HDMI audio problem in WMC 7 with multiple tuners

[jerryj26]

I've encountered an audio problem on a fresh HTPC upgrgade that did not happen on the old

system. Whenever I change channels in WMC the video immediately displays but there is a

click or pop then a 1 or 2 second silence then the audio resumes. Sometimes this will cycle

several times before going away. On some channels there is no audio at all.

I am located in northern new jersey and use CableVision using QAM256.

Here are the current specs as well as what they replaced.

Zalman HD160XT HTPC Enclosure

Zalman ZM600-HP Power Supply

ASUS Crossfire II motherboard with on-board NVIDIA nForce 780a VGA and HDMI
Replaced ASUS Crossfire I and MSI NX7600GT (S-Video and HDMI)

AMD Phenom II X4 955 Processor 3.21 Ghz
Replaced AMD Phenom X2

Zalman CPNS9500 AM2 CPU Cooler

4 - 1 GB Crucial PC2-6400 memory modules, upgraded from 2GB

2 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.1 2TB SATA II hard drives (RAID 1)
Replaced single Seagate 750GB SATA II hard drive

1 - Ceton InfiniTV4 CableCARD Tuner
Added to new system

Samsung SATA SH-B321L Blu-ray Disc Re-Writer
Replaced LG BH08 PATA DVD burner

Mitsubishi WD-52525 52" DLP TV (Component, VGA and HDMI)

Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1
Replaced Microsoft Vista Home Premium 32-bit SP1

Shark007 Codec pack and 64-bit components

TMT5

Tuner Salad and MCL

This problem does not happen in either WMP or WMC when playing music but sometimes when

playing videos in WMC. It does not happen during the playing back of recorded TV. BTW: the BTV

add-in is installing but not showing up in WMC Tasks.

It happens on prectically all channels with both tuners and I've tried a different HDMI cable. I've also checked the

CETON Diag program and am getting good signal strength and SNRs and it is able to tune in

multipule channels on each tuner.

All drivers are current and I am not running any anti-virus because I discovered it

interfered with WTV.

Another symptom is that sometimes I get a subscription error when tuning a channel and then

it will tune in anyway after dismissing the prompt.

I do not believe it is a tuner problem since it happens on both tuners and not in any

recorded TV. It might be an HDDMI problem but the NVIDIA CP shows good HDCP compatiblity.

I did this build in my office on a monitor with descrete speakers and then moved it upstairs

to the tv using HDMI, that's when I found out about it.

Any help with this appreciated and also, this has been a complete fail of the Wife Test.

I'll never hear the end of it.

TAGS: WMC 7 pop click TV channel change no audio

[jerryj26]

OK, I've gotten some more info which I think points to the HTPC itself. I connected my daughters laptop via HDMI and played those vidoes and recorded TV and it played flawlessly. I also played the recorded TV shows that have been problematic, like Person of Interest (the worst) on my Windows 7 PC downstairs and ot also played without a problem.

I guess this points to the HTPC itself. I've tried different drivers and usio configurations, but no luck.

I'm now open to rebuild considerations but here are a few of my own.

Banish .FLV, .FLAC and .MOV files, I can convert those to other formats with Wondershare video convertor.

try the native Microsoft audio drivers first if they are available.

Not even connect the touchscreen to the motherboard since it really doesn't work with Windows 7 anyway.

Any other recommendations are welcome.

[milli260876]

What speeds are the new hard drives? Possibly to do with the live tv buffer if recordings are ok ??

[milli260876]

Oh and Microsoft security essentials doesn't interfere with WMC if U do want some antivirus...

[newfiend]

Have you tried uninstalling the codec pack? Those can sometimes do more harm than good.

Sent from my WP7 using Board Express

[jerryj26]

What speeds are the new hard drives? Possibly to do with the live tv buffer if recordings are ok ??

I stated the wrong hard drives for the rebuild. The actual drives are Samsung HD206UI which is SATA II 3.0 Gps at 5400 RPM and is an EcoGreen hard drive. I've read a few reviews of it on NewEgg and a few other vendors and some said that they thought it was fast for a 5400 RPM drive. Does the spindle speed really matter if it is a SATA II 3.0 GB interface?

[jerryj26]

Would disabling Write Cache help out at all?

[jerryj26]

OK, I've rebuilt this thing with all the lastest drivers and omitted the Hauppagge HVR-2250, my dog ate it while I had it out of the case. IT'S TRUE!!!

I tried it before the installation of any codecs and the problem persists while changing channels in live TV and playing back of recorded TV files, both WTV and DVRMS. I get an occasional click at the beginning of video file playback, but MP3s are unaffected. Playback from other computers on the network is unaffected as well, no problems.

I gotta tell ya that I feel completely betrayed by this upgrade from my old system with just replacing the system board with built-in HDMI and larger hard drives. Like others, I've put in more money than I'd care to admit and alot of time and effort to make it as useable as possible.

At this point I'm almost ready to call it quits. The only option that I have right now is to leave it the way it is and use it for a media server. I have an original XBox 360 Pro that I can put in the TV stand next to it to be used as an extender for watching live/recorded TV via Component after bringing another CAT6 drop to the living room.

Again, any or all help would be appreciated.

[newfiend]

I am assuming you are using the onboard HDMI off the Motherboard? correct? (ASUS Crossfire II motherboard with on-board NVIDIA nForce 780a VGA and HDMI)
Is the motherboard BIOS up to date?
Is the HDMI hooked directly to the TV or to an AVR then TV? If it is hooked to an AVR, if you remove that and hook directly to the TV does it still do it?
Does your TV/AVR have the ability to be updated via Ethernet? If so make sure the TV and AVR are both up to date on Firmware/Software updates.
For troubleshooting sake do you by chance have another video card with HDMI out you can borrow from another system to try? Might be worth picking up an inexpensive video card if not to try and see it it still happens.. I never had good luck with onboard HDMI outputs. My Asus board had HDMI issues. I finally opted for a EVGA GT 430 and It's been solid since.
What's strange about your situation is that it only happens on Live TV.. and not recorded files etc.. wonder if you just happen to have a bad Motherboard? since the tuners are powered by the PCi/PCIe slots and Live TV is the only thing giving you the "pop".. makes me wonder..?? I guess the only other thing I can think of is make sure the Motherboard is firmly secured to the case (well grounded).
newfiend~

[jerryj26]

Thank you for the quick relay. Here are the facts relating to your questions.

I am assuming you are using the onboard HDMI off the Motherboard? correct? Yes, that is correct

Is the motherboard BIOS up to date? Yes, via ASUS Update.

Is the HDMI hooked directly to the TV or to an AVR then TV? It is hooked up directly to the TV

Does your TV/AVR have the ability to be updated via Ethernet? No, it predates that feature set. However I might try to see if there is a firmware update for it.

For troubleshooting sake do you by chance have another video card with HDMI out you can borrow from another system to try? I tried that with my old card but it wouldn't work right. The screen image was split in half horizontally.

What's strange about your situation is that it only happens on Live TV.. and not recorded files etc.. wonder if you just happen to have a bad Motherboard? since the tuners are powered by the PCi/PCIe slots and Live TV is the only thing giving you the "pop".. makes me wonder..?? I put the tuner in another slot than it was before.

I guess the only other thing I can think of is make sure the Motherboard is firmly secured to the case (well grounded). It should be, I'm a Compaq/HP certified server tech, MCSE, NetWare MCNE and HP Master Printer Tech. Hopefully that's not the problem. If it is, I need to find anotehr line of work!!! ;>

[newfiend]

I guess If it were me.. And well this is just me.. but sometimes it just comes down to troubleshooting and or part swaping to find the culprit
1) try another Video Card with an HDMI out. like a EVGA GT430. Its a good card and handles bitstreaming the HD audio codecs on blu-rays.. If it still persists..
2) swap out the PSU .. might be a bad cap or ground inside the PSU itself..?
3) Warranty the MB.. It could be a bad component on the board causing a bad or intermitant ground problem? one that manifests itself through audio but isn't bad enough yet to cause other system errors.
Of course we could guess till the cows come home and never be totally correct..
What "other" video card did you try? Did it have an HDMI out and when you installed it did you disable the HDMI out on the MB in the Bios? strange you got a split screen.. makes me wonder if it is a bad MB....?
newfiend~

[jerryj26]

1) try another Video Card with an HDMI out. I'll see what I can do to try this.

2) swap out the PSU .. might be a bad cap or ground inside the PSU itself..? I have a spare PSU i can try.

3) Warranty the MB. Not possible as the warranty had expired way before I installed the ASUS Crosshair II Extreme.

Of course we could guess till the cows come home and never be totally correct. True.

What "other" video card did you try? MSI NX7600GT (S-Video and HDMI)

Did it have an HDMI out and when you installed it did you disable the HDMI out on the MB in the Bios? Yes I disabled the onboard HDMI.

strange you got a split screen.. makes me wonder if it is a bad MB....? Yeah, never saw that one before.

Thanks for the suggestions, will see if I can get to them this weekend.

[newfiend]

Were you able to get this sorted out?
newfiend~

[jerryj26]

I'm working on it. I just got that EVGA card from Buy.com for $54.74, no tax or shipping. But I just thought of something that might be causing it. The MB BIOS controls the amount of memory allocated to graphic memory, I'm going to try and bump it up and see what happens. If not, I'll disable the onboard HDMI and install the EVGA card. Since it also uses an NVIDIA chipset like the onboard HDMI, do I have to imnstall the drivers the card came with or just see what happens?
Also, I was having difficulty try to get a dual monitor setup going.
My plan was to have the windows desktop on the 7' monitor on the case and run WMC on the TV via HDMI. That way I could run the ZINI program to display the time, fans, temp and network data on the 7' and if I needed to do anything that required a desktop I installed that Concurrent RDP desktop fix to do that.
Somehow I wasn't doing something right to get that to work, any help appreciated.

[jerryj26]

OK, so here are the results. I never did get to install that new EVGA card after all. My father-in-law's CRT type of TV finally gave out and we got a very nice 42" LG TV from BJ's Wholesale Club. I took this as an opportunity to test my DVR in order to take my Mitsubishi WD-52525 52" DLP TV out of the loop.
And guess what? The live TV was flawless, no popping, no audio loss, perfect. The viewable area was even square with the TV screen. Similar results with the video playback and newly recorded TV.
This definitely points to my TV as the problem. The only thing that I can contribute it to is an incompatibility with the HDMI in the TV which was made in 2004, Remember, the nVidia control panel says that both card and TV are working OK with HDCP.
My question is would a firmware upgrade of the TV also update the HDMI version so that it might become more compatible to eliminate this problem? My only other solution would be to use a Xbox 360 via component right next to it as an extender and use the DVR to only play BluRay movies.
Any suggestions woud be gratefully welcome.

[adam1991]

Didn't Mitsu have some sort of program to keep its owners up to date as the whole HDTV thing transitioned in? Was that just tuner, or did that involve keeping HDMI up to date as well?

[jerryj26]

I guess I'll have to call them and find out or do a web search.

[newfiend]

OK, so here are the results. I never did get to install that new EVGA card after all. My father-in-law's CRT type of TV finally gave out and we got a very nice 42" LG TV from BJ's Wholesale Club. I took this as an opportunity to test my DVR in order to take my Mitsubishi WD-52525 52" DLP TV out of the loop.
And guess what? The live TV was flawless, no popping, no audio loss, perfect. The viewable area was even square with the TV screen. Similar results with the video playback and newly recorded TV.
This definitely points to my TV as the problem. The only thing that I can contribute it to is an incompatibility with the HDMI in the TV which was made in 2004, Remember, the nVidia control panel says that both card and TV are working OK with HDCP.
My question is would a firmware upgrade of the TV also update the HDMI version so that it might become more compatible to eliminate this problem? My only other solution would be to use a Xbox 360 via component right next to it as an extender and use the DVR to only play BluRay movies.
Any suggestions woud be gratefully welcome.

If there are firmware updates available for the TV see what they address.. There is usually a log of what issues are fixed in the firmware update on the Mfg. Site.. See if any of them sound like your issue. If they aren't then this probably won't fix it. Although you could try and update if there is one. Couldn't hurt to try at this point it's already broken IMO..so why not? (disclaimer: If this breaks your TV I take no responsability! make sure you read and follow the update instructions completely!)
I just did a manual firmware update on my Sony TV as the built in networking wasn't working correctly and I had to put the update on a flash drive and update it. Worked great. addressed a couple issues I noticed.
The firmware updates do not change the HDMI spec afaik this is more of an internal HW and Software change made by the Mfg.
Info on HDMI spec below..

What is the difference between HDMI 1.3 and HDMI 1.3a, or 1.3b?

For consumers, there is no difference between HDMI version 1.3 and 1.3a or 1.3b. These minor revisions to the specification typically relate to manufacturing or testing issues and do not impact features or functionality. In addition, HDMI Licensing, LLC is actively working with manufacturers to reduce confusion for consumers by de-emphasizing version numbers and focusing instead on product features and functionality.

What functionality was added to each version of HDMI?

The following provides an overview of major functionality added to each version of HDMI:

HDMI 1.1:
•Support for DVD Audio.

HDMI 1.2:
•Adds features and capabilities that increase HDMI's appeal for use in both the CE and PC industries. Specifically, the features and modifications for HDMI 1.2 include: Support for One Bit Audio format, such as SuperAudio CD's DSD (Direct Stream Digital), changes to offer better support for current and future PCs with HDMI outputs, including: availability of the widely-used HDMI Type A connector for PC sources and displays with full support for PC video formats, ability for PC sources to use their native RGB color space while retaining the option to support the YCbCr CE color space, requirement for HDMI 1.2 and later displays to support future low-voltage (i.e., AC-coupled) sources, such as those based on PCI Express I/O technology.

HDMI 1.2a:
•Consumer Electronic Control (CEC) features and command sets and CEC compliance tests are now fully specified.
•Creation of version 1.2a of the HDMI Compliance Test Specification (CTS), which includes a CEC Supplement. HDMI CTS 1.2a has been updated for technical consistency with HDMI Specification 1.2a as well as to the recently released HDMI Specification 1.2.
•Significantly, CTS 1.2a contains additional cable and connector testing and Authorized Testing Center (ATC) submission requirements. Specifically, under CTS 1.2a, the Adopter shall submit for testing to the ATC any new HDMI cable whose length exceeds previously tested cables.
•Additionally, HDMI Licensing, LLC will maintain a list of approved connectors. For a device to pass CTS 1.2a testing at an ATC, all connectors on such device must appear on the approved connector list. To add a connector to this list, the vendor must submit to the ATC or HDMI Licensing, LLC full and passing testing results.

HDMI 1.3:
•Higher speed: HDMI 1.3 increases its single-link bandwidth to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbps) to support the demands of future HD display devices, such as higher resolutions, Deep Color and high frame rates. In addition, built into the HDMI 1.3 specification is the technical foundation that will let future versions of HDMI reach significantly higher speeds.
•Deep Color: HDMI 1.3 supports 10-bit, 12-bit and 16-bit (RGB or YCbCr) color depths, up from the 8-bit depths in previous versions of the HDMI specification, for stunning rendering of over one billion colors in unprecedented detail.
•Broader color space: HDMI 1.3 adds support for “x.v.Color™” (which is the consumer name describing the IEC 61966-2-4 xvYCC color standard), which removes current color space limitations and enables the display of any color viewable by the human eye.
•New mini connector: With small portable devices such as HD camcorders and still cameras demanding seamless connectivity to HDTVs, HDMI 1.3 offers a new, smaller form factor connector option.
•Lip Sync: Because consumer electronics devices are using increasingly complex digital signal processing to enhance the clarity and detail of the content, synchronization of video and audio in user devices has become a greater challenge and could potentially require complex end-user adjustments. HDMI 1.3 incorporates automatic audio synching capabilities that allows devices to perform this synchronization automatically with total accuracy.
•New HD lossless audio formats: In addition to HDMI’s current ability to support high-bandwidth uncompressed digital audio and all currently-available compressed formats (such as Dolby® Digital and DTS®), HDMI 1.3 adds additional support for new lossless compressed digital audio formats Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio™.

And HDMI 1.4a
Here are the major enhancements introduced in the HDMI 1.4 specification:
•HDMI Ethernet Channel– Adds high-speed networking to an HDMI link, allowing users to take full advantage of their IP-enabled devices without a separate Ethernet cable.
•Audio Return Channel– Allows an HDMI-connected TV with a built-in tuner to send audio data "upstream" to a surround audio system, eliminating the need for a separate audio cable.
•3D– Defines input/output protocols for major 3D video formats, paving the way for true 3D gaming and 3D home theater applications.
•4K Support– Enables video resolutions far beyond 1080p, supporting next-generation displays that will rival the Digital Cinema systems used in many commercial movie theatres.
•Content Type– Real-time signaling of content types between display and source devices, enabling a TV to optimize picture settings based on content type
•Additional Color Spaces– Adds support for additional color models used in digital photography and computer graphics.
•HDMI Micro Connector– A new, smaller connector for phones and other portable devices, supporting video resolutions up to 1080p.
•Automotive Connection System– New cables and connectors for automotive video systems, designed to meet the unique demands of the motoring environment while delivering true HD quality.

It may be time for a little newer TV if the updates don't fix your problem...and who doesn't like an excuse to get a newer TV?

[richard1980]

While a lot of people (and manufacturers) refer to the HDMI version number of a product, that is not correct. Products don't have an HDMI version number. They are simply compliant with a specific version of the HDMI specification or they are not. When somebody says "this product has HDMI 1.3", what they really mean is "this product is in compliance with HDMI specification 1.3". There is no "upgrading the HDMI version number" on the device. However, upgrading features of the device may make it compliant with a newer version of the HDMI specification. For example, today a 3D TV might only be compliant with HDMI 1.3, but it doesn't meet the 3D requirement of HDMI 1.4a, which requires 3D TVs to support specific 3D formats. A simple firmware upgrade could potentially change the supported 3D formats on the TV, and thus could potentially make the TV compliant with HDMI 1.4a.

[newfiend]

While a lot of people (and manufacturers) refer to the HDMI version number of a product, that is not correct. Products don't have an HDMI version number. They are simply compliant with a specific version of the HDMI specification or they are not. When somebody says "this product has HDMI 1.3", what they really mean is "this product is in compliance with HDMI specification 1.3". There is no "upgrading the HDMI version number" on the device. However, upgrading features of the device may make it compliant with a newer version of the HDMI specification. For example, today a 3D TV might only be compliant with HDMI 1.3, but it doesn't meet the 3D requirement of HDMI 1.4a, which requires 3D TVs to support specific 3D formats. A simple firmware upgrade could potentially change the supported 3D formats on the TV, and thus could potentially make the TV compliant with HDMI 1.4a.

I love how you can say in one paragraph what it takes me 6... lol