Ceton issue recording ESPN College Gameplan

[gpatlanta]

Hi,

First, I think this is likely somethung onky erkotz may be able to help with. Last year i got my infinitv 4 halfway through the college football season. At the time i had a Time Warner Cable DVR (which i hate btw compared to MC). Btw, it was a cablecard DVR. On my DVR i never had an issue recording from the gameday plan. However, my Infinitv card wouldnt record. It clai ed that the gameday stream was copy never. I put in a request to ceton and never got it resolved and ultimate closed it after football season. So here i am a few weeks into this season and have the same issue. If the stream isntruly coded asncopy never, then how csn the TWC DVR record the games? That implies either their DVR is not followihg cablecard rules OR thr infinitv is incorrectly reading the stream right? I really dont want to have to oick p a TWC DVR every season for the games i need to record.

Thanks, Greg

[Scallica]

While the recording is in progress, go to your tuner's diagnostic page and look at the bottom of the status page. You will see the flag that is currently enforced. For example:

Copy Protection: Copy Control Information: "Copy Free" (00)

I believe, but I could be mistaken, that cable providers are only allowed to use the copy-never flag on PPV events. In your case, if the flag is copy-never, I would definitely give TWC a call and ask to speak to someone knowledgeable with CableCards.

[richard1980]

This was a big problem last year, but I thought Ceton resolved it with updated firmware. I could be mistaken though.

[erkotz]

In addition to what Scallica asked, what hwimage and fwimage are you running?

[gpatlanta]

In addition to what Scallica asked, what hwimage and fwimage are you running?

I am on the latest beta firmwares, but havent installed the latest installer app, but that seems to be minor fixes and new MC screens only. when i put in the ticket last year, ceton told me it was showing copy never. If i recall, the issues resolved last year were specific to NFL games. This is my paid college gameday plan. It is not pay per veiw and i can record with TWCs own DVR, but not the Ceton card.

[gpatlanta]

While the recording is in progress, go to your tuner's diagnostic page and look at the bottom of the status page. You will see the flag that is currently enforced. For example:

Copy Protection: Copy Control Information: "Copy Free" (00)

I believe, but I could be mistaken, that cable providers are only allowed to use the copy-never flag on PPV events. In your case, if the flag is copy-never, I would definitely give TWC a call and ask to speak to someone knowledgeable with CableCards.

I will try this again on Saturday, but Ceton last year said it was copy never from what they saw and it literally doesnt allow the recording saying something to the effect that it is flagged so that recording is not allowed.

[erkotz]

I remember this coming up last year, but don't remember the details of it. If it's truly flagged copy never (which can be confirmed from a diagnostic capture while tuned to the channel, there's nothing we can do from a technical standpoint.
From a political standpoint, we can certainly try and reach out to an MSO and work with them, but their hands may be tied. In a worst-case scenario, an FCC complaint may be an option, but I'm not sure they are actually doing anything illegal (I know copy never is frowned upon for uses like this, but I'm not sure it's actually against policies - I'd have to look that up)

[gpatlanta]

I remember this coming up last year, but don't remember the details of it. If it's truly flagged copy never (which can be confirmed from a diagnostic capture while tuned to the channel, there's nothing we can do from a technical standpoint.
From a political standpoint, we can certainly try and reach out to an MSO and work with them, but their hands may be tied. In a worst-case scenario, an FCC complaint may be an option, but I'm not sure they are actually doing anything illegal (I know copy never is frowned upon for uses like this, but I'm not sure it's actually against policies - I'd have to look that up)

I think this is a fair point. However, if they are sending as copy never, shouldn't their own cablecard dvr being following cablecard rules as well? If nobody can copy those channels and that is policy i can deal i guess although am less inclined to order the package. However, if they are breaking cablecard rules for their own systems, isnt that illegal or at least against thebFCC mandate? This is my biggest point. If they turn off recording for anyone that has their DVR i am sure there would be a huge backlash...but DVR shouldnt be abke to record a copy never show either, right?

[erkotz]

I think this is a fair point. However, if they are sending as copy never, shouldn't their own cablecard dvr being following cablecard rules as well? If nobody can copy those channels and that is policy i can deal i guess although am less inclined to order the package. However, if they are breaking cablecard rules for their own systems, isnt that illegal or at least against thebFCC mandate? This is my biggest point. If they turn off recording for anyone that has their DVR i am sure there would be a huge backlash...but DVR shouldnt be abke to record a copy never show either, right?

So here's the problem. The operator's own boxes don't have to be CableLabs certified - so they are (potentially) able to ignore copy never. Is it fair? No, but that's how it is today.
We could see what the CableCARD in the STB shows the same channel as perhaps?

[richard1980]

(I know copy never is frowned upon for uses like this, but I'm not sure it's actually against policies - I'd have to look that up)

It's covered in the Plug and Play agreement: "Pay television, non-premium subscription television, and free conditional access delivery transmissions – one generation of copies is the most stringent restriction that may be imposed"

Just for clarification, the definitions of those three terms are also covered in the plug and play agreement. The three terms cover all the "normal" TV channels, including premium movie channels. Basically, the only things that can be copy never are VOD, PPV, and subscription on demand type services.

[gpatlanta]

So by that i should be able to record and they shouldn't be sending copy never. Assuming i confirm tomorrow it is copy never, what can i do about it with TWC?

[erkotz]

If it is copy never, get me a diagnostic capture while it's occurring, open a ticket, and say to send it to me. I'll ask some TWC contacts and see where that gets us.

[gpatlanta]

If it is copy never, get me a diagnostic capture while it's occurring, open a ticket, and say to send it to me. I'll ask some TWC contacts and see where that gets us.

Confirmed in the web diagnostic page. It is definitely coming across as copy never just like last year.

erkotz, i have opened a ticket: #QQE-769-30038

I really don't like paying $20/month during football season for a DVR I don't even like or want (in truth I absolutely hate their DVR). Luckily so far this season I have been able to be at my house for all the games I wanted to watch on the plan, but I would love to have this resolved as it is clearly wrong.

Thanks erkotz for any help you can provide and of course thank you Richard for the guidance as well.

[erkotz]

Greg - I've got your ticket - I'll follow up with you there.

[gpatlanta]

Thanks. Also, I should have thanked Scallica in my last post too.

[erkotz]

Greg, do you by chance have an STB also - if so, what brand/model is it? I would like to see what it thinks the CCI is.

[gpatlanta]

I dont have a DVR since as i haven't needed one yet this season since i have been able to watch on Saturdays so far. I do have a regular HD STB non-DVR. Can i use that to check somehow? It is a SA 8200HD i think.

[erkotz]

Greg, does the STB have an (internal) CableCARD?
You can enter the diagnostic menus of the STB using the instructions at http://www.dslreports.com/faq/sciatl/3. ... ic_screens - I know the CCI is visible on boxes with a CableCARD, not sure on ones without it.

[gpatlanta]

Greg, does the STB have an (internal) CableCARD?
You can enter the diagnostic menus of the STB using the instructions at http://www.dslreports.com/faq/sciatl/3. ... ic_screens - I know the CCI is visible on boxes with a CableCARD, not sure on ones without it.

Oops, I was mistaken. My old box was the 8200 which was my DVR. The only box I have now appears to be non cablecard. It is a 3250HD. I did figure out how to get diagnostics on it and saw nothing related to copy status flag on any channels including one that was PPV.

[gpatlanta]

Hi erkotz. Any update on this by chance? Thankfully I have my game tonight on regular channels again so recording is not a problem this week.

Thanks, Greg