How to Change WTV mpeg2 Decoder WMC7

[tzr916]

I am not happy with the picture quality of WTV recorded Tv. I am comparing it to WTV playback using ZoomPlayer 8 with LAV Filter. When using WMC I am seeing jaggies in horizontal edges, I am seeing moving edges on channel logos, I am seeing pulsing and shimmering and moire patterns in fine details like small text/pinstripe suits or fabric/brick walls/asphalt/tree leaves/grass/etc. When I use ZoomPlayer with LAV to play the SAME WTV file and examine the same clips, I do NOT see these problems.

How do I force WMC7 on my HTPC to use LAV Filters for WTV?

I have already tried- http://www.codecguide.com/windows7_pref ... weaker.htm It doesn't work. I can tell that WMC is still using the default decoder. I still see the defects even after changing mpeg2 to LAV in Win7DSFilterTweaker.

I DO NOT want to download and install a bunch of codec packs. I already have LAV with ZoomPlayer working. Sorry, I am not a fan of codec packs.

I have Win7 pro 64bit.
Thanks

[barnabas1969]

I doubt that's what you really want to do.

It's possible that you haven't setup Media Center for 1:1 pixel mapping.

Go through the "setup your display" thing in Media Center settings. Choose "TV" (NOT flat panel). Make sure to set your TV for 1:1 pixel mapping, without any overscan. Not all TV's can do this, and it's called something different on every brand of TV. On Samsung, it's called "screen fit".

Also, make sure to turn off zoom in Media Center (press Info while watching something, then scroll right until you see the zoom settings).

And finally, make sure you don't do any kind of stretching or zooming in your display adapter's settings.

[tzr916]

Thanks but I've done all that (first time I ran wmc)-
Set wmc display type to "Tv", finished display setup wizard.
Not doing any Zoom in wmc.

Any settings in my Tv or the nvidia driver would affect Zoom Player WTV playback also, but those have been set to 1:1 pixel / no zoom / no stretch / no scaling... long ago.

[barnabas1969]

I don't have any problems, and I don't use any kind of filters or non-standard codecs for playing WTV files. My PC is connected to a 64" high end plasma TV with all post-processing disabled, so I think I would see problems if they existed. If you have everything setup for 1:1 pixel mapping, then you should be seeing exactly what was in the WTV file.

What kind of video adapter are you using?

In what channels/shows are you seeing the problem?

[tzr916]

No disrespect and I appreciate your time but the video card, Tv, settings, connections, etc are irrelevant because playback in Zoom Player w/LAV is NOT showing the problem when I play back the exact same file... Please understand that I connected my first HTPC to an HDTV in 1999 playing with dvds/ffdshow, then updated for bluray, then got an OTA HDTV tuner, now trying this WMC CableCard thing, so I know what I am doing... Everyone knows that one decoder/renderer handles video playback different from another. Everyone knows that third party decoders have ALWAYS been better than MS decoders. So when you say "you should be seeing exactly what was in the WTV file", it is just not true at all.

I do admit that I am a newbie here and a newbie at WMC, so I am hoping someone can tell me how to change the decoder that wmc uses for wtv playback?

[barnabas1969]

OK, so explain why I don't see what you're seeing. I don't have Media Center setup to use anything special when watching a WTV in Media Center.

[tzr916]

You are not grasping why someone can see a difference between WMC & ZoomPlayer playing the same file on the same system? You don't agree that MS decoders suck compared to third party?

There are so many possible reasons why you aren't seeing what I am seeing-
eyesight acuity
distance from display
type of display technology
size of display
quality of display panel
tuner model
tv provider
channel
program on a channel at a given time
channel bitrate/bandwidth
program bitrate
channel resolution/downrezzing
.
.
.
etc


If changing the wmc decoder is not possible then tell me, otherwise move on please.

[holidayboy]

Hi, you can use MCDU to change the video and audio codecs that are used for TV (and DVD) playback in Media Center:

http://www.hack7mc.com/2009/04/media-ce ... ows-7.html

[richard1980]

OK, so explain why I don't see what you're seeing.

You're joking, right? First and foremost, you aren't viewing the same WTV file the OP is viewing. Even if you were, you aren't using the same GPU as the OP (as I'm sure you are aware, Microsoft's DTV decoder takes advantage of DXVA). And of course, there's everything that the OP mentioned.

[barnabas1969]

OK, so explain why I don't see what you're seeing.

You're joking, right? First and foremost, you aren't viewing the same WTV file the OP is viewing. Even if you were, you aren't using the same GPU as the OP (as I'm sure you are aware, Microsoft's DTV decoder takes advantage of DXVA). And of course, there's everything that the OP mentioned.

Oh, but the OP is convinced that it has nothing to do with his GPU, display, or anything else. It's all Microsoft's fault. My point was that I'm using the Microsoft decoders and it works fine. I don't think the decoders are the problem, but the OP is he11 bent on replacing the decoder. Let him. I'm sure it will be no problem whatsoever.

[tzr916]

Win7DSFilterTweaker and MCDU did not work.

I was in fact able to change the WMC decoder by using Shark007 64bit utility. And the results were instant. Using LAV completely resolved my original issue of seeing jaggies in horizontal edges, seeing moving edges on channel logos, seeing pulsing and shimmering and moire patterns in fine details like small text/pinstripe suits or fabric/brick walls/asphalt/tree leaves/grass/etc. when using WMC. But there is one big side effect that I'm not sure I can live with- channels like HBO don't work. Theoretically I could use the Shark007 Utility to switch back and forth when HBO is needed but in the real world, if it's not automatic/transparent to the wife, it's not a valid solution. If I'm in the room controlling things, maybe...

If you want to read more-
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1466932/messi ... -maddening

[barnabas1969]

Like I said (sarcastically): I'm sure you'll have no problems if you change decoders.

[barnabas1969]

Oh... oh... oh... I know.... what video card are you using? How about we start with all the stuff in the video path, including drivers, and the TV?

[barnabas1969]

Just in case you don't understand... Media Center does not display video in the same manner as those other programs you mentioned. So comparing program X to Media Center has no bearing whatsoever. But... I'm stupid, so what do I know?

[richard1980]

Oh, but the OP is convinced that it has nothing to do with his GPU, display, or anything else. It's all Microsoft's fault. My point was that I'm using the Microsoft decoders and it works fine. I don't think the decoders are the problem, but the OP is he11 bent on replacing the decoder. Let him. I'm sure it will be no problem whatsoever.

My point in my previous post was that "I don't see what you see" is the worst possible way to defend your position. You don't see what the OP sees because you aren't looking at the same thing as the OP. Even if you were looking at the same thing, you may still never notice certain things that the OP notices, but that certainly doesn't mean they don't exist.

The OP is mostly correct. His only mistake is assuming that the GPU is irrelevant. Microsoft's DTV decoder offloads much of the decoding process to the GPU, which makes the GPU very relevant when comparing picture quality between the Microsoft DTV decoder and any other decoder that does not offload those same processes to the GPU. So while you are correct that Microsoft's decoder isn't necessarily the core problem (the core problem is the GPU), you are incorrect in assuming that changing the decoder will not result in better picture quality. Changing the decoder is one of the four possible solutions (the other solutions are to change the GPU, change the GPU driver, or adjust the GPU video settings).

[barnabas1969]

Yes Richard, I agree with you 100%. I never said that different decoders wouldn't make a difference. I understand that different decoders will use the CPU instead of the GPU (breaking the protected video path, which results in no HBO for the OP), and that they may improve things.

But the OP immediately assumed that I'm an idiot, and refused to answer my most basic question regarding his GPU.

Like I said... I'm an idiot, so what do I know?

[barnabas1969]

I don't have any problems, and I don't use any kind of filters or non-standard codecs for playing WTV files. My PC is connected to a 64" high end plasma TV with all post-processing disabled, so I think I would see problems if they existed. If you have everything setup for 1:1 pixel mapping, then you should be seeing exactly what was in the WTV file.

What kind of video adapter are you using?

In what channels/shows are you seeing the problem?

Now that I re-read my post above, I see that my first paragraph wasn't very clear in making my point. My point was that even with my equipment, I don't see the problem the OP is seeing. I have good eyesight. I'm using a large, high-end TV, and I only sit 12 feet from it. Since I'm using the Microsoft decoders, and I'm using a CableCARD tuner, and I don't see the problem the OP is seeing, then the problem is probably not due to the Microsoft decoders.

I'm not as good as Richard at stating my case, but my questions are still valid.

So... I'll repeat my questions:

What kind of video adapter are you using?

In what channels/shows are you seeing the problem?

Now, I'll go even further. I was holding on to the next questions until the OP answered my first questions. But here they are:

What graphics driver version?

Any non-default graphics settings?

What kind of display (reason I ask is that certain displays, namely DLP, can exhibit artifacts that others don't)?

I could go on... but that would complicate the thread. Oh, wait...

[tzr916]

Anyone can see my system specs by clicking the button next to my username. I use the latest whql official drivers and tried tweaking every driver setting, no change. The assertion that the GPU hardware is the problem is weak because I have enabled CUVID DxVa/GPU Deinterlacing in LAV, so the GPU is doing the work just like when wmc uses the MS decoder. At this point, I don't understand how it's not obvious that this is 100% a decoder+renderer problem. I did not make any changes to the GPU, Tv, drivers, etc and yet the instant that I changed the decoder my original problem magically went away.

[foxwood]

At this point, I don't understand how it's not obvious that this is 100% a decoder+renderer problem.

It's 100% obvious that with thousands of people using the MS decoders, and not encountering the problems that you're seeing, that the MS decoders are perfectly capable of handling the content properly, without the problems that you encountered.

If you want to watch HBO or other protected content, or use skip forward/skip back in WMC, you're going to have to use the MS decoders. Which means you're going to have to figure out what is causing the jaggies and moire patterns that youre seeing, because it's not the WTV Mpeg2 decoder, or we'd all be seeing the same problems.

[staknhalo]

I don't know what all you guys are arguing about - different decoders render the image differently - that's what they do. The OP is saying he prefers the way LAV decoders decode/the resulting image they display compared to the default MS decoders. If you haven't seen a WTV file decoded with LAV decoders - then you can't say "I don't see the issue" because you have no idea what the image looks like decoded with LAV compared to MS decoders in the first place. You only know what the MS decoded image looks like. The OP is saying that he is seeing more apparent jaggies/artifacts in the MS decoders after seeing what they look like decoded with LAV - not that the MS decoded images are completely jaggy - just that there's a bit and that it is more apparent after viewing the image decoded with LAV and then going back to the MS decoders.

OP - yeah you're f*cked if you wanna use LAV and have copy-flagged content. You're either gonna have to accept/get used to switching back and forth between decoders, or stick with the MS decoders (or give up the flagged content - but I don't think we consider that an option).