WMC Zombie - Gray Screen of Death

[LostInTheTrees]

I have been having a problem with my WMC installation lately that is close top making me go back to Tivo. I hope somebody can help with with it.

My WMC is always on. The HDMI cable goes to a V475 Yamaha AV Receiver that is fairly new. The HDMI output of the Receiver is hooked to a Samsung Flat panel TV. Using my Logitech Remote I select Watch TV and the remote turns on the Receiver and the TV. In the last week or two, most often it starts up and all I see is a gray screen. The TV is clearly on and receiving from the Receiver. Nothing I do will consistently change this except rebooting the WMC machine. Obviously that's not a good solution. It seems like occasionally (but rarely) if I select All Off on the remote, then Watch TV again, it works. Note, this only turns the Receiver and TV off and On. The only sure fix is a reboot.

The setup has bene working pretty well since contracting the WMC htpc a couple of years ago, but I changed some things recently. The AV Receiver is new, but it worked fine after I got things set up and configured with my old Logitech Harmony Remote (750, 650? something like that.) More recently I got a Harmony Smart Remote (Which I really like, BTW.) This problem started shortly after I got that, but it's not certain, that it started at exactly the same time.

Because of the change in Remotes, I thought the most obvious thing was that the TV and Receiver were being turned on with a different order or timing. I had encountered an HDMI issue like that before. However, some experimenting has shown no difference when the order is changed.

Does anyone have any idea what the problem might be? I can't tolerate this for long. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The HTPC is running Win7-64, (up to date). The CPU is a sandy Bridge quad core (i5 I think) using the HDMI built into the Intel chipset. The OS is installed on an SSD and the media is stored on a normal 2 TB HD. Other devices (Sony BD and AppleTV (1080 version) are working fine through the AV Receiver.

-Bob

[adam1991]

Play around with your setup bypassing the receiver, with HDMI plugged directly from the computer into the TV. Can you replicate the problem?

My guess is, that'll all work fine. You're being misled by the fact that the new receiver initially worked. It doesn't now, and the new receiver is very likely the cause.

Can you put your old receiver back in the loop to observe *that* behavior?

It's not the remotes.

[foxwood]

What happens if you use the Harmony 750/650 now?

[LostInTheTrees]

What happens if you use the Harmony 750/650 now?

Using the old remote does not seem to help.

-Bob

[LostInTheTrees]

Play around with your setup bypassing the receiver, with HDMI plugged directly from the computer into the TV. Can you replicate the problem?

My guess is, that'll all work fine. You're being misled by the fact that the new receiver initially worked. It doesn't now, and the new receiver is very likely the cause.

Can you put your old receiver back in the loop to observe *that* behavior?

It's not the remotes.

The old receiver was not an HDMI switcher. The WMC was linked directly to the TV with an optical cable to the Receiver. I may try hooking up the new receiver this way. It pretty much defeats the reason for getting the new receiver though.

-Bob

[barnabas1969]

This is a fairly well known issue with Yamaha (and a few other brands) of AV receivers. I have a Yamaha RX-A2010 that does the same thing.

I solved the issue by setting up an Event Ghost macro. When I turn off my TV and AVR, EG closes Media Center. Then, when I turn on the TV, EG starts media center full screen after a few seconds. This causes a new HDMI handshake to occur.

Another way to do it is to send the Windows logo (WIN) key, wait a second, and then press WIN+ALT+ENTER. This can also be automated with EventGhost, and also causes a new HDMI handshake to occur.

[LostInTheTrees]

This is a fairly well known issue with Yamaha (and a few other brands) of AV receivers. I have a Yamaha RX-A2010 that does the same thing.

I solved the issue by setting up an Event Ghost macro. When I turn off my TV and AVR, EG closes Media Center. Then, when I turn on the TV, EG starts media center full screen after a few seconds. This causes a new HDMI handshake to occur.

Another way to do it is to send the Windows logo (WIN) key, wait a second, and then press WIN+ALT+ENTER. This can also be automated with EventGhost, and also causes a new HDMI handshake to occur.

Thanks! I will test this soonest. I don't want to leave WMC off because recordings need to be happening. A sequence of Win, delay, Win+Alt+Enter appears to be preferred. I can hit this when I start up in the bad state.

If this is a well-known problem, why don't these AV manufacturers fix the problem?

-Bob

[foxwood]

I don't want to leave WMC off because recordings need to be happening.

You don't need to have WMC running in the foreground for recordings to be made - they're handled by a background service. You can even log out of Windows, and scheduled recordings will still be made.

[LostInTheTrees]

This is a fairly well known issue with Yamaha (and a few other brands) of AV receivers.

Alas, the Harmony Smart Remote does not have Win+Alt+Enter in it's command list. Are there other alternatives that do not stop MC?

-Bob

[barnabas1969]

You need to test the WIN (wait a second or two) WIN+ALT+ENTER with a keyboard. If it works, I can help you automate it in EventGhost.

Just FYI: You can even allow your computer to sleep (Standby) and it will wake up automatically to record a scheduled show.

[LostInTheTrees]

You need to test the WIN (wait a second or two) WIN+ALT+ENTER with a keyboard. If it works, I can help you automate it in EventGhost.

Just FYI: You can even allow your computer to sleep (Standby) and it will wake up automatically to record a scheduled show.

You pointed me in the right direction. It took me a while to find it, but Win+Alt+Enter is equivalent to the WMC start command. This means EventGhost is not required. (I didn't realize that was a separate add-in.)

On the Harmony Smart Remote, I programmed a color button to the sequence, "Win-", Start, "ALT+Tab" after some trial and error. This appears to work without the delay in place. The Alt+Tab was needed to switch back to full screen WMC.

I added this sequence to the end of my "Watch TV" startup. This appears to work, but I noticed one thing that might be a glitch and might require modification. One time when I started up this way, WMC was terminated and restarted. I have not tested enough to know how often this happens or if a reliable way to avoid it is available. I've done little testing so far, just enough to know it basically works. I'll try and post up a "final" solution here when I have it.

-Bob

[barnabas1969]

Basically, the WIN button (by itself) displays the Start menu. The 1-2 second pause is needed to allow the video adapter, TV, and AVR to sync. Then, the WIN+ALT+ENTER combination starts Media Center (or brings it back to full-screen, if it is already running when you press the WIN key).

The green (Media Center logo) button on a Media Center certified remote does the same thing as WIN+ALT+ENTER.

As an alternative to the WIN button (by itself), you could display the desktop, if your remote supports that feature.

When you display the desktop, a desktop application, or the start menu: you let Windows take control of the video adapter. Then, when you put Media Center back in full-screen mode, it takes control of the video card, and does a new HDMI "handshake".

If you ever get tired of pressing buttons on your remote, come back to this site and ask for help setting up an EventGhost (EG) macro to do the same thing. The EG macro can be triggered on a number of different things. For example, it can be setup to detect when you press the Power-ON button for your TV.

Let me know if you're interested.

[barnabas1969]

On the Harmony Smart Remote, I programmed a color button to the sequence, "Win-", Start, "ALT+Tab" after some trial and error. This appears to work without the delay in place. The Alt+Tab was needed to switch back to full screen WMC.

You wouldn't need the ALT+TAB if you had a pause between WIN AND "Start" (which I assume sends the same command as the green Media Center logo button on an MCE certified remote). You need to provide some time for your TV, PC, and AVR to sync after pressing the WIN key, before you send the "green button" to start Media Center (which also brings it to the foreground in full-screen).

I added this sequence to the end of my "Watch TV" startup. This appears to work, but I noticed one thing that might be a glitch and might require modification. One time when I started up this way, WMC was terminated and restarted. I have not tested enough to know how often this happens or if a reliable way to avoid it is available. I've done little testing so far, just enough to know it basically works. I'll try and post up a "final" solution here when I have it.

This is another good reason why a pause is a good idea.

[STC]

Another way to skin the rabbit would be to use HdmiYo to force a handshake without having to exit MediaCenter.
It can be controlled with a number of configurable key combos.

This link explains a fix for green screen, a similar thing to barnabas' approach, but uses HdmiYo and leaves MC running:
http://thegreenbutton.tv/forums/viewtop ... 850#p55850

[barnabas1969]

I agree with STC that HdmiYo is a worthwhile thing to try. However, it did not help with my Yamaha RX-A2010. I did not have a problem until buying the AVR.

HdmiYo didn't solve the problem for me, but it might for the OP. These days, I actually have my PC setup to close Media Center when I put the PC in standby, and it only starts Media Center if the PC was awakened due to user activity (via the keyboard, remote control, power button, or when the TV is turned on).

The reason I started closing Media Center is because if any errors are detected (weak signal, etc) while shows are being recorded (even if the TV is off when the errors occurred), then the user gets presented with a slew of error messages when they first turn on the TV. If Media Center is closed when these errors are detected, no error messages are displayed for the user when they first turn on the TV.

These days, the error messages are much less frequent than they were back in my Ceton days, but I still like the idea. For example, my cable company is currently in a pricing dispute with CBS. CBS just happens to own Showtime. I have a few recordings scheduled on Showtime. While Showtime is off-the-air for me, I get SIX errors every time a recording tries to start (because I have six CableCARD tuners). And... Showtime repeats those shows multiple times per day... so Media Center attempts to record every repeat, because it was unable to record the original airing. Imagine walking into your living room and turning on the TV... and having to answer SIX error messages for every airing that attempted to record while you were sleeping and/or away from home.

That's what I used to see. Now, because the Media Center interface is not running unless I'm actually watching TV, I only see the error messages when a show attempts to record while I'm actually watching TV.

[LostInTheTrees]

Do you mean that the recordings will still take place, even when WMC is not running?

-Bob

[adam1991]

Do you mean that the recordings will still take place, even when WMC is not running?

-Bob

Yes.

[barnabas1969]

Do you mean that the recordings will still take place, even when WMC is not running?

-Bob

Yes.

Yes, and even if the PC is in standby or hibernation. It will wake to record, and then go back to sleep if you've set the power settings to do so.

[LostInTheTrees]

OK, here is what I finally ended up with. It is fairly different that what is mentioned above. The key, of course, is to cause a new HDMI handshake. That apparently happens when the WMC UI takes over the full screen.

On shut down, I add the single command Alt+F4 to shut down the WMC UI. This does not affect recording as barnabas1969 said above.

On startup, I add 3 commands that have the effect of starting up the WMC UI. They are:
Start
DirectionDown
Select

Start opens the start panel in Win7. I found docs that said start is Win+Alt+Enter and that Win+Alt+Enter aught to start WMC, but it does not. The Start command, for me at least, just opens the Windows start panel. WMC is the first entry on my start list, so DirectionDown highlights it. Select then activates it. This is kind of slow, but works very consistently with no HDMI issue. No "delay" steps are required.

This solution is directly applicable to Win7-64 WMC, with a Harmony Smart Remote. YMMV.

I found these custom command assignments to be essential.
Rew short press - Back
Rew long press - sequence of Rewind, Rewind
FF short press - Skip
FF long press - sequence of FF, FF

I found some additional custom command assignments to be valuable. Specific colors are not important.
Blue key short press - Alt-Tab
Blue key long press - Alt-F4
Green key short press - Start
Green key long press - Alt-Space
Red key short press - TV PowerToggle
Yellow key short press - Receiver PowerToggle

-Bob

[jjhtpc]

I have another suggestion, why not dual screen the setup. You can make the main monitor the tv, and the AVR your second. Use the HDMI to the AVR for bitstreaming and use a DVI to HDMI adapter and set the DVI port as HDMI in bios. I do this and it works perfect. No more edid issues, and no more remote kludge. Your i5 should have plenty of power for that and you can use the old remote commands.