29/59 problem on Intel i5 Ivy Bridge 4000

[Mike88]

When I had the problem with my G620 CPU it looked liked a frame or 2 was missing every so often. If someone was walking there would be break or skip in their stride. But it only showed up in WMC, not in WMP or MPC-HC. It did not flicker as shown in the youtube video.

[richard1980]

The difference in performance is due to the difference in rendering between the two applications.

[olyteddy]

The difference in performance is due to the difference in rendering between the two applications.

That's true but as far as I know you can't change decoders for WMC. And you can't watch 'Copy once' in any other application.

[richard1980]

You can change the decoder used by WMC (alternate method), but that it will break copy protected content since it breaks the protected path. Changing the decoder used can clear up any 29/59 symptoms due to two effects of changing the decoder:

1. It changes the decoder (yes, I know, this is very obvious). The decoder is responsible for interpreting the data received and making decisions for handling that data. So any change in the decoder can change the instructions that are sent downstream. If a decoder is used that ignores the progressive_frame flag, the fluctuation of the flag will have no impact on actual rendering. Thus smooth, flicker-free rendering can be realized, but at the expense of correct frame processing.
2. It can change the rendering pipeline, transferring processes that would otherwise be handled by the GPU to the CPU (specifically, the deinterlacing/interlacing functions). Transferring the functions that cause the symptoms from a problem device (a certain GPU) to a non-problem device (the CPU or a different GPU) will obviously mitigate the symptoms.

When you change from WMC to some other software that doesn't use the MS DTV decoder, you have not only changed the software player, but you have also changed decoders. AFAIK, WMC is the only piece of software that uses that specific decoding/rendering pipeline, which explains why other software is able to play 29/59 content without symptoms.

[Mike88]

I'm still curious/confused though.
The OP was using WMC & had light & dark flickering. I used WMC and had missing frame stuttering. If we were both using the decoder in WMC then how come we experienced different problems?

[richard1980]

Light and dark flickering happens because the RGB output range is normally controlled by the GPU. When the GPU changes processing modes, there is a split second where the RGB output range may differ from the normal output range. The solution (I use this term loosely) is to take that ability away from the GPU, which is what the NominalRange registry edit does. It forces WMC to control the RGB output, which will remain fixed at whatever you set in the registry.

Stuttering (caused by the 29/59 issue) is due to the length of time it takes for the GPU to change processing modes. If it takes longer than the amount of time that passes between frames, then at least 1 frame will be dropped (maybe several frames are dropped, depending on how long it takes the GPU to finish changing processing modes). The solution (again, term used loosely) to this is to use a GPU that has a shorter transition time (or use the CPU instead of the GPU).

[foxwood]

So which category of solution does "Disable dynamic contrast" fall into?

[newfiend]

So which category of solution does "Disable dynamic contrast" fall into?

Workaround

[richard1980]

LOL...everything is a workaround. NominalRange? Workaround. Disable dynamic contrast? Workaround. New GPU? Workaround. Switch to CPU? Workaround. Switch to CE device? Workaround.

Encode the video properly? Solution. (Of course, it's worth noting that even a properly encoded video can exhibit the frame rate switching, but at least the progressive_frame flag is set correctly in such a case. AFAIK this is only happening in the UK.)

[foxwood]

The reason I ask is that I was under the impression that the Clarkdake i3 was supposed to handle the 29/59 well, but on the occassions that Verizon makes HBO available for free, I've found it's uncomfortable to watch, because it seems jerky (i3-540 in the HTPC).

I never bothered to follow it up, because I don't really have time to watch any more stuff, and HBO isn't a big priority for me, but if there's a driver update or setting I should change, I'd try it out, but the symptoms I see don't sound like they have anything to do with that Dynamic Contrast setting, and I only see them on HBO, which I've only tried watching once in the last 18 months.

According to this web page the i3-540 should be OK - should I be checking anything about this again, for the next time we get free HBO?

[richard1980]

The driver does have a lot to do with it. IIRC, some newer NVIDIA drivers have caused stuttering issues on GPUs that otherwise did not stutter. AFAIK, the latest driver is good to go, but I think newfiend is the one that seems to know more about the driver versions.

[newfiend]

Form my experience with HBO (Had it for the last year or so with our cable package and just canceled it) HBO was one of thee, if not thee worst offender for 29/59. I would suggest that if you are experiencing this issue with the i3 to try and disable the dynamic contrast and try watching HBO again. See if it fixes the issues you had/have.

I have a GT430 and a GT640 Nvidia Card. For awhile there the driver packages from Nvidia were a mess with exhibiting the 29/59 bug.. The latest builds have been much improved and no longer exhibit the behavior. It's like Richard said though all the things we do to "fix" it are basically a workaroud to avoid the flicker. The only way to really "fix" it is for the person encoding the video to do it correctly. And IMO whoever they have working at HBO encoding their video needs to go back to school or be replaced as most of their content has 29/59.

Next time you get HBO for free try the workaround..Let us know how it plays out for you.
newfiend~

[richard1980]

I'd also like to point out that part of the problem may actually be telecine judder.

[tad]

In all fairness, user tad was the person that originally posted the Ivy Bridge solution.

Thanks for the shout out. I setup a new system with a i5 3570k and had this problem back in early December - I'm glad disabling dynamic contrast fixed it for you, too. My system looks great now and the HD4000 has been more than capable.

[richard1980]

I actually just changed to Ivy Bridge (i3-3225) yesterday after I killed my other motherboard. 29/59 content plays smoothly, and I did a test just to see if I could see the flickering (I saw it!), and of course I disabled dynamic contrast (or as Intel calls it, "Adaptive Contrast Enhancement"...what they are enhancing I have no idea). I just wish I had as much control over the color settings with Intel's software as I had with my NVIDIA GPU. Intel's software only allows me to adjust gamma in steps of 0.1, whereas NVIDIA's software allowed me to adjust gamma in steps of 0.01. It makes fine-tuning the settings impossible. Additionally, the HD4000 graphics doesn't support 0-255 (well, it would if Intel would fix the software). So needless to say, I'm not exactly happy with the HD4000 graphics at the moment, but it will suffice.

[newfiend]

I actually just changed to Ivy Bridge (i3-3225) yesterday after I killed my other motherboard. 29/59 content plays smoothly, and I did a test just to see if I could see the flickering (I saw it!), and of course I disabled dynamic contrast (or as Intel calls it, "Adaptive Contrast Enhancement"...what they are enhancing I have no idea). I just wish I had as much control over the color settings with Intel's software as I had with my NVIDIA GPU. Intel's software only allows me to adjust gamma in steps of 0.1, whereas NVIDIA's software allowed me to adjust gamma in steps of 0.01. It makes fine-tuning the settings impossible. Additionally, the HD4000 graphics doesn't support 0-255 (well, it would if Intel would fix the software). So needless to say, I'm not exactly happy with the HD4000 graphics at the moment, but it will suffice.

Wow, you got that back up and running pretty quick.. Newegg?
How was the Mainboard to set up and install?
newfiend~

[richard1980]

I ran into a problem when there were no native drivers in Windows 7 for a few of the devices...notably the NIC. I don't have an optical drive in my HTPC, so I had to go find one so I could grab the driver from the ASUS driver DVD. Other than that install was a breeze. The hardest part has been restoring all my custom changes to the system settings, for both WMC and W7 in general. I didn't realize how many little things I had customized.

And yes, I got everything from Newegg and had it overnighted so I could work on it over the 3-day weekend.

[newfiend]

I ran into a problem when there were no native drivers in Windows 7 for a few of the devices...notably the NIC. I don't have an optical drive in my HTPC, so I had to go find one so I could grab the driver from the ASUS driver DVD. Other than that install was a breeze. The hardest part has been restoring all my custom changes to the system settings, for both WMC and W7 in general. I didn't realize how many little things I had customized.

And yes, I got everything from Newegg and had it overnighted so I could work on it over the 3-day weekend.

Ya that's one area that is always a pain.. No NIC = hard to get online to download anything including drivers/updates. Glad you have a PC again. Yes it is amazing how much little tweaking of settings you can do on a PC to get what you need. It especially stinks when you have to start from scratch on a new build and can't use an image to restore. Love NewEgg.. They always seem to have the best service and prices on most things.
newfiend~

[JazJon]

Disable dynamic contrast. If that doesn't work, keep disabling post-processing "features" until it does work.

http://thegreenbutton.tv/forums/viewtop ... 896#p35896

A new Intel HD 4000 Graphics driver came out this week from Intel. (supposed to give a 10% performance increase)
http://www.techspot.com/news/52113-ivy- ... cl-12.html

The GUI is completely redesigned. I don't see the dynamic or adaptive contrast feature to turn on or off any more.



Navigate to Intel’s support page: http://www.intel.com/p/en_US/support/
At the top of the page, click ‘Automatically detect and update drivers and software’.

[richard1980]

Open the Video page. At the top left you'll see a back arrow, the word "Video", and an arrow that points down. Clicking the arrow that points down will expose a menu. Click the menu option "Image Enhancements". At the top of the Image Enhancements page, you'll see a button labeled "Advanced". Click it, and you'll see the advanced page, which contains the option to set "Contrast Enhancement".