NBC blocks recordings again

[foxwood]

Ok after thinking about some previous posts where someone says their TWC DVR works but MCE doesn't I have some questions...
The TWC DVR's are Cisco and guess what? They have an "M" card inside them. If this problem is specific to CableCARDS, how is it possible the TWC DVR's work but MCE doesnt? So here are the facts...

Blah, blah, blah.

The FACTS are:

1) this is a CGMS-A flag. That A stands for Analog, and it's not a CCI flag, so it's got nothing to do with the Cable Card being used. It's Media Center that's blocking the copy, not the cable card.

2) the CableCos own boxes are not REQUIRED to observe the copy restrictions in these flags, so they don't.

3) the problem is restricted to a single channel on a single CableCo in a single market. It's a local screwup. The only problem is getting someone at that CableCo to admit that there's a problem, and then getting them to fix it.

[dudesky71]

I agree 100% but just because MCE complies with CGMS-A doesn't mean that when I'm tuning a digital channel on a digital tuner and watching digital content over HDMI with HDCP that I should be smacked down for an "Analog" flag. The system should be smart enough to know this. This is STUPID!!!This is why MCE has failed in the industry because ALL the bases are not covered and there are still holes that need plugged. It's probably a simple honest mistake by TWCs engineer.

[barnabas1969]

Ok after thinking about some previous posts where someone says their TWC DVR works but MCE doesn't I have some questions...
The TWC DVR's are Cisco and guess what? They have an "M" card inside them. If this problem is specific to CableCARDS, how is it possible the TWC DVR's work but MCE doesnt? So here are the facts...

<snip>

Thoughts everyone?

Obviously, you didn't read this post, which says:

Per the CableLabs specification, cable boxes that are not sold to end users (e.g., cable boxes that belong to the cable company) are not required to honor any copy protection flags. However, any CableLabs certified device that is sold to an end user must comply with the copy protection flags it receives. So your assumption that because the Insight DVR recorded the program, the flag was not set by NBC or WCMH is not correct. NBC, WCMH, or Insight could have set the flag, and more than likely your cable box would just ignore it, while WMC would be forced to honor the flag.

Richard is a very knowledgeable guy, and I would believe him when he quotes CableLabs specifications and FCC rules/regulations.

[barnabas1969]

I agree 100% but just because MCE complies with CGMS-A doesn't mean that when I'm tuning a digital channel on a digital tuner and watching digital content over HDMI with HDCP that I should be smacked down for an "Analog" flag. The system should be smart enough to know this. This is STUPID!!!This is why MCE has failed in the industry because ALL the bases are not covered and there are still holes that need plugged. It's probably a simple honest mistake by TWCs engineer.

Media Center and other consumer-available DVR's must comply with the analog flags. The reason the cable company's DVR doesn't comply is because it is not a consumer-available device, which means that there is no way that you can pirate stuff that is recorded on the DVR's hard drive (except by using the "analog hole") because the cable company is in complete control of that device.

[dudesky71]

Again, I don't disagree. If I call TWC and ask to speak to the programming engineer to tell him to fix the CGMS-A flag on NBC. They are going to say "What? We need to do what?" and it will fall into a black hole. I've seen it a million times in the ATI days. Maybe I'll drive over there and stand on the sidewalk with a picket sign telling them to fix their CGMS-A flag... LOL!

[dudesky71]

I just called Tier 3 TWC support. Explained the issue in detail and got a ticket opened for the whole Columbus area. Let's see what happens...

[slowbiscuit]

Still missing why you wouldn't start with one of the local station engineers and go from there, that's what Eric is doing I believe. They have pull with TWC to get it fixed assuming they're not inadvertantly putting the flag in when it's sent from the station.

And your local cable franchise authority has higher-level cable contacts, assuming you can get them to understand the problem.

[prijo]

... assuming you can get them to understand the problem.

Lol this is twc we are talking about, right? Short of throwing a complete tantrum over the phone....

[bradt5085]

I'm having this issue too. Columbus Oh, TWC. Ceton infiniTV.

Filed a complaint with the FCC yesterday... we'll see where THAT goes...

[foxwood]

Filed a complaint with the FCC yesterday... we'll see where THAT goes...

Have you called WCMH and told their engineers that TWC are screwing with their channel?

This is the contact form for their broadcast engineers. The broadcast signal isn't the problem, but the people in that group are the ones who will care that this issue is fixed!

http://www.nbc4i.com/story/20754854/bro ... nal-issues

[bradt5085]

Just received this from ceton support:


Hi,

We want to apologize for the inconvenience this is causing you. We are working with WCMH (The Columbus NBC affiliate) to identify the cause of this issue. As soon as we have more information we will let you know.

Thank you,
Ceton Support

[prijo]

Grimm is recording as I type, thank you ceton. Good to see a company that still thinks their customers are important.

[adam1991]

Questions remain:

* what did Ceton and WCMH engineers have to do to resolve this?

* how could the TW boxes possibly record this, when the industry standard technology does what it's told to do and rejects it?

* can we find any AT&T U-Verse customers in the area who can speak to their experience with this?

[prijo]

Questions remain:
...
* how could the TW boxes possibly record this, when the industry standard technology does what it's told to do and rejects it?
......

Since the twc DVR is rented, twc is under no obligation to honor the copy never flag.

[richard1980]

Richard is a very knowledgeable guy, and I would believe him when he quotes CableLabs specifications and FCC rules/regulations.

While I don't disagree with being knowledgeable, the specific points I made were originally brought to my attention by erkotz.

* how could the TW boxes possibly record this, when the industry standard technology does what it's told to do and rejects it?

The "industry standard" involves the use of boxes that are owned by a cable company, which (as I previously pointed out) are not required by CableLabs specifications to adhere to any copy protection embedded in the stream. Only CableLabs-certified devices that are sold to end users are required to honor the copy protection (such as PC CableCARD tuners, TiVo boxes, etc.).

[Sturmie]

Grimm is recording as I type, thank you ceton. Good to see a company that still thinks their customers are important.

I can confirm it's now working as well...just tried recording Grimm and got no errors back.

Thanks to everyone in this thread for their efforts...nice job.

[erkotz]

On my phone now, but I just got word from the station engineer that they believe this is resolved. Can someone in Columbus please check?

Thanks,
-Eric

[prijo]

On my phone now, but I just got word from the station engineer that they believe this is resolved. Can someone in Columbus please check?

Thanks,
-Eric

It is working, thank you thank you and the wife thanks you . the WAF (Wife acceptance factor) is back on the upslope.

[Hifialan]

Everyone who helped, thank you, thank you, thank you. Nice wok, and thank you again.

[erkotz]

I'm glad to hear its fixed. Thanks!