Extender recommendations for FIOS?

[mr_imaging]

Hi, I am planning to setup a Win 7 media center with a Silicon Dust HD Homerun Prime under Verizon FIOS cable TV. I want to use extenders for live TV and TV recording only. I am not too worried about streaming support (Netflix, Pandora, etc) or local media playback in other formats. Originally I thought a Linksys DMA2100 would fit the bill and also be fairly inexpensive on the used market, but I am now reading that FIOS is starting to switch some of their channels over to MP4/H.264. Although, I believe any channel I would actually watch has not switched over yet, I worry about losing the ability to watch certain channels in the near future. So I believe the only viable choices are an Xbox 360 or a Ceton Echo, is that right (or HTPCs in every room)? Has anyone used either for watching FIOS MP4 encoded channels? I generally hear about a lot of issues with the Echo, but if it is only used for live tv and managing recordings, is it decent?

[blueiedgod]

We have FiOS and have both Linksys 2100/2200 and XBOX. I haven't come across a channel that either could not play.

My only problem with Linksys, or any of the dedicated extender is extremely long boot times. As I have mentioned in the other post, there are times where it just sits there with a blinking blue light or "please wait" message for minutes at a time. And I just end up yanking the power cord and giving it a hard reboot to make it boot.

XBOX is power hungry, but at the same time, it takes no time to boot. So, it does not need to be on all the time.

[mr_imaging]

Do you subscribe to beIN sports (598), or any of the .TV channels? There is a thread over on the SiliconDust forums talking about stuttering on beIN sports on the Xbox.

On the Linksys, isn't there a standby mode so that you don't have to reboot often? Thanks.

[blueiedgod]

Do you subscribe to beIN sports (598), or any of the .TV channels? There is a thread over on the SiliconDust forums talking about stuttering on beIN sports on the Xbox.

On the Linksys, isn't there a standby mode so that you don't have to reboot often? Thanks.

We are on the Prime HD package, so whatever comes with that package is displayed properly. We don't subsribe to any extra channels.

There is no "stand by" on the linksys. You can exit the WMC, and go into Linksys menu, but it is still full power mode. When you power down, the extender is off, and you have to boot into Linksys menu and then WMC (although you can tell extender to boot directly into WMC, it still boots into its own, and then automatically boots into WMC).

Going from "powered down" "red LED" light to full blown WMC takes just as long as going from "unplugged" to WMC. Red LED just tells you that extender is off.

[bernie_xg]

As a Fios user I use a Ceton echo and Xbox 360. (and a smart TV that looks right at the recorded tv directory)

The first Ceton echo I got was virtually bricked, the second worked flawlessly. That being said I still prefer the Echo over an Xbox360. (and not just because it is small and noiseless)

I also chose to go with a device that was still being developed and actively marketed, as opposed to only available on the used market, like other extenders.

That being said, reading what I read about the Ceton echo (bricks happen, basically was released a bit early), and my experience, I decided to purchase the extended warranty for it through newegg, which I don't do often.

[johny3]

we have fios and also use an echo and 2 xbox 360s. Most of our tv is watched using the echo. My wife gets frustrated with it for two reasons:
1. it freezes and has to reboot
2. sometimes when fastforwarding it will freeze the picture and jump forward or just suddenly jump more forward than the picture suggests and when you hit play you are farther than you wanted.

All in all I am happy with the echo, I just wish I did not have those two problems

For the 360, we have them and do not watch them a ton. They work fine. No issues here.

[glugglug]

Over the past year, FIOS has started adding h.264 channels. Mostly these are limited to Spanish channels, lesser watched sports stations, and non primary premium HD channels. I'm sure the list will grow over time. The only extenders that support this are the XBOX and maybe the Echo. Since it requires a lot more decoder power I'd really only trust it on the XBOX 360.

[phimoore]

I can tell you the Linksys DMA2x00 devices do not work with channels using h.264. I am on FIOS and they give an error on those channels (TEAMHD which is NBA League Pass... preseason)... On the 360, these channels skip but work fine on the HTPC. I order a Ceton Echo yesterday to see if that fixes the problem (there was another thread saying it does).

[barnabas1969]

I can tell you the Linksys DMA2x00 devices do not work with channels using h.264. I am on FIOS and they give an error on those channels (TEAMHD which is NBA League Pass... preseason)... On the 360, these channels skip but work fine on the HTPC. I order a Ceton Echo yesterday to see if that fixes the problem (there was another thread saying it does).

If you can upload a short clip (2-3 minutes) of an H.264 channel that is not copy-protected (upload it as a WTV file), I'd like to test it on the HP extenders. You can't upload a file that large on TGB.tv, so put it somewhere else (Google Drive, dropbox, etc).

[glugglug]

I uploaded a short clip from Pets.TV HD (It looks like all the FIOS .TV HD channels are now H.264?)

First time using dropbox, not sure if this is publicly accessible: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8jiqvg9p3xyks ... _59_48.wtv

Something about how these channels are encoded makes them much faster to tune to than the normal MPEG-2 channels - switching between them is like an old analog tuner! But as phimoore mentioned, other H.264 stations with more action like Cars.TV HD or ES.TV HD skip a lot of frames on the XBOX. This is odd because H.264 1080p blu-ray rips @10Mbps play fine on the XBOX as MKVs. The H.264 stations on FIOS are 5 to a QAM, so ~7-8Mbps each.

[phimoore]

I can tell you the Linksys DMA2x00 devices do not work with channels using h.264. I am on FIOS and they give an error on those channels (TEAMHD which is NBA League Pass... preseason)... On the 360, these channels skip but work fine on the HTPC. I order a Ceton Echo yesterday to see if that fixes the problem (there was another thread saying it does).

If you can upload a short clip (2-3 minutes) of an H.264 channel that is not copy-protected (upload it as a WTV file), I'd like to test it on the HP extenders. You can't upload a file that large on TGB.tv, so put it somewhere else (Google Drive, dropbox, etc).

I will do that but the channels I have in h.264 that I know of are NBA League Pass and there aren't any games on today. The recording I have is the whole game. Well I received the Ceton Echo and I am having problems with these h.264 channels. I recorded an NBA game a couple of days ago and it plays perfect on the HTPC. On the Echo, it stutters but not as bad as the 360 does. They are broadcasted in 1080i. Everything in MPEG2 on the Echo works fine regardless of the resolution. It's connected to a TV that has 720p output via HDMI with TOSLINK going to my AVR. Any suggestions?

[barnabas1969]

@glugglug: Thanks. I'm downloading it now.

@phimoore: Is your 360 connected via Ethernet (wired), MoCA, Powerline, or wireless?

[barnabas1969]

Amazing. The file that glugglug uploaded won't play at all on the HP extender (nor on the Linksys). It immediately gives me a message that the video format is not supported on this extender.

The weird thing is that I've converted BluRay movies to H.264 at a much higher bit rate, and they play fine on the HP extender. Here's the output from MediaInfo for glugglug's video (this doesn't work):

Code: Select all

General
Complete name                            : E:\Recorded TV\Pets TV_PETSTV_2013_10_18_20_59_48.wtv
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
File size                                : 182 MiB

Video
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 4 frames
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 29.970 fps
Standard                                 : Component
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : MBAFF

And here's the output from a video that I converted from a BluRay (this works):

Code: Select all

General
Complete name                            : E:\Videos\test.wtv
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
File size                                : 16.4 GiB

Video
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : Main@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 4 frames
Width                                    : 1 918 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Writing library                          : x264 core 120
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x1:0x111 / me=hex / subme=2 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=6 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=1 / keyint=240 / keyint_min=24 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=10 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=14.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=3 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

[barnabas1969]

glugglug, I have a question for you. What type of tuner do you use? Are you using an HD-PVR/Colossus to capture this, or a CableCARD tuner?

[barnabas1969]

So I just picked up an XBox 360 E from Amazon to test. Too bad I didn't catch it when it had the $50 giftcard deal.

EDIT: I changed my mind and cancelled the order for the "E". I want the "S" instead because it has optical audio output. I need optical audio for my bedroom.

[glugglug]

It's captured with the InfiniTV tuner. I'm kind of surprised you were able to play any H.264 WTV on the HP extender -- I thought the XBOX & the Echo were the only ones to support anything other than MPEG-2 in a WTV? When the other extenders were built, WTV didn't exist yet, and MPEG-2 is the only video codec supported by DVR-MS.

[barnabas1969]

Glugglug, your file played fine on the PC. The reason I asked if you used an HD-PVR is because the properties of the file say that the "TV network affiliation" is "Satellite".

I created that BluRay rip as a test back when I had an Echo. I tested it on the Echo, the HP, and the Linksys. It played better on the HP than it did on the Echo. The Linksys had problems playing the file. The HP played it fine, but reacted strangely when I tried to skip forward/backward. The Echo stuttered and wouldn't skip forward/back without crashing.

MediaInfo doesn't list the bit rate, but I think it was 16Mbps. That was the highest rate that the HP would play.

[phimoore]

@glugglug: Thanks. I'm downloading it now.

@phimoore: Is your 360 connected via Ethernet (wired), MoCA, Powerline, or wireless?

I have MoCA for the 360 and the HTPC and Echo are connected to the same switch via Ethernet.

[barnabas1969]

I have MoCA for the 360 and the HTPC and Echo are connected to the same switch via Ethernet.

I will have my new XBox 360 by the middle of this week. I'll test it with the file that glugglug uploaded to see if it stutters. Please upload a 3 minute recording from one of the H.264 programs that has fast motion. I'd like to test that too.

[phimoore]

I have MoCA for the 360 and the HTPC and Echo are connected to the same switch via Ethernet.

I will have my new XBox 360 by the middle of this week. I'll test it with the file that glugglug uploaded to see if it stutters. Please upload a 3 minute recording from one of the H.264 programs that has fast motion. I'd like to test that too.

Here you go... https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1siX05 ... sp=sharing