YAMMM Discussion

[epayson85]

So what you are saying is YAMMM updates the local metadata to keep it in sync with the metadata server. I do not find any evidence of this, so I'd be interested to know what evidence you have. Your mention of the folder modification date doesn't really count as evidence because any number of applications could be modifying the files in those folders, thus changing the folder modification date. You'd really need to look at what files are modified, when they were modified, why they were modified, and what program modified them. Keep in mind that YAMMM is triggered by certain changes to the folders/files, so it is very possible that another application is responsible for triggering YAMMM activity. If you are going to blame YAMMM, you need solid evidence to back up your claim.

With Yamm I constantly see my old movies reappearing as "New" with changes being made.

So my answer is for both of these because they are both related. My Media Center has your "movie collection" and it has "New" which are the newest additions to your movie library that it has scanned. Proof that it is YAMM updating its meta data is the fact that movies that were already in my library scanned by Yamm are showing up months later again in the New section with new DVD covers or some other kind of new data. This also matches up with the folder modification date. The best part it is... IT ALL STOPPED WHEN I DISABLED YAMM! I dont really need any more proof than that.

I'm not at my HTPC right now, but IIRC you can disable that feature.

I did disable the feature... THE POINT IS I DON'T WANT TO! I want to be able to have my movie collection inside of "my media center". My fear is that the android update for the echo that looks like a my media center clone is going to require it. An even bigger fear is that I may be required to have Yamm to have my movie library on the echo. Which was what my ORIGINAL POST was all about which you can easily read if you go back to the state of the echo 3 page.

I already debunked your original theory about YAMMM killing the HDD, so what's your new theory? And I hope you have evidence this time.

You actually didn't debunk it... you just said that my theory is wrong... you giving out your opinion is not debunking its you just stating your opinion. Other people actually come out in my defense and if you actually go and google "head stopping" on hard drives you will actually see that I am 100% correct so no you debunked nothing.

[epayson85]

Also I I told you that I have a virtual raid which is great for files that don't change often. It can handle files being added and deleted without messing up the backup on the parity drive. However, files being changed like that of meta data being updated constantly by Yamm could cause corrupted files during a restore if one my hard drives failed. You going to try and debunk that too? Is it a flaw in virtual raid? Yes it is, but its flaw I am willing to live with because I gain speed benefits over a normal raid. Another benefit is how easy it is to add and remove drives not to mention if I were to lose a drive and the parity drive at the same time the other drive would be completely intact unlike a real raid. Of course it shouldn't be an issue because the files should never be changing but they do with Yammm.

[richard1980]

I certainly did not post an opinion. I posted a factual explanation of how YAMMM monitors folders....it uses the FileSystemWatcher class, as is evidenced in the error message noted here and here. It does not scan the folders as you suggested.

Your most recent implication is that YAMMM compares local metadata/artwork to TMDB and re-downloads data when an update is detected. I expected you to post actual evidence to support your theory, but the evidence you posted only proves that YAMMM downloaded some metadata/artwork (which I'm certainly not disputing...I'm disputing you theory as to why it downloaded the data, not if it downloaded the data). You posted a theory as to why the new data was downloaded, but you failed to provide any supporting evidence. Quite frankly, it looks like you don't know anything about how YAMMM works and you are just pulling theories out of your aS$. If you are going to make accusations, you really should have the evidence to back it up.

I suspect the real explanation is as follows: YAMMM is configured to listen for changes to the monitored folders and download metadata/artwork when certain changes occur. These changes are occurring periodically and are either triggered by you or another application on the computer. So YAMMM downloads the metadata/artwork, which has been updated since the last time it was downloaded, and which explains why you see changes. A side effect of this activity is the movies appear as "new" to MMC.

Regarding your "virtual RAID", your worries about data corruption are based on an inaccurate theory about how YAMMM works, so I find it pointless to discuss how something that doesn't actually happen is going to cause any data corruption.

[foxwood]

I was curious about the claims about movies showing up in My Media Center as "new" - it's not a feature I've ever paid attention to, but I was surprised when I checked to see some movies that I recorded a long time ago showing up. So I took a look at my Movies folder' and sure enough, lots of the folders had the same Last Modified dates in January. Not all, though, some have been updated since that date, and most had older dates. None of the ones I checked had any updated metadata, though, so I'm not sure what triggered the update of the folder. I'd have to dig deeper, but my guess is I updated the My Media Center service sometime around January 23rd, triggering a check on everything.

[richard1980]

Looking at the files and folders on the drive only confirms whether or not data has been downloaded, but it doesn't tell you why the data was downloaded. The only way that I can think of to figure out why is to monitor drive, process, and network activity simultaneously and use the collected information to determine what is happening between downloads. If YAMMM is actively reaching out to TMDB and comparing all the local metadata with the remote metadata, it should be fairly easy to spot. Honestly though, I don't think that is what is happening. As I previously posted, I think something else is triggering the download, and it just so happens that the newly downloaded information is newer than the previously downloaded information.

[foxwood]

There isn't any newly downloaded data - at least in the half dozen folders that I checked. Just the Last Modified Date on the folder itself. And it looks like the My Media Center app might be using that date in it's display, though I haven't looked into that in detail. If My Media Center is using the Last Modified Date, and YAMM is even occassionally updating those folders, then that would be a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing - an old recording with updated meta-data isn't a "new" movie, and an old recording with no new meta data, but a new "Last Modified Date" on the folder is definititely not a "new" movie.

[richard1980]

I agree, and it appears this may be more of an MMC problem than a YAMMM problem. I haven't been able to find any solid evidence of YAMMM being at fault, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

[epayson85]

Disable Yammm and it stops... I dont really know what other proof I need. I am glad to see other are seeing folders being updated. Also I did post proof my example was the karate kid movie. It put the original 1985 version as the newer version with Will Smiths kid in it. I manually changed it myself so that it would properly show up in "My Media Center". Months later something updated... NOT ON MY END, because I do nothing to the folders once the meta data is set and my meta data from my scraper is in a completely different location, that caused Yammm to redownload the meta data thus changing the meta data back to the will smith kid version. Its not just the folders being modified its the meta data... which is modified by Yammm! I don't care what Yammm says it does or claims it does I am telling you what I am seeing it do. I am also telling you that it stops when you disable. I have perfectly good NFO files and meta data and I just want My Media Center to use that instead.

[richard1980]

Argh! It's like talking to a brick wall. I give up. You are no help at all.

Foxwood, please let me know what you find out. I'll be conducting my own testing as well, and I'll update this thread with whatever info I come up with.

[milli260876]

For what its worth I had the original clash of the titans with perfect metadata from metabrowser, changed to the new - rubbish version... At this point I turned it off. It updated all my cover art too and I don't know why?? Surely it should only do it if you have none??? P#ssed me right off tbh....

[richard1980]

I've been running NetLimiter since yesterday to log all the activity for yammmsvc.exe, and so far all activity has coincided with changes to the monitored folders (i.e., all activity has been triggered locally, either by new movies being added or me purposefully modifying the monitored folders). I have yet to find a single instance of YAMMM just reaching out to the server for no apparent reason, which is what I would expect to find if YAMMM was actually looking for metadata updates. I'll continue monitoring for a while, but I don't expect to see anything different than what I've already seen.

So basically, my own testing does not find any evidence to support epayson85's claim. If YAMMM hasn't looked for metadata updates by now, I think it's safe to say that it never will. Therefore, whatever is causing metadata to be downloaded must be triggered locally.

[foxwood]

Foxwood, please let me know what you find out. I'll be conducting my own testing as well, and I'll update this thread with whatever info I come up with.

I just had a look at the New tab in the Movies Gallery in the My Media Center app, and I noticed a couple of odd things.

First, it only includes movies that start with The.

Second, all 9 movies listed are in the 2nd of two folders listed in the setup on the server. And they aren't the 9 most recently recorded movies, they are the 9 movies starting with The in the 2nd folder that have the most recent "Date Modified" folder. To complicate things further, there are a couple of movies with more recent folders that start with The, but they have some further qualification in the title: for example "Hangover, The (2009) [Perico]". That Perico must have come from YAMMs folder renaming process, but it apparently confuses the My Media Center apps already buggy logic for populating the Movie Gallery.

As for YAMM itself, I couldn't find a single instance of any cover-art or XML files being much newer than the recorded .wtv files. Maybe I'm not recording the right movies, but it appears no-one is interested in updating the movies I record.

About half of the folders in my Movie folders were touched at 1:48am on January 3rd. According to the EventViewer, my system woke up, downloaded A/V updates and did a QuickScan at that time. I have no idea why only some folders, on 2 different drives were touched at that time. I'm running the most recent version, 13.1.12.870, so this Jan 3rd event predates the most recent update (I wouldn't have been surprised if YAMM checked everything immediately after install/upgrade).

Lastly I started to do this checking from my main desktop, accessing the Movie folders as Network Shares. And it turn out that every folder I opened to check, got a new Modified date. So now about a third of my folders have today as their Modified Date. I'll see if the Movie Gallery reflects this tomorrow (I can't seem to force it to refresh itself).

[maseline_98]

I can't get yammm to work at all...I've tried renaming the folders, but there is nothing in the cache folder...I've tried stopping and restarting the yammm service...what am I doing wrong?

My 'Movies' folder is on an external hard drive if that makes any difference....

[Dkeyguy1]

http://missingremote.com/forums/yammm-u ... ing-sunday

[richard1980]

I'll be sure to cross my fingers...

[shaderunner2008]

Waiting with bated breath