All Kinds Of Issues With My InfiniTV 6 ETH

[tad]

Pick up a couple of HD Homerun primes. Problem solved. I have had zero issues with mine, and I think any other Silicondust user would concur. Once you get it setup, it's stable.

Hey Tad. I've thought about doing this, but I want to give my device a fair try first. Things have been working ok for the past couple of days.

In all honesty, do you think that the InfiniTv 6 ETH can handle the load when 4-6 tuners are in use? Whenever all tuners are in use, picture quality is either:
1 - good on all PC's and extenders
2 - choppy on some PC's and good on some PC's and extenders

From my understanding, the HD Homerun prime is the only device that is in competition with the Infinitv 6 ETH at the moment and it only has 3 tuners. There must be a reason for that. In 2011, silicon did release a 6 tuner device, but it was actually 2 - 3 tuner devices in one which had 2 Cablecard slots and 2 Ethernet connections:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/23/6-tu ... ale-today/

That device appears to have been discontinued though. It appears that people are now simply buying 2 - 3 tuner HD Homerun Devices. From what I'm learning, it seems to me that Ceton is forcing one device to handle the network load and Cablecard capacity that 2 devices should be handling. Does that sound accurate?

When I get a chance, I'm going to load my device down and see if I have any more issues. The only problems I've had lately are problems that I created intentionally by unplugging the network cable to the Infinitv 6 ETH.

I actually have one of those dual-prime, rackmount SD tuners. Works great I have no idea what the Ceton 6 tuner is capable of - I have just read about tons of problems with it. I'm glad I went SD (I just wish they came out with an extender!)

[barnabas1969]

I just wish they came out with an extender!

I'd like to see them write their own software to replace Media Center entirely. It's about time for someone to do it, and I'd definitely give them my money. If they came out with an extender-like model which could run on a low-power PC, and charged a per-seat license for their extender software, I'd buy it.

[seangrimes]

I just wish they came out with an extender!

I'd like to see them write their own software to replace Media Center entirely. It's about time for someone to do it, and I'd definitely give them my money. If they came out with an extender-like model which could run on a low-power PC, and charged a per-seat license for their extender software, I'd buy it.

Great point! I was wanting the exact same thing!

[seangrimes]

Hey guys. Thanks for the help, but I think I figured out what some of my problems were.

For starters, 2 of my Zotac PC's are not within Ceton's specifications. They both have Intel Atom processors. One of the PC's is an Intel Atom 2.1Ghz. It does ok, but the PC with the Intel Atom 1.8Ghz processor always takes a long time to tune channels now for some reason. They both have 4G of memory, but the PC with the 1.8Ghz processor seems to get bogged down a lot now. I may reinstall on windows on it to see what happens.

I think one of my other problems was a cabling issue. At first, I had the Infinitv connected directly to the router. I also had a 16 port Netgear Gigabit switch and a server PC connected to the router. I changed out about 3 cables in the process, but I ended up only using one of my routers' LAN ports to feed my switch. I then connected all of my devices in my house on my wired LAN network right to the switch. I think the reason I was getting the "tuner conflict" or "no tuner available" messages because the Infinitv was losing its network connection; probably because of a bad cable or some other networking issue that appears to be resolved now. Unfortunately, there is no automatic fix to resolve tuner conflicts if the Infinitv loses its network connection and then reestablishes its connection. This quote was taken from Ceton's support:

Generally, when WMC loses connection with the InfiniTV, the WMDRM pairing goes red and it remains undetected by WMC until you either restart, or clear/discover tuners. Unfortunately, there's no way to automate this process; it's simply a limitation of the WMC software.

I also think that my slow channel changes have more to do with my Tuning Adapter, my slow PC and(or) Cablecard.

[seangrimes]

I'm a bit puzzled about something now. According to Ceton's specifications, a good signal has an SNR of about 32-37 ideally at 37 and a signal strength of 12 to -12 dbmv with the ideal at or around 0 dbmv. I was able to achieve a signal with an SNR of about 37 and a signal strength of about -1 dbmv, but I had lots of issues with that signal. I get lots of "service unavailable" and "weak signal" messages. I also believe that this causes my channel changes to take a really long time as well.

Could this have something to do with Charter Cable? I've been with Charter for over 10 years now and they've been out to my house MANY times to resolve issues with my cable signal that up until now only caused issues with my internet service. Some years back, one of the service guys installed a splitter and an amplifier that looks similar to this one:
http://www.extreme-broadband.com/amplifiers.html

He ran the cable line that feeds my house into a 3 way splitter that has 2 -3.5db outputs and 1 -7bd output. He then went from one of the -3.5db outputs into the Extreme amplifier in the photo from above.

I ran from 2 of the outputs on the amplifier. One connects to my Infinitv 6 ETH and the other goes to my tuning adapter. Here is what I found when everything is setup like this. My signal level on my Infinitv will have an SNR around 39 and signal levels would be about -4.5 to -8 dBmv on tuners that were in use. Tuning to channels seem to be ok with this setup and even great at times, but I may get an occasional "service unavailable" or "weak signal" message in WMC that goes away after the channel finally tunes in. Channel changes take anywhere from about 2 seconds to about 20 seconds. My wife says she can live with this.

If I run from the -7db output on the main splitter coming in to my house to the amplifier, I get a much better signal according to Ceton's specs. (37 SNR -1dbmv), but tuning to channels becomes a horrific experience with channel changes that can take over 3 minutes or they just won't tune at all.

I've also connected directly into the amplifier bypassing the splitter completely, but I can't remember my results with that setup. I know I tried it, but for some reason, I went back to using the splitter.

It looks like I may have to play around with my splitter and amplifier. I do remember one of the service technicians from Charter telling me that I may have to play around with my splitter when the weather gets really cold or hot.

I'm also reporting my findings to Ceton.

[smcmillan2]

Check your temps on the 6 ETH. See g0dM@n's post #842 at http://www.avsforum.com/t/1472563/lates ... thread/840.

Have you checked your tuner's temperatures, specifically during the times you get the weak signal messages? The amount of time it takes to tune your channels has also been attributed to the Infinitv's temperature.

It may be worthwhile to try a different CableCard as Crash2009 mentioned at the beginning of this thread.

Also, make sure the levels you gave above are not from 1 or 2 channels. Frequencies do not necessarily correspond to channel numbers - Higher channel numbers != higher frequencies. It may be that certain frequencies are giving you problems.

My signal strength is consistently between -4.5 and -2 with SNR between 35 - 36.5 across a broad range of channels. I don't experience the weak signal message, but do on occasion get the Service Unavailable message. I believe I have narrowed this down to the tuning adapter, as restarting it usually gets everything working again.

[seangrimes]

Check your temps on the 6 ETH. See g0dM@n's post #842 at http://www.avsforum.com/t/1472563/lates ... thread/840.

Have you checked your tuner's temperatures, specifically during the times you get the weak signal messages? The amount of time it takes to tune your channels has also been attributed to the Infinitv's temperature.

Thanks for the information. I'll check that as soon as I get home.

[Crash2009]

Lots of good signal and temperature utility's in this post. http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 424#p44424

[seangrimes]

Lots of good signal and temperature utility's in this post. http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 424#p44424

Thanks. I'll give it a look!

[barnabas1969]

@seangrimes:

In case you don't already know, signal strength (power) and SNR (quality, S/N, or Signal to Noise Ratio) can vary quite a bit due to many factors. The biggest factor is carrier frequency. The higher the carrier frequency (CF), the lower the signal strength/quality will usually be. CF has nothing to do with the channel number. It is possible for the CF of channel 100 to be higher than channel 1000. The channel number assignment is completely arbitrary.

So... it is important to test the strength/SNR of several channels of varying frequencies in order to get a better picture of your cable service.

Another big factor is outdoor temperature/humidity. Temp can affect the signal at both low and high extremes... but high humidity is usually a signal killer.

Next is water intrusion. If there are any breaks in the outer insulation of the cable (or in any connectors)... on the lines feeding your neighborhood... on the lines IN your neighborhood... on the line feeding your house... there can be a significant degradation.

[seangrimes]

Thanks for the insight barnabas1969. My system has been running fine for the past few days or so with minimal issues. The only issues I seem to have now is an occasional slow or delayed channel change.

For some reason, my Infinitv 6 eth device just wan't liking the signal I was sending to it. However, my signal was right in line with the specifications listed on Ceton's website.

My SNR is now right at 39 with my signal strength ranging from 0.5dbmv to about 4.5dbmv.

Channel change time usually takes anywhere from 3-10 seconds now. I do have some occasions where a channel may take about 20-25 seconds to tune in or just doesn't want to tune in at all. If a channel change doesn't occur, I simply change back and forth from one channel to another to correct the issue. I'm assuming that has more to do with my tuning adapter though.

[barnabas1969]

Based on my experience with the InfiniTV4-PCIe, 3-10 seconds sounds normal. I don't think I ever had it take as long as 20-25 seconds though (well, at least not when it successfully tuned the channel).

You can look in the Tuning Adapter pages on the InfiniTV's web pages. The TA's FDC (Forward Data Channel) strength/power should be +/- 10dB, and the SNR should be 35 or higher. The RDC (Return Data Channel) strength should be 25-50dB, and 35-40 is the "sweet spot". The cable company may tell you that the RDC can be as high as 55dB according to their specs, but I can tell you from experience that it gets iffy at 50dB.

FDC is the "receive" signal. RDC is the "transmit" signal. If either is out of whack, it will cause problems whenever you try to tune to a switched channel. The TA has no effect on non-switched channels (usually the most popular ones are non-switched).

[dbailey75]

Based on my experience with the InfiniTV4-PCIe, 3-10 seconds sounds normal. I don't think I ever had it take as long as 20-25 seconds though (well, at least not when it successfully tuned the channel).

You can look in the Tuning Adapter pages on the InfiniTV's web pages. The TA's FDC (Forward Data Channel) strength/power should be +/- 10dB, and the SNR should be 35 or higher. The RDC (Return Data Channel) strength should be 25-50dB, and 35-40 is the "sweet spot". The cable company may tell you that the RDC can be as high as 55dB according to their specs, but I can tell you from experience that it gets iffy at 50dB.

FDC is the "receive" signal. RDC is the "transmit" signal. If either is out of whack, it will cause problems whenever you try to tune to a switched channel. The TA has no effect on non-switched channels (usually the most popular ones are non-switched).

I've seen several folks post over at AVS that adding a fan to cool their ETH increased their channel change speed, I've never ran into this issue but my ETH runs over 60C in a well ventilated cool place with out a fan, but when I added a 12CM USB powered fan blowing across the unit, temps dropped to the lwo 40's, so the fan really does keep the unit cooler.

[barnabas1969]

I don't know if the temp affects the speed of the channel changes. You can also get lower temps (without a fan) on the ETH by standing it vertically instead of laying it down horizontal.

BTW, the HD HomeRun PRIME has much faster channel changes than the InfiniTV.

[seangrimes]

Based on my experience with the InfiniTV4-PCIe, 3-10 seconds sounds normal. I don't think I ever had it take as long as 20-25 seconds though (well, at least not when it successfully tuned the channel).

You can look in the Tuning Adapter pages on the InfiniTV's web pages. The TA's FDC (Forward Data Channel) strength/power should be +/- 10dB, and the SNR should be 35 or higher. The RDC (Return Data Channel) strength should be 25-50dB, and 35-40 is the "sweet spot". The cable company may tell you that the RDC can be as high as 55dB according to their specs, but I can tell you from experience that it gets iffy at 50dB.

FDC is the "receive" signal. RDC is the "transmit" signal. If either is out of whack, it will cause problems whenever you try to tune to a switched channel. The TA has no effect on non-switched channels (usually the most popular ones are non-switched).

I've seen several folks post over at AVS that adding a fan to cool their ETH increased their channel change speed, I've never ran into this issue but my ETH runs over 60C in a well ventilated cool place with out a fan, but when I added a 12CM USB powered fan blowing across the unit, temps dropped to the lwo 40's, so the fan really does keep the unit cooler.

Thanks guys. I'll try to stand the unit up vertically to see if that helps. My temperature used to be around 52C when it was colder, but has gone up to about 54C now. I may even add a fan to see if that helps anything.

When it was colder outside, my SNR was around 40db and signal strength was around 0.5dbmv to about 4.5dbmv. It dropped to about 36-37 on the SNR the other day while the signal strength stayed about the same. I would get a lot of "service not available" messages in WMC. I went outside and bypassed a splitter I don't need with a straight COAX F81 BARREL CONNECTOR. That seemed to bring my SNR up to about 38, but my signal strength went up to about 8dbmv. Channel changes now average 5-15 seconds.

Not sure if this could be an issue or not, but about 5 years ago, I needed cable runs for a modem, 2 HD tuners, 1 digital tuner and 2 basic cable tuners. A service tech. from Charter installed an amplifier for me because I would get LOTS of internet drop outs. As of now, I need cable for more points in my house; 6 for the Ceton Infinitv 6 eth (6 tuners), one for my TA and one for my cable modem. That's 7 points what I have now vs. the 5 points to which I used to have. Is it possible that I need a different amplifier now? I was told many years back by a service tech. that I was at an unfortunate location in my neighborhood for getting a REALLY good signal. Since I've been with Charter over the past 11 years, they've had to replace one cable because of signal issues.

[barnabas1969]

The InfiniTV does not count as 6 separate drops.

Did you look at the Tuning Adapter's signal page?

[seangrimes]

The InfiniTV does not count as 6 separate drops.

Did you look at the Tuning Adapter's signal page?

I have the Infinitvtv 6 eth and didn't see a page for the tuning adapter that displayed the information you were referring to (Forward Data Channel and Return Data Channel)

I went to my Infinitv's web page, clicked on "Tuning Adapter" and then went to the diagnostic page for my tuning adapter. I'm not at home right now, but I did see some data for upstream and downstream information. Those values are 24dbmv and 27 dbmv. The page also said those numbers were good. i wish I could be more specific, but I'm not at home right now.

[barnabas1969]

I don't have an InfiniTV tuner anymore, and the HDHRP pages are different from the InfiniTV... so I can't tell you exactly what to click on. When you get to the TA's page, there are many different pages listed there. Look for the one which lists signal info.

[seangrimes]

Ok guys. Here is a report on the progress I've made.

I started having the dreaded "Playready" issue and I must say that it was a nightmare. None of the online fixes for me. Even a few fixes that worked for me in the past didn't work. What I ended up doing was unplugging ALL of my networking components such as my Infinitv 6 eth including the tuning adapter, switch, modem and router for 2 hours. After getting everything back up, the Playready issue went away. I also noticed the my temperatures on my Ceton device went from 52C to about 45C after being up and running for more than 12 hours after I rebooted everything.

As far as my cable signals goes, I haven't been having much issues on that end anymore. For some reason though, either WMC or my Infinitv 6 eth prefers a higher than acceptable SNR number. In my case, 38 seems to be the number where I don't have any issues. It seems like I get faster channel changes when that number is higher. I only seem to have issues with my signal if anything higher than +8dbmv.

[barnabas1969]

Higher SNR is better. There is no upper-limit for SNR. Signal strength, on the other hand, has both upper- and lower-acceptable limits.