Subscription Required when changing channels

[JackatForum]

On 2nd Infinitv 4, 3rd CableCard, 3rd Tuning Adapter and still getting Subscription Required message from Brighthouse on some channels.

It seems that if we change from 1 'switched' channel to another we keep getting Subscription Required.

If we change from a 'non switched' channel to a 'switched' channel the same channels work fine.

This was witnessed by the Brighthouse Lead Tech. here today.

Any ideas????

[barnabas1969]

You need to check the signal strength and SNR of the tuning adapter. The FDC (Forward Data Channel) signal strength should be between -10 to +10dB, and the SNR should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 35dB (higher is better with SNR). Then, the RDC (Return Data Channel) signal strength should be between 25dB and 50dB.

There are web pages inside the InfiniTV that allow you to see the signal information for the tuning adapter, but I don't know exactly where to look, because I no longer have an InfiniTV. I'm sure someone here will point you to the correct web page.

You'll also want to tune one of the problem channels, and verify that the signal strength and SNR are also good (in addition to the tuning adapter's signals). They should be in the same ranges as the FDC values I listed above.

[barnabas1969]

For info about which pages inside the InfiniTV will show you the information on the tuning adapter, go see this thread:
http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 241#p49241

Take a look at post #'s 4-15.

[JackatForum]

Brighthouse says the signal levels are all within the stated levels.

I found some in the WMC screens under Settings, TV , Signal and some in the ceton diagnostic files.

But the intermittant Subscription required remains when changing to a switched channel. When trying to schedule a recording to a switched channel it failed with 'no channel'.

[JohnW248]

Brighthouse says the signal levels are all within the stated levels.

That really doesn't say much.

A few points
1. What type of headend are you on? Cisco or Moto
2. Type of TA and FW level on it as well as cableCARD

I'm on Cisco with a 1520 and can go through those diagnostics if that's what you have. Others are on Moto and probably can do the same.

If you're on Cisco start by opening the web gui for the Ceton device, click on the TA and right click on Diagnostic Map
When there click on RF Statics You'll see the following:

CURRENT FDC
Freq: 74.500 MHz
DAVIC: Connected Must say connected
Status: Locked Must be Locked
Level: 3 dBmV Acceptable is +/- 7 dBmV
Seconds: 787740
Corr Bytes: 74630
Uncor Blks: 20819
Errs Avg/Inst: 0 / 0
Total Bytes: 1730315838
S/N: 32 dB Should be 30 dB or better (higher better)
CURRENT QAM
Freq: 795.000 MHz This is the channel that is giving the necessary SDV information it will vary
Tuning Mode: QAM-256
Status: Locked
Level: 10 dBmV Same here on signal level
(page 2)
S/N: 39 dB Same here on S/N figure
Seconds: 35342
Corr Bytes: 0
Uncor Blks: 0
Errs Avg/Inst: 0 / 0
EQ Gain: 1.0
CURRENT RDC
Freq: 15.000 MHz This is your upstream connection frequency that the TA uses to ask for signals
Power: 33 dBmV
Delay: 638 uSec This is a delay so your signals don't collide with other TAs on your node
Retrans: 0 If you see numbers here it shows a failure to get answers form your node

[JackatForum]

Sorry that I do not understand your terminology.

What is a HeadEnd? CableCard is Cisco (Scientific-Atlantic). Hardware ver 6212, firmware 1.2.2.6

TA is Cisco STA1520

I assume Web Gui is 192.168.200.1, correct?
On the Tuning Adapter screen there is no Diagnostic Map but when I click on diagnostic Menu I get 'Request timed out, try again later'. Tried multiple times.

[MeInDallas]

Open the Ceton Diagnostic Tool. Click on the Devices tab, 2nd from left. You will see a button there that says "Go to InfiniTV Device Webpage" and click that. It will open a browser. You will see One Two Three Four listed across the top. You can click on each tuner and see what the signal level is there.

[MeInDallas]

Oh and just to say, my signal is good too from Time Warner on other devices, but on the Ceton card it needed an extra boost to get it to the signal level in range of the system requirements. I got a signal booster from Electroline the EDA 2100 and put it on the coax and it boosted the signal level up in range. Works great.

Check your signal levels and let us know where they are at. Let us know so we can help you

[barnabas1969]

Dallas, you are directing him to look at the tuner signal levels. We are directing him to look at the Tuning Adapter signal levels.

JohnW248 already gave the instructions for how to get to the Tuning Adapter's signal info (referred to below as "TA"). Follow John's advice below, and pay attention to the information that I highlighted in red text. The RDC power should be between 25-50. If it is outside that range, this would explain the problems you are experiencing.

If you're on Cisco start by opening the web gui for the Ceton device, click on the TA and right click on Diagnostic Map
When there click on RF Statics You'll see the following:

CURRENT FDC
Freq: 74.500 MHz
DAVIC: Connected Must say connected
Status: Locked Must be Locked
Level: 3 dBmV Acceptable is +/- 7 dBmV
Seconds: 787740
Corr Bytes: 74630
Uncor Blks: 20819
Errs Avg/Inst: 0 / 0
Total Bytes: 1730315838
S/N: 32 dB Should be 30 dB or better (higher better)
CURRENT QAM
Freq: 795.000 MHz This is the channel that is giving the necessary SDV information it will vary
Tuning Mode: QAM-256
Status: Locked
Level: 10 dBmV Same here on signal level
(page 2)
S/N: 39 dB Same here on S/N figure
Seconds: 35342
Corr Bytes: 0
Uncor Blks: 0
Errs Avg/Inst: 0 / 0
EQ Gain: 1.0
CURRENT RDC
Freq: 15.000 MHz This is your upstream connection frequency that the TA uses to ask for signals
Power: 33 dBmV
Delay: 638 uSec This is a delay so your signals don't collide with other TAs on your node
Retrans: 0 If you see numbers here it shows a failure to get answers form your node

[JohnW248]

Oh and just to say, my signal is good too from Time Warner on other devices, but on the Ceton card it needed an extra boost to get it to the signal level in range of the system requirements. I got a signal booster from Electroline the EDA 2100 and put it on the coax and it boosted the signal level up in range. Works great.

Check your signal levels and let us know where they are at. Let us know so we can help you :thumbup:

It looks like your TA is having trouble from your description. If the Diagnostic Map doesn't open with a right click and give you a list of titles then the Ceton isn't able to communicate with the TA. There can be a number of problems here. An amp has to provide two way access since the TA has to "talk" to the headend and well as get the signal from the headend. The headend is the part of the cable company that sends you the pictures on the coax. This is your local office and not the national help numbers, etc.

If you put the amp in yourself, you might have either purchased a one way amp or installed it incorrectly. For testing purposes get a piece of coax and a two way splitter. Go to the main drop (entrance to your home and connect the coax there and then from the two way splitter connect one lead to the Ceton and one to the TA. Connect the USB of the TA directly to the computer and not with a hub. Make sure there is a steady green led on the TA when your done and then open the Ceton diagnostic utility and check that it shows the TA installed. Then open the web page (default 192.168.200.1) and click on the TA tab and from the page click on the diagnostic map. If it fails to open you have a problem that will take a truck roll to investiage for signal or equipment failure.

[MeInDallas]

OK I'm going to back out of this discussion. I'm not having any problems, mine is working fine. I was just having issues with my signal level when I first got my Ceton, but its been fine since I got the amp. It is a 2way amp by the way. JackatForum is the one having issues.

[JohnW248]

OK I'm going to back out of this discussion. I'm not having any problems, mine is working fine. I was just having issues with my signal level when I first got my Ceton, but its been fine since I got the amp. It is a 2way amp by the way. JackatForum is the one having issues.

Sorry I just pulled the wrong post when I did my reply. JackatForum should read that answer and respond.

[JackatForum]

Ok, Tuner 1 set to channnel 1149
Signal elve 14.1
Signal to Noise 37.3

There is still no Diagnostic Map but there is a Diagnostic Menu.

FDC 4
RDc 28

So these are in the 'guidelines' that barnabas1969 mentions as I thought.

So now what???

[barnabas1969]

A signal level of 14.1 is too high. It should be as close to zero as possible, and within +/- 10.

How about the FDC S/N?

[JackatForum]

Currend FDC S/N 31

There is an amp to the cableCard an TA.

[barnabas1969]

In order to get an idea of your signal levels across a range of frequencies, I'd like you to go to the following post, and follow the instructions. The tool that you will download and execute will give you some information on channels in the low, mid, and high frequency ranges. Please post that information here.

Your signal strength for channel 1149 is too high, but we need to see more info before jumping to any conclusions.

So, here's the link:
http://experts.windows.com/frms/windows ... 03442.aspx

Read it, download the attachment, and run it. Post the results here.

EDIT: Please note that the newest version of the script is here:
http://experts.windows.com/frms/windows ... spx#555792

[JackatForum]

Information From Ceton Card at: http://192.168.200.1 , Tuner Instance Used for measurement:0


Smallest Frequency Table


Signal

SNR

Frequency

channel#,channel#,...

10.6 dBmV 16.3 dB 93000 720,721
10.6 dBmV 18.3 dB 99000 724,725
10.0 dBmV 14.0 dB 105000 728,729
-9.8 dBmV 19.6 dB 111000 732,733
12.4 dBmV 35.4 dB 129000 15
12.8 dBmV 35.8 dB 165000 7,244,248,249,260,470,895
14.1 dBmV 35.6 dB 279000 1127,1237
15.8 dBmV 36.4 dB 363000 56,145,159,1122,1215
14.4 dBmV 35.8 dB 375000 142,143,1295,1359
15.4 dBmV 36.0 dB 381000 409,410,415,418,423,434,436,437,440,441,1214,1283

Center Frequency Table


Signal

SNR

Frequency

Code: Select all

channel#,channel#,...

14.8 dBmV 36.2 dB 363000 56,145,159,1122,1215
14.2 dBmV 36.0 dB 375000 142,143,1295,1359
14.1 dBmV 36.0 dB 381000 409,410,415,418,423,434,436,437,440,441,1214,1283
14.1 dBmV 35.6 dB 387000 137,1128,1239
14.9 dBmV 35.8 dB 393000 1236,1242,1645
15.6 dBmV 35.4 dB 399000 158,1238,1286
14.2 dBmV 35.8 dB 429000 51,53,58
15.6 dBmV 36.0 dB 453000 52,402,403,412,413,414,416,419,420,421,426,427,428,435,1259,1267
15.4 dBmV 36.2 dB 459000 50,1255,1256
15.9 dBmV 35.6 dB 525000 1121,1260
Largest Frequency Table

Signal

SNR

Frequency

channel#,channel#,...

15.2 dBmV 35.4 dB 549000 198,199,459,460,1050
16.2 dBmV 35.8 dB 555000 196,463,471,472,473,908,1024,1060
15.1 dBmV 35.6 dB 561000 466,469,1080,1090
14.8 dBmV 35.4 dB 567000 47,113,468,1013,1020,1213
15.4 dBmV 36.0 dB 573000 134
15.0 dBmV 36.2 dB 579000 1018,1065,1901
13.3 dBmV 35.6 dB 597000 62,338,465,765,902,1027,1035
12.9 dBmV 35.8 dB 603000 1016,1903
13.5 dBmV 34.9 dB 633000 63,135,917,918,923
12.6 dBmV 33.8 dB 777000 455,456,457,458

Channel List count: 219

[barnabas1969]

Most of your channels have signal levels that are WAY TOO HIGH. Your SNR looks really good, but the signal strength is so high that you are probably over-driving the tuner.

The only channels that deviate from this are listed below. The signal level for them is fine, but the SNR is way too low. I'm guessing that you don't actually subscribe to anything on channels 720,721,724,725,728,729,732, and 733. Is that correct?

10.6 dBmV 16.3 dB 93000 720,721
10.6 dBmV 18.3 dB 99000 724,725
10.0 dBmV 14.0 dB 105000 728,729
-9.8 dBmV 19.6 dB 111000 732,733

My advice is to remove the amplifier. You need to do something to reduce the signal strength on your channels by approximately 12-15dB. How much does your amp amplify the signal?

[JackatForum]

There is nothing on those channels.

I do not know how much the amp boost the signal. Brighthouse put it in.

[barnabas1969]

There is nothing on those channels.

I do not know how much the amp boost the signal. Brighthouse put it in.

Take it out.