Windows 8.1 System Commit Issue

[ewtaylo]

So I stupidly updated to Windows 8.1 at the beginning of December and only recently realized that the issues I am seeing on my HTPC are not unique to me. Lots of gamers and XBMC users are complaining as well.

I get a dialog about low memory but looking at task manager I can see that RAM is nowhere near full. It happens when you run full screen programs on your PC. I was able to verify the issue utilizing the graphing feature of Process Explorer from Sysinternals.

I am now trying to figure out how to downgrade to windows 8 without losing all the work I put into getting the system running the way I want it to run.

Of course this issue is causing a rapid decay of the WAF. I searched through the threads here and I see nobody talking about it. Does anyone run WMC under 8.1 with the PC actually attached to a display via the computer? you should be experiencing this issue as well.

My plan right now is to move back to windows 8 and then see if the issue occurs immediately after the upgrade to 8.1 or if a microsoft update is causing it.

Any helpful comments out there?

[choliscott]

Can you tell us about your WMC system (i.e. how much ram, CPU, etc)

[ewtaylo]

sure thing. Intel 4770K i7 located on an ASUS mini-itx board. 16g of RAM. onboard HD 4600 graphics. Computer is not overclocked.

It is running windows 8.1 and it autoboots all the way to live TV. I run a couple of addons: comskip which is run by dvrmstoolbox, dtbaddin, remote potato, ceton MyMC.

[holidayboy]

I'm currently running Win 8.1 direct to a TV and through two extenders with no issues.

[ewtaylo]

holidayboy-

I would like to ask you a few questions to see if I can isolate the problem:
What graphics card are you using to drive the tv?
Do you run WMC in full screen mode on the tv?
Do you leave WMC running on the HTPC 24/7?
Do you turn off the TV with WMC running?
Do you have all Microsoft Updates installed?
What resolution is your desktop running?
what resolution is the TV running at?

Thanks for your response.
Eric

[choliscott]

I'm going to assume he's using the onboard graphics based on his response about his system, as if all he was using it for was an HTPC, he wouldn't need a separate graphics card.

holidayboy-

I would like to ask you a few questions to see if I can isolate the problem:
What graphics card are you using to drive the tv?
Do you run WMC in full screen mode on the tv?
Do you leave WMC running on the HTPC 24/7?
Do you turn off the TV with WMC running?
Do you have all Microsoft Updates installed?
What resolution is your desktop running?
what resolution is the TV running at?

Thanks for your response.
Eric

[ewtaylo]

I currently do not believe that the type of video card affects the issue (I am just asking to get a feel for what is working for people). There are reports of built in video, nvidia and AMD cards having the issue. There are also things that cause the issue to not occur, such as running things in a windows on the TV instead of full screen or having both the refresh rate and resolution of the full screen window match the refresh rate and resolution of the desktop.

So I am still interested in the answers from holidayboy to see if his answers support the workaround that is being used.

I am just attempting to determine a root cause. All input is welcome. Also, this thread may help out others who are having issues with full screen WMC and low memory warnings under windows 8.1.

[holidayboy]

holidayboy-

I would like to ask you a few questions to see if I can isolate the problem:
What graphics card are you using to drive the tv?
Do you run WMC in full screen mode on the tv?
Do you leave WMC running on the HTPC 24/7?
Do you turn off the TV with WMC running?
Do you have all Microsoft Updates installed?
What resolution is your desktop running?
what resolution is the TV running at?

Thanks for your response.
Eric

My system details are shown in my profile - click the small monitor next to "HTPC specs" in my profile window to the left.

GT440 to TV via HDMI (inc audio).

My HTPC sleeps when not In use, but I can turn the TV on/off when it's sleeping, or awake without issue.

I'm using the MST tool to close MC on s3 sleep and restart it on resume in order to cut out any unwanted popups for any missed recording alerts etc..

I can also sleep and resume without any issues if I leave MC running though.

Desktop and MC both run at 1920x1080@50Hz. TV is set to native/just scan.

I have all MS updates installed.

[ewtaylo]

Thanks so much for your post. I can see that at least the following are true: we both have 8.1 with the latest patches installed. We both have the refresh rate and resolutions set identical between the desktop and WMC. We both watch on a tv with WMC in full screen mode.

You are using MST to actually leave and return to WMC when sleep is happening. I think that is very smart and cuts down the chances that you will see the issue. All of my sleep stuff is just set to the 8.1 defaults, so I am not even certain that my HTPC ever tries to sleep. I have been recently thinking that I should put MST on there to get sleep working. If your HTPC is asleep and you turn on an extender, does the HTPC wake up?

I would like to ask one procedural question. If you were watching TV via WMC on the TV attached to your HTPC and you decided to turn off the TV, do you do anything special with WMC before you turn off the TV? Or do you simply turn the TV off while WMC continues to run?

Thanks for your help,
Eric

[holidayboy]

Yes, extenders will wake the PC as required. Also, once an extender wakes the PC, I can turn on the main TV connected to the PC and use MC without issue.

When we finish watching TV, we press stop and then turn off the TV (I have the PC sleep and power buttons set to do nothing in control panel>power options). The PC then sleeps after 15mins.

[ewtaylo]

You are doing a great job limiting your exposure to the bug. I think until microsoft fixes it I will have to add some sort of "alt-F4" command to my Logitech Power Off sequence and a "green button" to my power on. That will fix it. Although your setup is much nicer. I should spend time getting the sleep stuff to work.

So the answer for others who have stumbled onto this thread is that the DirectX 11.2 that is exclusively in Windows 8.1 is causing the memory commit issue being seen by users who have full screen graphics at a different refresh rate / resolution than their desktop. Apparently all DirectX 11 calls are being forced to use 11.2 in Windows 8.1 and there is some incompatibility.

For me the issue is when I turn off the TV (while WMC is still in full screen mode) windows changes the desktop resolution to 1024 x 768. Since my WMC is set to 1920 x 1080 the mismatch occurs and the system commit level starts taking over my physical RAM. If the TV is off long enough the WMC executable will crash. The funny part is that WMC does not even have to be playing live or recorded video. It can just be sitting at the main menu and the behavior occurs.

Possible solutions: As mentioned above change the TV power of/on sequences to kill WMC and restart it.
Change the version of DirectX WMC uses. I have no idea if that is possible
Some sort of hack to keep Windows desktop using the 1920x1080 resolution even if the TV is off. Again, not sure if that is even possible.
Roll back to Windows 7 or 8. Included for completeness. UGH! I dont want to have to do all that setup work again.
Here is an interesting one: Is it possible to have WMC match the resolution that is in use on the desktop? So if the desktop changes to 1024 x 768 WMC will match it and then when I turn the TV on WMC will move back to 1920 x 1080? Seems like that would fix the issue as well.

Thank you, holidayboy, for your help in chasing down options for people who are experiencing this issue.

If anyone has any thoughts on the list of options presented above I would love to hear them.

[holidayboy]

You could maybe try using moninfo to create a custom monitor driver - one that just runs at 1080p@60, rather than using the default plug&play monitor driver?

Probably won't help but worth a shot....


http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm

[ewtaylo]

Oh I think I might have it now. Using your tip I have searched the internet some more and come across this:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1387832/htpc- ... t_22540175

the title is: Stop Resolution Change When Display or Receiver is Turned Off

I am going to try the registry hack to keep everything at 1920x1080.

Ill report back if I have worked around the windows 8.1 issue.

[ewtaylo]

Well, mark this one as complete.

I was able to "work around" the DirectX 11.2 issue in Windows 8.1 by following the post I linked above. After using regedit to modify 5 entries I can now leave WMC running and turn off power to my TV. When I turn it back on, the System Commit level looks just like it did before I turned off the TV.

Here is hoping that Microsoft actually fixes the issue because it affects the game players much more than it does us.

Thanks for listening and letting me ask questions.

[3rob3]

Wow, what a timely post. Thanks for following up! I just built a new HTPC last night and decided to try out 8.1. Pretty impressed so far. Everything is very quick, this thing boots in like 8 seconds!

Anyway, got it all set up last night, turned the TV off and went to bed. Checked it this morning and had the error messages described above. I turned off the Slideshow Screen Saver thinking it may have something to do with it (do ypu have that turned on?), went to work and came back to no errors. I am guessing I will see them again according to what you've said so if it does I will try your fix. Thanks again!

[ewtaylo]

3rob3-

I do not have the slide show turned on. However, I do not believe having it on or off will affect this issue.

My mode of operation is that WMC is always running in the foreground on this HTPC. I want it to emulate a STB as much as possible. So the family powers on the TV, uses WMC, then powers off the TV.

If you plan on using your HTPC in the same manner then make the 5 registry changes (2 x PrimSurfSize, 2 x ActiveSize and 1 x Stride). I only had to change the keys in the "Simulated" tree. I believe that is the key utilized when the display is powered off. I know the true answer lies with Microsoft fixing the issue with differing resolutions, but who knows when that will happen.

I have been watching my System Commit level all night long and it looks exactly as it should. I am excited that for the first time in about 3 months I wont have to be worrying about whether or not WMC is still running when I am not home.

[3rob3]

Well, it happened again last night so I attempted your fix. Problem is I saw nothing under the Configuration key called "Simulated". There were a couple of keys that started with MSI (my motherboard), and one that started with Vizio (my TV). The Vizio keys were already set correctly, one of the MSI keys was not so I changed it. Did I miss something?

Know of any quicker way to test if it worked? I have left it for 5 hours with no problem, but it happens if I leave it overnight.

[ewtaylo]

3rob3-

I had the issue again as well. It seems as if the fix I made worked for awhile and then late it did not. I am unsure if perhaps my system slept and when it came back up it chose another profile from that area that was still using 1024x768. I had 7 or 8 trees in regedit and I only changed one. So I am going to have to work through it some more. Right now I am going to back my change out in order to do the following.

On the threads over on the Microsoft boards, someone said reverting to an older driver fixes it. I have transitioned back to 3257 and I should be able to tell after work if that has any affect on the situation. I just completed a task of going to a bunch of motherboard sites and downloading their Intel HD Drivers. So I will be testing them tonight to see if they provide a solution.

Hang in there with me and we will get it working.

Eric

[3rob3]

Thanks. I had to revert my registry changes. One of them changed the font size of the task bar and Metro start menu. Guess I will try the older driver and will report back.

[3rob3]

Well, I installed the Intel video driver from my motherboards website (which was older than what I got via Windows Update) and I didn't have the problem last night. Fingers crossed!