WMC server in an iOS-centric home

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Scott R

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WMC server in an iOS-centric home

#1

Post by Scott R » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:36 am

Thought I'd create a new topic here to see if there are others out there, like me, using WMC in a largely iOS-dominated home. I have 3 ATV2's, 1 ATV3, 3 iPhones (2 iPhone 4S's and 1 iPhone 5), and 2 iPads (1 iPad 2 non-retina, and the "new" iPad [3]). In my bedroom is our main desktop PC/server with an Intel i7 CPU running Windows 7 Media Center. It's connected to a SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime 3-tuner cablecard tuner, and at one point I bought a 2nd HDHomeRun Prime that I've yet to get around to getting operational. The server is also our bedroom DVR using the WMC UI. That computer also has a Blu-ray ROM drive, and I have the Plex server app running on it. I have several hard drives filled with my HD movies on it, and the Plex server gathers all of the metadata for these movies for me. In addition, I use an script/app called WTV-MetaRenamer which I have set up to run periodically which renames my WMC .wtv TV shows into a naming convention that Plex will recognize. Plex periodically scans and sees these and gathers the metadata for these TV shows. That room also has an ATV2 (used primarily for Netflix, Hulu+, and an occasional iTunes TV show or movie rental).

In our living (movie) room I have an XBox 360 acting as an extender, as well as an ATV3 and Blu-ray player. It also has an Acer Revo 1600 nettop PC (ATOM/ION CPU/GPU) running the Plex client so that we can play my HD movies (no transoding required). These devices are connected via ethernet (gigabit, in the case of the Revo).

My daughter's room has an XBox 360, an ATV2, and an older Blu-ray player. There's no clean way to run ethernet cable to her room so when she fires up the XBox 360 to watch TV she consumes a lot of our intranet bandwidth.

The Plex server app is great for gathering all of the metadata and storing it in one central location. The iPhones and iPads can then pull up all of my movies and TV shows, complete with coverart, show descriptions, etc., and the Plex server app (combined with the power of my server's i7 CPU), will transcode my Blu-ray .mkv rips and WMC .wtv shows on-the-fly and maintain great PQ. I can even then use AirPlay to push the content from the iPhone/iPad to an ATV. Downsides are that the Plex software does not (currently) support 5.1 audio or Blu-ray subtitles. Another issue is that the Plex server app isn't smart enough (yet, I hope) to grab the .wtv shows as-is and needs help from that script I mentioned previously (WTV-MetaRenamer). Unfortunately, that script gets its metadata from TVDB (if memory serves) and comes up short, not finding the proper info for a good number of my .wtv TV shows. :(

For live TV, I can use InstaTV Pro on the iOS devices to tune in any channel. The app interacts directly with the HDHomeRun Prime tuner, so there's no transcoding going on. Remarkably, my iPhones and iPads seem to be capable of playing the native MPEG-2 HD content. The app is buggy/glitchy, though, so I'm not sure if some of the issue could be due to the high nitrate of the source material. Still, it's pretty impressive.

In an ideal world, the WMC server would transcode on-the-fly all of the incoming TV shows and store them as MP4 files, allowing my client devices to play them back without needing the server to do on-the-fly transcoding at that time. That could theoretically also open up the possibility of the client devices playing back live TV and even having pause/rewind functionality (where it would be relying on WMC to do that work for them), but alas that is not the case and I guess will never be, since Microsoft doesn't seem to be interested in continuing work on Media Center and no other software company has done the work of trying to get CableLabs certified. If you can live without cablecard-dependent channels (i.e., OTA or ClearQAM), then there are some options that seem to come close to offering that, but I'm not sure if even those do what I'd like. For instance, there is the Elgato software for the Mac that will do MP4 conversion, but I don't think it does on-the-fly conversion, so I don't know/think that you could, for example, watch a live TV show on your iPad and pause it.

I suppose eventually we'll see more options come out, perhaps by the cable/satellite companies, or maybe TiVo building its transcoding hardware into a new all-in-one multi-tuner box. SiliconDust showed off some sort of new version of their HDHomeRun Prime which looks to have on-the-fly MP4 conversion built-in, but I'm not sure how that will all work. They still need some sort of "server" somewhere to schedule/record the shows, since I won't be recording them directly onto my iPad/iPhone's limited storage space, and a live TV-only (no pause/rewind/DVR) app is of limited interest to me. But hopefully they've got some exciting things planned.

I've also thought that MS seems to be acting really stupidly by not leveraging their Media Center server expertise and adding on-the-fly MP4 recording to be used in conjunction with their own Windows Phones that they seem to want to sell to people. If they made something proprietary that only worked on these phones, that could potentially be a killer app that could sell more of their phones. Instead, they seem to be deprecating Media Center altogether, and instead are interested in having the XBox 360 be the main hub where you'll get internet-sourced media, including purchasing TV shows and movie rentals a la carte, similar to Apple's iTunes store.

Anyways, I thought I'd start this topic up here in case there were others doing similar things in an iOS-centric home. Post here so that we can exchange ideas.

Pearljamaaron

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#2

Post by Pearljamaaron » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:33 pm

I am in a similar situation but not to the extent you are. I have an i7 pc as my media center and I have 3 xbox's as extenders. We have 2 iPhone 5's and an iPad 2. I didn't purchase any atv's since it didn't seem like any benefit to me. I use aerodrome for AirPlay (pretty good but not perfect). As for playing back shows/movies, I just installed remote potato on all our I devices, works great and even outside of the home! I am debating about upgrading to win8 since my computer needs to be formatted but we will see. I took the approach that I do not want to change inputs on any tv, everything should be done in MC. Not sure if any of this is a help to you, just letting you know your not alone!

Dgr_874

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#3

Post by Dgr_874 » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:07 am

Im about where you guys are too. I have a homebuilt gaming computer that has a Hauppage 2250 card in it that serves as both my gaming and media center computer. It feeds two xbox 360s in the living room and bedrooms. I have two iphone 5's, two iphone 4's and an original ipad for our mobile needs. I bought a Nokia Lumia 900 last year to play with and am still contemplating the move to a windows phone. Im still in pursuit of the perfect whole home system. Right now my focus is on ripping my own DVD's so that they play nice on the XBOXes. Seems like every time think i have the settings down, something goes wrong, lol. The wife really loves the setup so we will be sticking with it for a while.

Scott R

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#4

Post by Scott R » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:55 pm

Pearljamaaron wrote:As for playing back shows/movies, I just installed remote potato on all our I devices, works great and even outside of the home!
I played with RemotePotato a while back, but was extremely disappointed with the PQ of the transcoded content. Maybe I was doing something wrong, but the PQ was horrendous, whereas Plex and AirVideo (another app that has a server component that does on-the-fly transcoding) both offered beautiful PQ. The RemotePotato app also seemed buggy to me, but it seems like the developer hasn't released any updates in over 2 years. The one thing I liked about it was that you could bring up the guide, start a new recording, and about 5-10 minutes later, you could start streaming it on the iPhone, which was a pseudo-live TV (with pause) capability that no other app offers. But, again, if the PQ is horrendous, why would I *want* to watch it that way.

I see a lot of people say nice things about that app, so again, maybe there's some configuration settings I'm missing. How would you describe the picture quality you're getting with that app? Have you tried AirVideo or Plex to compare the PQ that those apps provide?

TastytheDog

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#5

Post by TastytheDog » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:33 pm

Same here-- 1 i7 media center pc recording OTA, 2 iphones, 2 ipads, 1 apple tv2. Will be adding another TV/extender combo as soon as I can afford it (leaning towards the Echo at this point). I use Air Media Center to get content from WMC to iDevices. Have any of you used both that and Plex and is Plex better? Air Media was the only reliable one I could find that would stream WTV files with no fuss, even stuff that's currently recording. Aside from having to occasionally restart the server and manually reconnect all the devices if the power goes out and IP addresses get shuffled it's a pretty nice system. I love the simplicity of having all my media consumable from every screen/device. The only downside I'm dealing with right now is wireless intranet bandwidth-- if I'm streaming a show to my iPad, the wi-fi baby monitor app on a second device won't work as well (router is the newest Apple Airport Extreme). Seems like I can only safely do one streaming option at once, which kind of sucks. If I can't watch a show while keeping an eye on the kid then the whole system is pointless.

One question for you Dgr_874-- how does it work with having your gaming and htpc in the same box? Can you game at full strength while someone else is streaming a show on one of your extenders? Doesn't the media center pc do the transcoding? I'm pretty much an upgraded power supply and graphics card away from having a nice gaming setup, just worried about putting too much pressure on one machine. Mine isn't homebuilt, it's a Dell XPS 8500 so it's a little smaller than a full sized tower and there's no sci-fi cooling system involved.

Scott R

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#6

Post by Scott R » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:43 pm

Tasty, can you elaborate on how you're using AirVideo to play shows that are currently recording? I've gotten that to work, but I've found that if it's only recorded 5 minutes of a 30 minute TV show and I start playing it, the AirVideo app on my iPhone will have a time bar of 5 minutes. So once it hits that 5 minute mark, it will stop, even though, by that point, the actual recording should still be 5 minutes ahead of me. I would then need to refresh the list, select the show again, start playing it, and it will then have a 10 minute time bar. I don't believe AirVideo is smart enough to refresh the timebar automatically, but if you know something I don't, I'd love to hear it.

TastytheDog

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#7

Post by TastytheDog » Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:34 pm

No you're right Scott, you have to refresh and then pick up where you left off. But even with that minor annoyance it's still the easiest most reliable way I've found to watch (almost) live tv or recordings w decent picture quality. Is there a better system for doing this? I couldn't get InstaTV Pro or remote potato to work well enough to switch. What I really want is for the Ceton app to get this functionality. That would simplify things.

Scott R

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#8

Post by Scott R » Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:28 pm

OK, thanks for clarifying that. FWIW, I just experimented a bit more and discovered that I can do this with Plex as well. There's a slightly longer delay before the TV show will appear in the Plex listing, and the Plex client app lacks the 30 second skip feature that AirVideo has, so in its current form I don't see much advantage to using Plex for watching live TV / in-progress recordings. Once a show has completed, though, Plex has the very nice advantage over AirVideo of offering full TV show metadata. You do have to use another script/app as well (WTV-MetaRenamer) to get the shows renamed in a manner that the Plex Media Server is willing to even look at them, though. So, all told, it looks like the best options are as follows:

1) Plex (combined with WTV-MetaRenamer) to watch already recorded TV shows and Movies if you want metadata and can live without 30-second skip. AirVideo if you don't care about metadata and/or do want/need 30-second skip.
2) The Ceton guide listing app to find in-progress shows to watch and set them to record.
3) AirVideo to then watch those in-progress shows, if you want to be able to pause/rewind/skip, but you'll need to restart it periodically to "reset" the time bar. Or, if you don't care about pause/rewind/skip at all, another option is InstaTV for live TV, which is a bit quirky in its present form, but I have gotten it working (it actually streams the raw MPEG-2 stream to the iOS device which amazingly is able to display that pretty well).

I must admit that I'm a bit jealous of the functionality that the TiVo Premiere with Stream box seems to be offering. I was an old-timer with TiVo for a long while, but when one of my two TiVo HD boxes (previous model to the Premier) got fried, I decided to switch to WMC.

Pearljamaaron

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#9

Post by Pearljamaaron » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:20 pm

Scott R, I have never tried Plex or AirVideo. I will give those a try. Remote Potato does not have the greatest quality, but typically its my 2 year old watching movies and she doesnt complain. I tried InstaTV but way too much of a setup. Have you guys switched to Windows 8 yet? The setup I have works great, but occasionally now my computer freezes (media center stops working) and I have to usually restart several times before it works properly again...

Dgr_874

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#10

Post by Dgr_874 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:13 am

TastytheDog wrote:
One question for you Dgr_874-- how does it work with having your gaming and htpc in the same box? Can you game at full strength while someone else is streaming a show on one of your extenders? Doesn't the media center pc do the transcoding? I'm pretty much an upgraded power supply and graphics card away from having a nice gaming setup, just worried about putting too much pressure on one machine. Mine isn't homebuilt, it's a Dell XPS 8500 so it's a little smaller than a full sized tower and there's no sci-fi cooling system involved.
I seem to have no problem gaming and streaming at the same time. Admittedly my homebuilt computer is pretty powerful and I live in a pretty small town so we hardly ever do anything in HD. Usually the wife is just watching some tv through the XBOX extenders while I game. No issues so far and I play some pretty demanding stuff with great fps.

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