Looking to replace Tivo - Thinking about Ceton

[blueiedgod]

If you want reliability go with Tivo.

Not according to TiVO forums.

[STC]

^ I have to +1 this.

MC is a labor of love. A definite enthusiast product simply due to all the combinations of hardware and software that the user futzes together blindly crossing their fingers it will all work 24/7.

I have stability but at a price. I have to work at various bugs and glitches that crop up unexpectedly.

I have an old TiVo HD. It just works. Horses for courses.

[blueiedgod]

But on the flip side, lifetime Tivos do have decent resale value and a PC does not.

Only if you stick someone with an obsolete product. TiVO with an NTSC tuner with a lifetime sub is worthless. There is no upgrade path with a CE appliance.

[blueiedgod]

I can understand all the reasons why someone would choose a WMC setup over a Tivo or other CE-oriented DVR. But c'mon guys -- we can't seriously be discussing whether a WMC is more reliable than a Tivo, or a DirecTV setup, or a cable STB, right? We all know that's just not the case. Even if your WMC runs for months without issues, there's still the rebooting, rerunning tuner setup, missing tuners, guide update failures, lost extender connections, extenders that won't boot, network snafus, and other problems inherent in the typical WMC setup that just don't exist with most CE-level devices.

If all of those solutions were as bullet proof as people who push them want you to believe, then there wouldn't be service techs and service calls, because "once everything is set up it never breaks"

Reality tends to differ. STBs, DVR's, TiVO's, Dish receivers, all fail, and people have to wait for a tech to come out and fix it. Sometimes, they have to wait all day at home because the "window is between 8 am and 6 pm".

If wMC can be fixed with a reboot, most CE appliances can not. I take the occasional reboot than wasting a day to wait for someone who knows less than me to bring me a replacement box.

[kd6icz]

I can understand all the reasons why someone would choose a WMC setup over a Tivo or other CE-oriented DVR. But c'mon guys -- we can't seriously be discussing whether a WMC is more reliable than a Tivo, or a DirecTV setup, or a cable STB, right? We all know that's just not the case. Even if your WMC runs for months without issues, there's still the rebooting, rerunning tuner setup, missing tuners, guide update failures, lost extender connections, extenders that won't boot, network snafus, and other problems inherent in the typical WMC setup that just don't exist with most CE-level devices.

If all of those solutions were as bullet proof as people who push them want you to believe, then there wouldn't be service techs and service calls, because "once everything is set up it never breaks"

Reality tends to differ. STBs, DVR's, TiVO's, Dish receivers, all fail, and people have to wait for a tech to come out and fix it. Sometimes, they have to wait all day at home because the "window is between 8 am and 6 pm".

If WMC can be fixed with a reboot, most CE appliances can not. I take the occasional reboot than wasting a day to wait for someone who knows less than me to bring me a replacement box.

Speaking for my two Tivo HD units I can honestly say they NEVER in the 6 years I owned them hiccuped one single time. The only time I had to reboot them is when the turning adapter got a software update. That's it! They are very reliable workhorses! Maybe that's what you're paying for...?

For the record Tivo is Linux based and not CE based. Which is probably why they work so well.

[barnabas1969]

For the record Tivo is Linux based and not CE based. Which is probably why they work so well.

CE = Consumer Electronics. Many CE devices run Linux. That doesn't mean they don't have flaws.

[IownFIVEechos]

For the record Tivo is Linux based and not CE based. Which is probably why they work so well.

CE = Consumer Electronics. Many CE devices run Linux. That doesn't mean they don't have flaws.

Clearly he can not be blamed for the confusion right?

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms905511.aspx

[aeblank]

My replaytv units rebooted themselves every day. Does tivo do the same? I could set my htpc to do that automatically.

[barnabas1969]

For the record Tivo is Linux based and not CE based. Which is probably why they work so well.

CE = Consumer Electronics. Many CE devices run Linux. That doesn't mean they don't have flaws.

Clearly he can not be blamed for the confusion right?

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms905511.aspx

Yes, I knew he was thinking about Windows CE.

[barnabas1969]

My replaytv units rebooted themselves every day. Does tivo do the same? I could set my HTPC to do that automatically.

Mine is already set. See here:
http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 333#p71333

[blueiedgod]

Speaking for my two Tivo HD units I can honestly say they NEVER in the 6 years I owned them hiccuped one single time. The only time I had to reboot them is when the turning adapter got a software update. That's it! They are very reliable workhorses! Maybe that's what you're paying for...?

Isn't TiVO HD like the slowest of the TiVO's?

People complain about Legacy extenders being slow. When I saw TiVO HD in operation at a friend's house, it was slower than a Linksys extender on wi-fi B connection. So, if being EXTREMELY slow is not a hiccup, and you are OK with that, then you can call it reliable.

Sure, it worked, but you had to wait 5 minutes for the guide to scroll. 2 hours to transfer a show from one TiVO to another, so that you can enjoy on the TV in a different room.

It wasn't until 2013 Roamio that TiVO got close to WMC experience circa 2003.

[kd6icz]

Speaking for my two Tivo HD units I can honestly say they NEVER in the 6 years I owned them hiccuped one single time. The only time I had to reboot them is when the turning adapter got a software update. That's it! They are very reliable workhorses! Maybe that's what you're paying for...?

Isn't TiVO HD like the slowest of the TiVO's?

People complain about Legacy extenders being slow. When I saw TiVO HD in operation at a friend's house, it was slower than a Linksys extender on wi-fi B connection. So, if being EXTREMELY slow is not a hiccup, and you are OK with that, then you can call it reliable.

Sure, it worked, but you had to wait 5 minutes for the guide to scroll. 2 hours to transfer a show from one TiVO to another, so that you can enjoy on the TV in a different room.

It wasn't until 2013 Roamio that TiVO got close to WMC experience circa 2003.

I never noticed it being slow. I had one of mine stock with a 160GB HD and one modified with a 500GB HD. They both worked fine. The YouTube app was really slow but just everyday DVR function was good.

[tzr916]

I had a Tivo Elite for about 12 months. It would freeze up, or spontaneously reboot, get stutter in the video, go black screen, about every 3-4 weeks. Usually requiring a hard reboot to get normal operation.

AFTER a few months worth of getting the bugs out of my HTPC & extenders, I am now right around the same glitch every 3-4 weeks requiring reboot situation.

[barnabas1969]

It wasn't until 2013 Roamio that TiVO got close to WMC experience circa 2003.

And that's why I didn't go with TiVo when I first decided to build/buy a whole-home DVR solution in 2011. If the Roamio/Mini had existed then, I probably would have bought them, even though they cost more. But I'm already invested in Media Center now.

[kingwr]

For the record Tivo is Linux based and not CE based. Which is probably why they work so well.

CE = Consumer Electronics. Many CE devices run Linux. That doesn't mean they don't have flaws.

Clearly he can not be blamed for the confusion right?

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms905511.aspx

Yes, because in talking about current DirecTV, Tivo, and other STBs, I was clearly alluding to a development platform abandoned by Microsoft over 7 years ago.

[adam1991]

Well guys I'm only giving my experience with WMC vs. Tivo.

@adam1991. You must have been drunk when you posted. My math is right on the money. I only have two TV's so I would only need one Tivo and one mini.

You must have been drunk when you wrote what you originally wrote, because you quoted TWO XBoxen in your HTPC cost analysis.

You must be drunk now as well; either you haven't bothered to go back and read what you wrote, or you're unable to read what you wrote.

Or--now here's an idea--you're unWILLING to read what you wrote, and are barreling through anyway regardless of how it makes you look.

[adam1991]

I had nothing. So two Xbox's, Ceton PCIe 6, Intel i3, 8GB RAM, Intel motherboard, 3TB HDD, 32GB SSD, case, power supply, and DVD drive. All that added up together is $1400. A new 3TB Tivo with lifetime subscription is $1069 from Weaknees. A Tivo mini is $249 with lifetime subscription. So in my case it would have been cheaper.

What's that you say? Your HTPC cost of $1400 included TWO XBOXES?

And then you come in and claim that your Tivo cost analysis includes only ONE SINGLE TIVO MINI, and it's $82 cheaper than your HTPC, therefore...what?

Have you ever heard the term "apples to apples"? As in, "your HTPC vs Tivo cost comparison that you're using to "justify" the $82 cheaper Tivo system is not apples to apples."?

[kd6icz]

I had nothing. So two Xbox's, Ceton PCIe 6, Intel i3, 8GB RAM, Intel motherboard, 3TB HDD, 32GB SSD, case, power supply, and DVD drive. All that added up together is $1400. A new 3TB Tivo with lifetime subscription is $1069 from Weaknees. A Tivo mini is $249 with lifetime subscription. So in my case it would have been cheaper.

What's that you say? Your HTPC cost of $1400 included TWO XBOXES?

And then you come in and claim that your Tivo cost analysis includes only ONE SINGLE TIVO MINI, and it's $82 cheaper than your HTPC, therefore...what?

Have you ever heard the term "apples to apples"? As in, "your HTPC vs Tivo cost comparison that you're using to "justify" the $82 cheaper Tivo system is not apples to apples."?

All I can say is WOW! I'm sorry man... If I could draw you a picture in crayon I would. Maybe someone else can explain.

[makryger]

I had nothing. So two Xbox's, Ceton PCIe 6, Intel i3, 8GB RAM, Intel motherboard, 3TB HDD, 32GB SSD, case, power supply, and DVD drive. All that added up together is $1400. A new 3TB Tivo with lifetime subscription is $1069 from Weaknees. A Tivo mini is $249 with lifetime subscription. So in my case it would have been cheaper.

What's that you say? Your HTPC cost of $1400 included TWO XBOXES?

And then you come in and claim that your Tivo cost analysis includes only ONE SINGLE TIVO MINI, and it's $82 cheaper than your HTPC, therefore...what?

Have you ever heard the term "apples to apples"? As in, "your HTPC vs Tivo cost comparison that you're using to "justify" the $82 cheaper Tivo system is not apples to apples."?

All I can say is WOW! I'm sorry man... If I could draw you a picture in crayon I would. Maybe someone else can explain.

Basically, he's saying that he does not want to use the HTPC to watch TV, only to stream to extenders. Which is why he wants two extenders, but only one Tivo mini. But again, if you only need two TVs to watch your content, there are ways to build an HTPC so that it can sit under your TV too. This is my HTPC- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811163233 - and it fits very well into my AV equipment. Now, if you have an HTPC up on a wall, then maybe you want a smaller unit. Or, you could jsut string HDMI over to the TV from a hidden HTPC. Whatever the case may be, there are ways to save money if you're willing to use the HTPC as a content provider, and not just distributor.

[adam1991]

He suddenly justifies his faulty cost analysis on some invented, pulled-out-of-thin-air, never before revealed "requirement" that he not plug his HTPC into his TV, but that he uses XBox alone to plug into his TV?

Where did THIS requirement come from? Oh, that's right--nowhere. It popped up suddenly when he realized that he screwed up his own math (because math is hard) and he would rather just barrel on through it.