I'd recommend avoiding the ETH6

Ask fellow members about Ceton's infiniTV tuners here.
Forum rules
Ceton no longer participate in this forum. Official support may still be handled via the Ceton Ticket system.
ZPrime

Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:45 pm
Location: Mayfield Hts, OH

HTPC Specs: Show details

#21

Post by ZPrime » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:10 pm

barnabas1969 wrote:You could try that amplifier that you already have. It has a 4.5dB gain. If you do it this way, put a splitter before the TA, and don't feed the tuner off the output from the TA.

If you only have one coax running to your wiring closet, then use a 3-way splitter. Use one output to feed your cable modem, one output to feed your tuner, and one output to feed the TA.
Why feed the TA separate? I was going to hang it off the same amplifier. The Amp is bi-directional so it shouldn't affect the upstream responses from the TA. Heck, I can probably put the modem on it too if I wanted.
Just give it a try. No need to make this too complicated (yet).
Agreed. I never suspected signal was a problem because when I would check the Ceton's diag page myself, the signal was always acceptable (usually -4dbmv or so and 35-36 SNR on the tuner that I was watching). Apparently the .hta file either pulls signal levels differently, or signal is much better at night (I collected these levels during the day while at work, but I'm usually seeing problems in the evening).
As for the techs from the cableco... in my experience, the sub-contractors are about as worthless as breasts on a bull. The guys who actually work for the cableco (Mine is Brighthouse, but was formerly TWC in my area) carry better testing equipment and are trained wayyyy better.
I have never once seen an actual TWC technician. They always seem to use subs out here. If I knew the magic words to get a real TWC guy to come out, I would be much less reluctant to pay for an actual service call.

barnabas1969

Posts: 5738
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:23 pm
Location: Titusville, Florida, USA

HTPC Specs: Show details

#22

Post by barnabas1969 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:21 pm

Put the amplifier as close to where the feed comes into the house as possible (Before the first splitter). Connect the line that goes to your wiring closet to the amplifier (at the end outside the house where the feed enters your house). Put a 3-way splitter in the wiring closet. Feed the modem, tuner, and TA off of the three outputs of the splitter. Don't use the output of the TA. Just trust me. I've been down this road before.

After three visits in a single week, and still not getting ANYONE who knew ANYTHING, I called Brighthouse and literally screamed at them. They sent a team of three men. One was just a sub-contractor who they used as an attic rat. One was a Brighthouse tech who really knew his stuff. And one was a supervisor.

They replaced the tap up on the pole, replaced the feed into my house (because squirrels had chewed it), installed an 8-port unity-gain amp, ran a 2nd drop to my wiring closet (so the cable modem would be on it's own drop), and tested my house wiring to find the bad extension cable in the one bedroom. They even went down the street and did some work on the taps that are up-stream from me.

After they were done, the tech showed me a whole bunch of wave forms on his scope. I actually went to school for this type of stuff, so I understood what I was looking at. My signals are just about as perfect as they can get.

Trust me... just because your tuner says that the signal strength is within the +/- 10Db, and your SNR is high does not necessarily mean that your signals are "good".

barnabas1969

Posts: 5738
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:23 pm
Location: Titusville, Florida, USA

HTPC Specs: Show details

#23

Post by barnabas1969 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:24 pm

Oh... and make sure you use a good splitter like an Antronix or something similar. Make sure the back of the splitter is soldered all the way around... not one of those cheap RCA splitters that you can buy at Radio Shack, Home Depot or Wal-Mart. I'm not even sure I would trust the "high end" splitters they sell at Home Depot.

ZPrime

Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:45 pm
Location: Mayfield Hts, OH

HTPC Specs: Show details

#24

Post by ZPrime » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:27 pm

barnabas1969 wrote:Put the amplifier as close to where the feed comes into the house as possible (Before the first splitter). Connect the line that goes to your wiring closet to the amplifier (at the end outside the house where the feed enters your house). Put a 3-way splitter in the wiring closet. Feed the modem, tuner, and TA off of the three outputs of the splitter. Don't use the output of the TA. Just trust me. I've been down this road before.
The amp I have is an 8-port amp, and it is already in the "wiring closet." I can feed the modem/tuner/TA off of individual ports on the amp, my only concern is that it could end up overdriving the equipment.

The splitters are all either Antronix or ChannelVision, definitely full-soldered backs. I've seen crap splitters and I won't touch them with a 5 foot pole.
After three visits in a single week, and still not getting ANYONE who knew ANYTHING, I called Brighthouse and literally screamed at them. They sent a team of three men. One was just a sub-contractor who they used as an attic rat. One was a Brighthouse tech who really knew his stuff. And one was a supervisor.

They replaced the tap up on the pole, replaced the feed into my house (because squirrels had chewed it), installed an 8-port unity-gain amp, ran a 2nd drop to my wiring closet (so the cable modem would be on it's own drop), and tested my house wiring to find the bad extension cable in the one bedroom. They even went down the street and did some work on the taps that are up-stream from me.

After they were done, the tech showed me a whole bunch of wave forms on his scope. I actually went to school for this type of stuff, so I understood what I was looking at. My signals are just about as perfect as they can get.

Trust me... just because your tuner says that the signal strength is within the +/- 10Db, and your SNR is high does not necessarily mean that your signals are "good".
I've seen scope readouts once or twice but I'm not exactly sure how to interpret them. Is there a guide on the web anywhere on how they should look?

The bigger fight is going to be convincing them to come out at all when the only thing that has problems is the cablecard equipment. It took me a week of screwing around to even get them to send me a CableCard, and they then sent it without the TA, so I had to make another 3 phone calls to get someone to come bring me a TA... :x

barnabas1969

Posts: 5738
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:23 pm
Location: Titusville, Florida, USA

HTPC Specs: Show details

#25

Post by barnabas1969 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:32 pm

You really should put the amp outside, right after the grounding block.

Don't worry about over-driving stuff. You'd have to SERIOUSLY overdrive stuff to do any damage. That amp only has a 4.5dB gain. It will be OK.

ZPrime

Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:45 pm
Location: Mayfield Hts, OH

HTPC Specs: Show details

#26

Post by ZPrime » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:36 pm

barnabas1969 wrote:You really should put the amp outside, right after the grounding block.
No power out there, so not an option unless I feed back a second cable to supply power, and then each individual cable for the house would have to be on a splitter inside, or I'd have to extend them all out to that location which is an extra 40-50 feet of distance. The ground point for the house is in a strange spot - it's easy to get the run from the pole to there, but then to feed into the house it has to go around the garage and all the way up the side.
Don't worry about over-driving stuff. You'd have to SERIOUSLY overdrive stuff to do any damage. That amp only has a 4.5dB gain. It will be OK.
Unless the incoming drop is already at +5dB... add 4.5 and I'm pushing close to 10dB hot, which can be just as bad as too little signal, no?

JohnW248

Posts: 786
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:23 pm
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#27

Post by JohnW248 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:15 pm

No power out there, so not an option unless I feed back a second cable to supply power, and then each individual cable for the house would have to be on a splitter inside, or I'd have to extend them all out to that location which is an extra 40-50 feet of distance. The ground point for the house is in a strange spot - it's easy to get the run from the pole to there, but then to feed into the house it has to go around the garage and all the way up the side.
The amps that TWC uses allow you to run power on the coax back to the amp so that you don't have to have AC for a wall wart at the amp.

BTW the reason that the SD & Ceton stuff has to act the way it does is because they have to pass Cable Labs certification. However the stuff the cable companies use (NDS/Cisco SA/Moto) does not have to go through Cable Labs and as far as they are concerned its like 1950 and the telephone company. Everything we make and it all works together and you can't know what we do or why or how we do it. Consequently the STB may be more tolerant to problems than a 3rd party navigation device working with a cableCARD even though the device meet the MOCUR specifications.

We went through a major change in cableCARD rules with the FCC just a couple of years ago and several of us made comments prior to the rule making (I did and was quoted in the rulings). We got several things we were after, but other things no. We were also after handling SDV over an IP link without the necessary TA at all, but lost on that.

Here TWC doesn't charge for repair calls, they do charge for installations. I would check and see if they would charge you for repairs, in any event if its not working I would complain and demand a CREDIT for lost service and trouble and fight them on a repair call. Adding an amp to bring the signal up to a usable level isn't an installation, its a repair.

ZPrime

Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:45 pm
Location: Mayfield Hts, OH

HTPC Specs: Show details

#28

Post by ZPrime » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:54 am

Things have now been recabled.

Pole -> Side of garage -> ground block -> around back of garage and into house (60-80 feet?) -> Antronix amp
Directly connected to amp each on its own port:
Modem
Ceton Eth6
Cisco TA
cable to MoCA filter -> 2-way Channelvision split -> 2x TWC whole-home DVRs
All unused ports have a terminator on them.

Signals now look like this:
Image

Image

Image

Code: Select all

CURRENT FDC
Freq: 75.000 MHz
DAVIC: Connected
Status: Locked
Level: 5 dBmV
Seconds: 2483
Corr Bytes: 159
Uncor Blks: 473
Errs Avg/Inst: 0 / 0
Total Bytes: 438704850
S/N: 31 dB
CURRENT QAM
Freq: 603.000 MHz
Tuning Mode: QAM-256
Status: Locked
Level: 11 dBmV
S/N: 38 dB
Seconds: 2314
Corr Bytes: 0
Uncor Blks: 0
Errs Avg/Inst: 0 / 0
EQ Gain: 1.0
CURRENT RDC
Freq: 21.000 MHz
Power: 33 dBmV
Delay: 669 uSec
Retrans: 2
The two retrans presumably came when it was first booting or something? (I power cycled it after the cabling change.)

The funny part - pixelation / macroblocking continues. Single live stream active (on 1203 / TNTHD), and I've watched the picture go crazy a few times just in the 15-some minutes I've been writing this up and taking screen caps.

So yeah, I don't think it's signal. I didn't really think it was earlier either, but I figured I'd give it a try before writing it off.

Probably will give the HDHR Prime a chance over the weekend.

shortcut3d

Posts: 317
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:33 pm
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#29

Post by shortcut3d » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:03 am

Uninstall the Ceton tuners using the diagnostic first, then uninstall the software before installing SD Prime software. I'd be interested in your experience regarding the drivers and wait cursor in WMC comparing Ceton and SD.

ZPrime

Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:45 pm
Location: Mayfield Hts, OH

HTPC Specs: Show details

#30

Post by ZPrime » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:06 am

shortcut3d wrote:Uninstall the Ceton tuners using the diagnostic first, then uninstall the software before installing SD Prime software. I'd be interested in your experience regarding the drivers and wait cursor in WMC comparing Ceton and SD.
Sure, I'll report back here with results. I already deboxed the SD and updated the firmware, and spent like two hours in their IRC channel just shooting the breeze... :P

Not looking forward to trying to find a spot to put two SDs and two TAs in my little network/wiring area though. I have the current TA sitting on top of the patch panel but not sure where to put another one should I end up going all-SD...

RyC

Posts: 724
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:21 pm
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#31

Post by RyC » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:15 pm

I just got the Prime to try it out and see if it would fix some severe stuttering and macroblocking issues with the ETH 6 and new computer. Unfortunately it doesn't, so I think something is up with my computer. Since I can record the same show on my new computer and my old computer at the same time, I saw that my old computer didn't have any macroblocking or stuttering. I forgot to do that with the ETH 6 but I still have it and will try it tonight. Anyway, I did not uninstall the Ceton drivers before installing the SD drivers. The "wait" cursor on startup is gone, but I didn't mind that anyway. Channel changing speed subjectively is the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

blueiedgod

Posts: 726
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:02 pm
Location: Amherst, NY

HTPC Specs: Show details

#32

Post by blueiedgod » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:49 pm

RyC wrote:I just got the Prime to try it out and see if it would fix some severe stuttering and macroblocking issues with the ETH 6 and new computer. Unfortunately it doesn't, so I think something is up with my computer. Since I can record the same show on my new computer and my old computer at the same time, I saw that my old computer didn't have any macroblocking or stuttering. I forgot to do that with the ETH 6 but I still have it and will try it tonight. Anyway, I did not uninstall the Ceton drivers before installing the SD drivers. The "wait" cursor on startup is gone, but I didn't mind that anyway. Channel changing speed subjectively is the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

It could be as simple as bad NIC, or wire...

MC7forum

Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:57 pm
Location: USA

HTPC Specs: Show details

#33

Post by MC7forum » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:54 pm

ZPrime wrote:
barnabas1969 wrote:You really should put the amp outside, right after the grounding block.
No power out there, so not an option unless I feed back a second cable to supply power, and then each individual cable for the house would have to be on a splitter inside, or I'd have to extend them all out to that location which is an extra 40-50 feet of distance. The ground point for the house is in a strange spot - it's easy to get the run from the pole to there, but then to feed into the house it has to go around the garage and all the way up the side.
Port 1 on your amp allows you to feed power into it, and get signal out of it. All you need is the power inserter that is often included with the amp when you buy it. If you don't have the power inserter, go to the following link:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sonora-Power-In ... 41739d2743

The amplifier needs to be as close to the point where the signal enters your house because that's where the signal is the cleanest. If you put it downstream, you will be amplifying any noise that has been picked up along the way. Please... just try what I suggested!
ZPrime wrote:
barnabas1969 wrote:Don't worry about over-driving stuff. You'd have to SERIOUSLY overdrive stuff to do any damage. That amp only has a 4.5dB gain. It will be OK.
Unless the incoming drop is already at +5dB... add 4.5 and I'm pushing close to 10dB hot, which can be just as bad as too little signal, no?
Like I said, you'd have to overdrive the equipment a LOT in order to damage it. Yes, if the signal level is too high, it can cause clipping, which will give you problems too.

RyC

Posts: 724
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:21 pm
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#34

Post by RyC » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:55 pm

blueiedgod wrote: ...
It could be as simple as bad NIC, or wire...
Yeah I've tried different NIC/wires/switches/hooking it up directly but nothing has fixed it yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

MC7forum

Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:57 pm
Location: USA

HTPC Specs: Show details

#35

Post by MC7forum » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:57 pm

ZPrime wrote:Things have now been recabled.

Pole -> Side of garage -> ground block -> around back of garage and into house (60-80 feet?) -> Antronix amp
Directly connected to amp each on its own port:
Modem
Ceton Eth6
Cisco TA
cable to MoCA filter -> 2-way Channelvision split -> 2x TWC whole-home DVRs
All unused ports have a terminator on them.
You're not listening to me. Your signal levels are a little too high now. That's why I recommended using a 3-way splitter to split the signal from ONE port of the amplifier. The 3-way splitter should attenuate the signal by about 5dB... which should get you pretty close to 0.

You seem to keep going out of your way to ignore my advice. Please try what I've suggested.

shortcut3d

Posts: 317
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:33 pm
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#36

Post by shortcut3d » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:49 pm

RyC wrote:
blueiedgod wrote: ...
It could be as simple as bad NIC, or wire...
Yeah I've tried different NIC/wires/switches/hooking it up directly but nothing has fixed it yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
Make sure you aren't using third party Firewall and/or Virus protection on the new PC. Instead use MSE.

Also, try changing the recording drive.

Lastly, Playready can cause playback issues, so you can uninstall and reinstall. Caution: you will lose your protected recording.

RyC

Posts: 724
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:21 pm
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#37

Post by RyC » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:52 pm

Thanks. I'm using MSE. When I playback the WTV files on other computers, the macroblocking and stuttering is still there so I don't think it's a playready issue. I'm changing the recording drive today, I really hope that fixes it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

JohnW248

Posts: 786
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:23 pm
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#38

Post by JohnW248 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:18 am

Try copying a copy freely show from the bad machine to a working machine (so it's on a local drive) and see if that play ok, if not it was recorded that way. Then take a show from the working machine and copy it to the bad machine. If it has trouble playing a good recording then the drive is something to look at. I find best results with a separate recording drive not the OS drive. Also I've had good luck with San Digital towers set up as JBOD but bad luck setting them up as Raid 5. Too many read/write operations with live tv and multiple tuners. I have run up to 8 recordings/live tv on the Sans Digital towers with a highpoint rocketraid card.

The problems I saw were stalls not macroblocking or picture drop outs.

RyC

Posts: 724
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:21 pm
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#39

Post by RyC » Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:31 pm

Thanks for the help. Bad recordings do play on my old working computer still with macroblocking and stuttering. Known good recordings play fine on the new computer. I switched out the recording hard drive with a new one and it stutters less frequently, but it still happens maybe once or twice in a 30 minute show. I can try the HD Homerun Prime again but I don't know how or if that would help over the ETH 6.

ZPrime

Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:45 pm
Location: Mayfield Hts, OH

HTPC Specs: Show details

#40

Post by ZPrime » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:12 pm

MC7forum wrote:
ZPrime wrote:
barnabas1969 wrote:You really should put the amp outside, right after the grounding block.
No power out there, so not an option unless I feed back a second cable to supply power, and then each individual cable for the house would have to be on a splitter inside, or I'd have to extend them all out to that location which is an extra 40-50 feet of distance. The ground point for the house is in a strange spot - it's easy to get the run from the pole to there, but then to feed into the house it has to go around the garage and all the way up the side.
Port 1 on your amp allows you to feed power into it, and get signal out of it. All you need is the power inserter that is often included with the amp when you buy it. If you don't have the power inserter, go to the following link:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sonora-Power-In ... 41739d2743

The amplifier needs to be as close to the point where the signal enters your house because that's where the signal is the cleanest. If you put it downstream, you will be amplifying any noise that has been picked up along the way. Please... just try what I suggested!
Please note that the latest set of levels were taken in the evening after the cable has cooled down so they read higher than they would during the day (which is when my original, somewhat marginal levels were taken).

The amp didn't come with a power inserter since it has a dedicated port for power as well. It came with a wall wart and that was it. I do see after looking at the label that port 1 can also accept power... but please continue reading.

I don't want to put the 8-way amp out into "weather" which is what happens if I mount it outside. I'd have 7 ports that I have to cap off if I do that. I'm looking at picking up a single port adjustable-gain PCT amp from Amazon ($22) and giving that a shot though, to help boost the signal at my wiring area.

There's also the issue of our dog, who could at any time decide to chew the coax. It is currently fine, as I've inspected it, but I don't like the idea of having additional voltage on it that could hurt her. She has already chewed the A/C control wire once when she was frustrated at being unable to reach a chipmunk that hid under the A/C condenser fan... :lol:

Signal seems to be irrelevant anyway, because the HDHR Prime works fine (even with the current overdriven state). I put in the Prime over the weekend and while I did see one or two small instances of macroblocking, they were about as frequent as what I get from the normal TWC boxes and are tolerable - sound didn't drop out at all which is the big annoyance with the infiniTV. At least one of them was "in the stream" (i.e. I could rewind live TV and replay it), so it may not have even been the tuner's fault. The TA is showing 5 retrans now though, so I'm still going to keep messing with cabling / signal. Possibly the retrans are from the signal being too hot at this point... It's also worth noting that the TWC boxes occasionally have SDV problems - I'll sometimes have to hit "retry" a couple times before they will pick up an SDV channel - this might happen once every few weeks and it seems to happen "For a while" on multiple channels and then go away. I've always written it off to their equipment.

Tuning definitely seems quicker as well. I don't sleep the WMC system, but with the Eth6 every time I'd fire up an extender to watch TV I would get the blue circle for 10-20 seconds or so and it would deadlock the UI. Not seeing that now with the Prime (or maybe it's 1-2 seconds, not enough to be that annoying). I almost never watch from the WMC system itself; it's connected to a TV, but the vast majority of TV viewing happens in a different room so most of my experience is via 360 Extender.

Please note: while my handle is "ZPrime" I definitely have no affiliation with SiliconDust. :) Again, I would still prefer to be using the Ceton product because it means I pay TWC $2.50 for a single CC instead of needing to pay for two of them at $5... but the Eth6 just doesn't work as it should. :cry:

Post Reply