New HTPC set up woes

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Gatman

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New HTPC set up woes

#1

Post by Gatman » Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:29 pm

Hi folks,

New to media center. Apologies for the long post - I wanted to include details about what's happened and what I've done already. I am looking to get rid of my cable equipment and replace it with an HTPC running WMC. I've got all my equipment in my profile. I had purchased a Ceton InfiniTV 6 Eth and played with that for a couple weeks on my "old clunker" PC and everything ran well. I went ahead did some research and shopping, and built my own HTPC a few weeks back. To say things haven't gone smoothly would be an understatement, but through a lot of Googling and reading on this board, I've got it mostly working now. I definitely hadn't anticipated some of the nuances of hooking it up to a receiver and a projector.

My two biggest problems were audio and video (which is really just about everything, isn't it?) I had initially intended to bring the audio from the PC to my receiver via the HDMI cable. My cable provider (WOW) has Dolby Digital audio, and I had intended to just pass this through. This worked fine until the day I decided to try and hook up my Belkin @TV (Slingbox knock off) using the analog audio out from the PC. Sound switched to stereo, and no amount of tinkering ever got it back. I reinstalled Win 7 and still couldn't get the sound to be anything other than two-channel stereo, so I picked up a digital optical cable Friday and ran audio through that. WOW. Amazing improvement. I do have one question on this though. When I turn to a channel, it says Dolby Digital on the screen (which is what WOW sends, but the Realtek audio in the PC is outputting DTS, and DTS is what shows up on the receiver. Is this a problem? Is the PC converting DD to DTS, and does it matter? I will say this: it sounds a lot better than it did when the cable box was hooked up and it was DD. I'm pleased with the sound, but am curious what those with more knowledge in this area have to say about this set up, and if there's any way to just pass the DD signal WOW sends without modifying it. I wear hearing aids at the ripe old age of 48, so I'm not always the best judge of good audio. :-)

The current problem I have been unable to solve is stuttering video on my premium channels. It's not on every movie, but I can't seem to identify a pattern. I'm using the Intel HD 4600 graphics, and I've found all sorts of threads on the 59/29 "bug" and what setting to change to solve it (turning off Contrast Enhancement in the advance settings is supposed to fix this). There is a setting right below that called "Film Mode Detection" that I've tried both on and off, but it doesn't resolve the problem either. The problem isn't quite as bad with Contract Enhancement off, but it's still there. I have video going from the HTPC to the reciever via HDMI, and then via HDMI from the receiver to the projector. There's also a blue ray player hooked to the receiver. Projector only has one HDMI input, so switching is done by the receiver. Some movies recorded on my premium channels have the stutter, and some recorded movies don't. Sometimes I get it on live TV, and sometimes I don't. If a movie does it, it does it consistently for the entire movie. It looks like frames are dropped every few seconds. This is driving me nuts, and it's keeping me from plunking down the cash for an Xbox 360 to use as an extender. System bios is up to date, and all drivers are up to date, too.

Last question. When I switched the audio over to digital, I went into the bios and shut off the audio over HDMI since I wasn't going to use it. Play Ready started tossing up errors on some channels, but not all. Turning the audio over HDMI back on seems to have resolved this problem. Is Play Ready really THAT sensitive to changes?

Thanks!

Gary

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Crash2009

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#2

Post by Crash2009 » Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:33 am

Sounds like things are coming along quite nicely. Just a couple more quirks to iron out.

A couple questions came to mind while reading your post.

1- The Clunker.....What brand/speed was the NIC? What kind/speed are you using now?
2- What router and switch('s) brand/speed are you using and how do you have that cabled?

epayson85

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#3

Post by epayson85 » Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:04 am

I wouldn't disable the audio in HDMI via the bios. Do it via the audio settings in the control panel. Just disable the component / device.

As far as the 29/59 bug goes. First make sure you actually have it. I happen to have almost same board on a build I just started for my parents. I have the micro atx. I ended up putting a gt610 in it just to make sure I have something a little more reliable in case I ran into this issue. While watching premium channels with the stuttering, pull up the debug / diag info. To do this again while watching live TV then press 411 then quickly "info" (so the channel doesn't change) on your remote. This will bring up the debug screen. If you don't have a remote type 411 then quickly press ctrl-d. Then watch the diag info. If the refresh rate keeps changing from 29 to 59 then you know that's your issue. If not then you know there is something wrong with the tuner, your network, or the cable company. If you have the bug and have tried every setting on the onboard video, then I would try another video card.

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Gatman

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#4

Post by Gatman » Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:21 pm

Thanks for the responses. Here's some info:

Crash2009 - both PC's have Intel NICs and drivers are up to date. I don't recall the model numbers of the NICs off hand (on the media center PC it's the onboard nic - one of the reasons I selected this MB was for the Intel nic onboard). All hardware is gigabit and cabling is 5e. I've recorded 5 shows while watching a sixth without trouble, so I had ruled out network problems.

epayson85 - thanks for the direction on how to get to the debug data. I had seen it referred to a few times, but hadn't quite figured out the exact command. Looks like I do have the 29/59 bug. Every movie I had recorded and all my live tv on the premium channels were switching from 29 to 59 fps. Regular tv was always at 59fps. The movies I THOUGHT did not display this problem actually do have it - just much less pronounced. They only occasionally switch, whereas the ones where it's more pronounced are switching almost constantly.

This is really burning my biscuit. I had specifically opted for the 4th generation i5 with onboard video to avoid having to pick up a separate video card. I have room for the card (it's an ITX motherboard, so I've got the one slot), but I really didn't want to have the additional heat a card would generate. I might go over to the Intel support boards and complain a bit. I also might grab the latest beta driver and see what that does for me (I don't think I have anything to lose at this point).

Installing a new video card is going to send Play Ready on a trip down the rabbit hole, isn't it? I guess that's ok since even after turning the HDMI audio back on I'm still getting random Play Ready update notices that fail to update. Sigh.

I did notice that the audio codec being received from the cable co. is Dolby 6-channel PCM. Does anyone know if there's a way to get my onboard Realtek HD audio to just pass it through instead of outputting DTS?

Lastly, any recommendations on a video card that won't break the bank? I have one PCIe 3.0 x16 slot, and my case can handle one of the "double-wide" cards that usually have their own exhaust port to keep the heat out of the case.

Thanks,

Gary

epayson85

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#5

Post by epayson85 » Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:35 pm

As far as the card and play ready goes, they will play with each other a lot better than the Intel video. However I have never had issues with Intel and play ready before only the 29/59 bug. The only thing I can think if is did you run play ready install / TV initial setup on a computer monitor via VGA or dvi before moving the PC to your main TV?

With the heat I would try to find a card that is cometely passive for cooling. The gt610 for example is just an under clocked gt430. The gt430 in my opinion is the best video card for an htpc but unfortunately they don't make them anymore. The gt610 doesn't have the kick the 430 has but it gets the job done. I found an Asus card on amazon for $40 I think, it that just has a giant heat sync on it.

With audio you need to go into your audio device settings. Select the optical out and go to its properties. I can't remember because I am not at a computer but the 2nd or last tab is going to have a setting for DTS. There is a software encoder built into your audio that will turn any sound source into DTS audio. Disable it and see what you get. You may need to enable bit streaming for any media files you have but for live TV you should just need to do your speaker setup to let windows know what you have. I use shark 007 for bit streaming and love the results. If you go that route just be sure to hit skip on all the nasty adware that installs with it. Personally though I love the DTS results because it makes any 2.0 audio I have sound amazing like Netflix and there is pretty much no change to my live TV or movies. How it does it is a mystery to me. On Netflix there are no voices coming from my back channels just music and sound effects.... Its pretty impressive. You will have none of these issues going through just HDMI though and might have better results with using a dedicated card.

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Gatman

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#6

Post by Gatman » Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:06 am

I grabbed a GT610 on sale at the local MicroCenter and installed it Sunday. I am still having 29/59 problems. The picture is much improved, but I still notice a very, very slight stutter on premium channels (although it is very infrequent and barely perceptible). Checking the diagnositics, I see one of two different scenarios depending on the channel: either 1) it shows it rapidly switching between 59 and 29 so fast the number if just looks like a flashing 59, or 2) it will generally stay on 29.97 and occasionally switch to 59.9 for a split second or a few seconds and then go back to 29.97. I do get Dolby Digital over the HDMI from the new video card though. I grabbed the latest stable drivers from the nVidia website and installed those after installing the new card.

I tried uninstalling the Intel video drivers and I disabled that display device in device manager and rebooted, but the problem is still there. I can't think of much else to try besides a fresh install of Windows 7. If anyone has any other ideas to try before I go that route I'm all ears.

Thanks,

Gary

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#7

Post by epayson85 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:47 am

You are going to need to find the nvidia drivers that work best for your setup. I haven't updated my drivers in a couple years on my main htpc. I haven't really kept up with how the latest drivers are doing with this issue. I know it was older beta drivers that fixed this issue. I am still working on my build but I will get it connected to my prime this weekend and test it with some different drivers to let you know what I find.

Mike88

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#8

Post by Mike88 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:47 am

I'm using an Intel G620 dual core Pentium & had a stuttering problem with some older OTA SD programs when using the integrated graphics. The info screen would show a blip between 29 & 59 fps when the stutter occurred. I used an inexpensive HD6450 video card & it fixed the stutter. I'm not saying that will help in your case but it worked wonders for my problem.

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#9

Post by Dragonfly » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:55 pm

Mike88 wrote:I'm using an Intel G620 dual core Pentium & had a stuttering problem with some older OTA SD programs when using the integrated graphics. The info screen would show a blip between 29 & 59 fps when the stutter occurred. I used an inexpensive HD6450 video card & it fixed the stutter. I'm not saying that will help in your case but it worked wonders for my problem.
Another vote here for the HD6450. I've had no stutter problems since installing this card. They're dirt cheap, too.

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