sure I had good signal up to that point. We also had to fix an administrative issue with the card Host ID and other provisioning numbers but when it was over, we were able to get the errant channel to work and didn't have to swap out either the cablecard or the TA.

The spontaneous Playready issue has happened several times and I too have had to try all of the know fixes at one time or another and none worked. That problem as of late has again spontaneously fixed itself as well.

I have not experienced yet what you two are seeing. I switched from a Ceton ITV4PCIe to an ITV6ETH last spring (I was not using network bridge with the PCIe card). I have always had 3 PCs and 2 Linksys extenders connected to the network using the 6ETH. It has always been on a Trendnet 8 port Gig switch using a combination of cat5e and cat6 cables. The switch sits behind my router and all other devices connect into the switch. Nothing but the switch is connected to router. My channel changes have always been relatively slow (roughly 2 to 3 seconds) but they were also this same speed with the 4PCIe card and nothing but extenders connected. So I've never noticed a change in channel change speed even from before I connected 2 other PCs.

I have had 3 PCs viewing live and one extender viewing live running simultaneously under the 6ETH with a total test time of about 15 or 20 minutes no problems. I have had 3 PCs recording and one extender viewing without problems. The only combination I have not tried is all PCs and all extenders recording or viewing at the same time. The only reason I have avoided it is because I only have a triple core processor in the main rig and the 2 extenders hang off of it. I figured it would be more of a problem for the PC to keep up with streaming 2 and watching/recording one than the Ceton. By that point I figured I had proven to myself that at least in my case the weak link is not the Ceton. For me it is always either WMC7 and its flaky Playready issue or the cable company and their bogus azz tuning adapter. Both of which I'd almost give a testicle to get rid of, but the architecture is what it is and doesn't look like is going to get any better.

I do feel the pain of you both because it is very frustrating to have something advertised and it doesn't perform to expectation or worse still you can't root cause troubleshoot and fix it because it doesn't behave like everyone elses. I've been there on other issues. Just unfortunate, not on these issues. I really don't know whether to tell you to give up or not. But I can tell you others do have it working. Obviously there is something different about your implementation than mine (or others that have it working). It could be the machine(s), it could be the network, it could be the cableco, it could be the tuner. And that is the problem...too many pieces and too many pieces that can go wrong. Good luck and just keep plugging away.

[signcarver]

One thing I do want to point out to the two who mentioned they can play files from their NAS so it "can't" be their network... that is not a good comparison as live streams have no way to recover from errors in packets. Playing a file, however, will result in the error being detected and the packet being resent faster than you can detect it. I'm not saying the problem "is" your network, but you gave no "proof" that it isn't. Over Christmas and a couple times since then, I've installed primes at homes with netgear switches and routers that worked fine for everything until I put the prime on the network (tried different ports/cables etc.) In one case a Netgear GS108 switch refused to allow the prime to even obtain an ip address as it would drop it's connection prior to the prime accepting the DHCP offer... in all cases replacing the netgear switch and/or router (connect it only to a switch) with "el-cheapo" trend net 8 port switches fixed the problem... though I have installed a couple of 6 ETHs, I have not tried it with those switches (which I happen to have as I "recycle" the equipment I replace) so I might try that out but lately I have been avoiding netgear equipment which I used to trust (I had several of their MoCA adapters go out this past year as well... turned out to be power supply).

[PlainEric]

What is the firmware on your Cablecards and TAs?

If Motorola, please check http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 388#p74388

If Cisco, please check http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... =68&t=7357

In either case it looks like there are issues with more than 4 tuners for both Cisco AND Motorola CableCards and TAs.

[luisc202]

One thing I do want to point out to the two who mentioned they can play files from their NAS so it "can't" be their network... that is not a good comparison as live streams have no way to recover from errors in packets. Playing a file, however, will result in the error being detected and the packet being resent faster than you can detect it. I'm not saying the problem "is" your network, but you gave no "proof" that it isn't. Over Christmas and a couple times since then, I've installed primes at homes with netgear switches and routers that worked fine for everything until I put the prime on the network (tried different ports/cables etc.) In one case a Netgear GS108 switch refused to allow the prime to even obtain an ip address as it would drop it's connection prior to the prime accepting the DHCP offer... in all cases replacing the netgear switch and/or router (connect it only to a switch) with "el-cheapo" trend net 8 port switches fixed the problem... though I have installed a couple of 6 ETHs, I have not tried it with those switches (which I happen to have as I "recycle" the equipment I replace) so I might try that out but lately I have been avoiding netgear equipment which I used to trust (I had several of their MoCA adapters go out this past year as well... turned out to be power supply).

I just replaced the the 2 netgear gs108's for the new HP Procurve 8 ports. I will test later on and see what I find. Can you stream to 3 different pc's from one ETH tuner?

[PlainEric]

I just replaced the the 2 netgear gs108's for the new HP Procurve 8 ports. I will test later on and see what I find. Can you stream to 3 different PC's from one ETH tuner?

Unfortunately there are several releases of the gs108, with at least two of these releases not having enough buffer on the backplane to sufficiently drive more than 5 ports at full gig speeds. The Green Ethernet version of the switch is also known to have compatibility issues with some Intel motherboards.

[luisc202]

What is the firmware on your Cablecards and TAs?

If Motorola, please check http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 388#p74388

If Cisco, please check http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... =68&t=7357

In either case it looks like there are issues with more than 4 tuners for both Cisco AND Motorola CableCards and TAs.

I have Fios and use Motorola Cablecards with NO T/A's.

[seangrimes]

Did you ever try and stop using Tuner Pooling and Assign Tuners to each PC?

Actually I did. It works a little better that way. I have 3 tuners assigned to one PC and 1 each assigned to the other 3 PC's. I'll get back and let you know my progress.

And that is the problem...too many pieces and too many pieces that can go wrong. Good luck and just keep plugging away.

Thanks. I'm not giving up just yet. I'll keep at it.

One thing I do want to point out to the two who mentioned they can play files from their NAS so it "can't" be their network... that is not a good comparison as live streams have no way to recover from errors in packets. Playing a file, however, will result in the error being detected and the packet being resent faster than you can detect it. I'm not saying the problem "is" your network, but you gave no "proof" that it isn't.

I do have 2 machines on my network that could be the weakest links. They are dual core Zotac mini PC's with Atom processors. I asked Ceton more than once if they would be a problem because they are under specs., but they never responded. My next test is to move my PC's around around to see if something goofy is going on with my wiring. I just bought a new 16 port Prosafe JGS516 Gigbit switch and have all of my wired network devices going to it. Personally, I really think that my network cabling, switches and routers are tight. If anything is the problem other than my Infinitv, I'd say it's one or both of my Zotac dual core Mini PC's.

What is the firmware on your Cablecards and TAs?

I just got a new Cablecard and TA today and to be honest, I don't think that firmware of the TA really matters and I'll explain why. When I connected my new TA fresh out of the box, the Ceton webpage said that the firmware was 1.33 and the tuners available was only 4. The page also said that the TA wasn't resolving. I contacted Charter and they did something on their end to initiate it. Once I saw that it initiated, I asked them if they could push out a firmware update and they responded that they couldn't. After I hung up with them, I noticed that the TA was flashing yellow. When the light became steady, I checked the TA page and low and behold the firmware was updated to 1.37 and it showed 6 tuners. Could the box have 2 or more firmware versions on it and simply uses the one that it needs? I don't know.

I can't remember the firmware version of my CableCard, but I do remember that it is a more recent version to what I had. I didn't see any changes by changing those devices anyway.

[TeddyR]

Tough Call... 1.36 looks like is the required version to support 6 tuners and 1.37 may be the latest available, BUT according to http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/sh ... p?t=509627 it looks like there is still a problem with 1.37.

To check the symptom, instead of restarting the whole ETH6 and TA, restart just the TA and see if the ETH6 works after that....

[seangrimes]

Tough Call... 1.36 looks like is the required version to support 6 tuners and 1.37 may be the latest available, BUT according to http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/sh ... p?t=509627 it looks like there is still a problem with 1.37.

To check the symptom, instead of restarting the whole ETH6 and TA, restart just the TA and see if the ETH6 works after that....

Thanks Teddy. It also appears that the Cablecard firmware is import too:
Firmware required for 6 tuners: FW* 6.25

I'll have to check into that.

Thanks for the heads up.

[seangrimes]

Ok. I think I may have something working over here now. First, I stopped using tuner pooling. The setup is not optimal, but it will have to do for now.

I assigned:

3 tuners to my i5 processor PC that's linked to my 3 extenders
1 tuner to an i5 PC
1 tuner to a dual core atom
1 tuner to another dual core atom

Before going through setup on each PC, I unplugged my infinitv and TA. I then went to each PC and cleared the tuner configuration. I then plugged the infinitv and TA back up. I then went from each PC one by one and rediscovered the tuners and went through livetv setup. Not sure if everyone is aware, but support at Ceton instructed me not to have livetv playing on any pc's while performing livetv setup on another pc.

This setup seems ok. I do notice that channel changes are quicker on non protected channels. About 3-5 seconds. Channel changes on protected channels takes anywhere from 5-15 seconds or possibly a little longer. Some say this may have something to do with Playready though.

For anyone who wants to know, my firmware versions are:

infinitv 6 eth: 13.9.24.118
Motorola Tuning Adapter: 1.37
Motorola Cable Card: 6.25

I'm not 100% on this , but I heard on another forum that Cable Cards with firmaware versions with lesser values than the ones listed above may have issues with 6 tuner support.

I also noticed that at least 2 of my PC's may be limited as far as networking speed goes, but from I see, 12 MB/s is about average for streaming HD video if I'm correct and I think they are more than capable of handling that.