Windows 8 Using a Remote Control

[nxsfan]

I made a video that shows what it's like to use Windows 8 with a remote control on an HTPC. This information might be old hat now, but I couldn't find it before I updated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZE2AFb ... e=youtu.be

Overall experience: Good! It's insanely fast and I can do everything I could do on Windows 7 + 7MC.

I am however severely dissapointed at the wasted potential of some of the Metro applications, particularly the Netflix app.

Something I didn't realise before upgrading: Media Browser doesn't work.

I binned the green button and replaced it with a ctrl+esc key combination on my Harmony Remote and that works great.

Application Compatibility with a remote:
ReddHub - GOOD
tunein - NONE
ABC - BAD
IHeartRadio - NONE
The New York Times - EXCELLENT
The Big Picture -EXCELLENT

[jeepguy04]

Thanks for this.

This is why I don't understand why so many people are down on upgrading to win 8. I see a huge potential in expanding the experience of my htpc with "metro" apps. Before, running anything on the computer outside of media center was clumsy at best and plugins usually ran slow. So even if MC hasn't been upgraded any, as long as you can get MC to run as well as win7 (having drivers that work well for all your hardware) then I think it is a big upgrade. So far the apps aren't that great but it is very early on and I see this ecosystem producing apps on par with ios and android.

That being said I haven't upgraded my htpc yet. I am playing with win 8 on my old work laptop and so far I will say it is interesting. After doing research on drivers and such I may try the upgrade in a few weeks.

[Guy2095]

As I posted to the great video on youtube:

AGREE --- so close, so frustrating!

Just some standards updates and a little conformity by app developers could make Windows 8 a pretty good remote control environment.

With so many high resolution big screens out there you'd think this would be a no-brainer.

[crawfish]

That's a good demonstration of what I've been talking about for months whenever I see someone get all excited and jump to the conclusion that Metro is the perfect remote interface. I wrote the following just a couple of days ago, and your video hit on just about all of it:

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 833#p31833
Metro is not a 10' interface. It is a touch interface, and its apps are designed for touch. The tiles can be big because they are designed for fat fingers and to avoid large expanses of empty space on the display. Any remote control operation of them is a side-effect of enabling navigation with the arrow keys and selection by pressing Enter on a keyboard; these remote control signals are translated into keypresses, so this part works. However, having a collection of tiles for various media apps is not immediately useful, because there's no coordination. For example, you would typically want to stop one when starting another, and that doesn't just happen automatically. Plus, when you launch a tile, you will typically end up in an app designed for the 1' touch interface, not 10' remote control operation, and you will likely find it's not optimized for the latter. Windows 8 is not the answer to anything in this area. The answer to the 10' interface remains in programs like Media Center and XBMC that contain and coordinate everything and are designed for 10' operation, and since Media Center is on death watch, well...

Another thing: there are no folders in Metro, which means your media apps appear alongside other programs you'd never want to launch with the remote control, and you might not be able to get out of them with the remote control when you launch them by accident.

[foxwood]

Another thing: there are no folders in Metro, which means your media apps appear alongside other programs you'd never want to launch with the remote control, and you might not be able to get out of them with the remote control when you launch them by accident.

That's really not an issue for a dedicated HTPC - if you don't want those tile on the start screen, you just delete them.

[crawfish]

Another thing: there are no folders in Metro, which means your media apps appear alongside other programs you'd never want to launch with the remote control, and you might not be able to get out of them with the remote control when you launch them by accident.

That's really not an issue for a dedicated HTPC - if you don't want those tile on the start screen, you just delete them.

If you're building a dedicated HTPC, then you really have no business buying Windows 8.

But assume for a moment someone accepts your point. Now all they need is the apps, which as I mentioned have to be designed for 10' (none have been to date) and have to cooperate in the non-shell (in the WMC and XBMC sense) that is Metro.

[milli260876]

You can remap the green button to take you to the start menu/home screen Which is what I did...
Then if you "accidentally" launch an app you can get back....
Hey haters gotta hate !!!

[nxsfan]

I understand Metro is designed with touchscreen users and not HTPC users in mind. It is also obviously correct that you can launch applications that won't play nice with a remote and could indeed autoplay some content for example that you can't stop without a mouse - not good. But it is trivial to remove offending applications from the interface.

While the front end might not have been designed with HTPC/remote users in mind - it's a fact that it does work with a remote, the only requirement being that the "Green button" is remapped to the Win key, or ctrl+esc, this is not perfect but it's achievable for all 7mc users: http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... =49&t=2132

I'm sure 99% of all Metro applications will be made without giving a second thought to HTPC/keyboard users (eg the RadioTime app), but frankly that's meaningless. It is clear now that apps can be made that work perfectly for HTPC users, like the very nice New York Times app which works perfectly with a remote (the intention of the interface design is totally incidental if it works for us).

More importantly, it is now possible for people to make HTPC friendly applications far more easily than using the old 7MC SDK. If I was to make another Windows HTPC application, I would make it as a metro application without a second thought - and I even have a nice place to sell it! The only downsides are the store can't be used with a remote and there is no HTPC specific category (but we could have HTPC specific keywords).

Assuming the teething issues with tuners, .net 7MC plugins, etc are overcome (and of course almost all of them will be), I earnestly believe that Metro is one of the best and most exciting things that has happened to Windows HTPC users. The one major caveat I have is that there is no unified remote control friendly keyboard - but these can be made on a per application basis.

To recap: Metro might not be designed to work with a remote, but it can be made to work great with a remote. Metro applications might be generally made without remote controls in mind, but that doesn't stop me or anyone else from making an application specifically for HTPC users - and much more easily than natively for 7MC.

PS. The fact that this didn't occur to the netflix developers is totally effing insane.

[kc10boom]

Whoever designs an interface that allows a Kinect device to be used a remote control for the PC will become very rich.

[crawfish]

While the front end might not have been designed with HTPC/remote users in mind - it's a fact that it does work with a remote

Like I said, you can move from tile to tile and select tiles with a keyboard, and remotes send keypresses for the arrow keys and Enter, so that's to be expected. It doesn't really help much, though, for the reasons I gave.

the only requirement being that the "Green button" is remapped to the Win key, or ctrl+esc, this is not perfect but it's achievable for all 7mc users: http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... =49&t=2132

The Green Button launches Media Center. I don't know why a Media Center user would consider remapping it.

I'm sure 99% of all Metro applications will be made without giving a second thought to HTPC/keyboard users (eg the RadioTime app), but frankly that's meaningless. It is clear now that apps can be made that work perfectly for HTPC users, like the very nice New York Times app which works perfectly with a remote (the intention of the interface design is totally incidental if it works for us).

It's software; it can be designed to work any way the developer sees fit. The problem is, Metro is a touch interface, and designing for 10' as opposed to 1' and remote control operation on top of that isn't even on the radar screen of most developers, I expect.

More importantly, it is now possible for people to make HTPC friendly applications far more easily than using the old 7MC SDK.

What specific things does the Metro SDK provide for developing for the 10' interface and remote control operation?

To recap: Metro might not be designed to work with a remote, but it can be made to work great with a remote.

I think your video demonstrated exactly the opposite.

Metro applications might be generally made without remote controls in mind, but that doesn't stop me or anyone else from making an application specifically for HTPC users

Yeah, so? You can say the same things about every OS that supports remotes.

and much more easily than natively for 7MC.

Please elaborate on that.

PS. The fact that this didn't occur to the netflix developers is totally effing insane.

But it's great support for the observations and predictions I've made.

[tommo]

That's a good demonstration of what I've been talking about for months whenever I see someone get all excited and jump to the conclusion that Metro is the perfect remote interface. I wrote the following just a couple of days ago, and your video hit on just about all of it:

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 833#p31833
Metro is not a 10' interface. It is a touch interface, and its apps are designed for touch. The tiles can be big because they are designed for fat fingers and to avoid large expanses of empty space on the display. Any remote control operation of them is a side-effect of enabling navigation with the arrow keys and selection by pressing Enter on a keyboard; these remote control signals are translated into keypresses, so this part works. However, having a collection of tiles for various media apps is not immediately useful, because there's no coordination. For example, you would typically want to stop one when starting another, and that doesn't just happen automatically. Plus, when you launch a tile, you will typically end up in an app designed for the 1' touch interface, not 10' remote control operation, and you will likely find it's not optimized for the latter. Windows 8 is not the answer to anything in this area. The answer to the 10' interface remains in programs like Media Center and XBMC that contain and coordinate everything and are designed for 10' operation, and since Media Center is on death watch, well...

Another thing: there are no folders in Metro, which means your media apps appear alongside other programs you'd never want to launch with the remote control, and you might not be able to get out of them with the remote control when you launch them by accident.

i don't really agree.

you can customise the start menu, so for example for htpc you could have music, video, netflix, spotify, ted, trailers etc etc as tiles....... if there was remote support why wouldn't this be good as from testing the interface on a 42" led its easily readable. With the only exception news apps which are text centric.

[milli260876]

@crawfish
You are straight in on any thread with a semblance of positivity about win8. That's fine in your opinion win8 doesn't work, but you keep rubbishing anything anyone says. I remapped tgb because it works for me, I can go to start and view my emails, calendar, weather and still have everything that was in windows 7. £25 worth every penny, the "apps" will come from devs that's a cert and all the media centre is dead doom mongers will be right because it will be time to move on....

[tommo]

I really can't see how having win8 apps with remote support wouldn't be anything but amazing..

no dodgy 3rd party plugins
great interface
updated plugins
official plugins
supported plugins
easily pin thing to the start menu/no more having to use 3rd party apps to hack media center to add a shortcut to the start menu.

Sorry but in 2012 when people '"whats wrong with media center" then they're clearly living under a rock, i have a £400 tv that has better apps than media center has. Media center as we know it is moribund and for people like myself that don't want to switch to sky and like having a htpc then have my fingers crossed for some remote control support and great apps and keep media center just for tv.. unless we get an app that can do this using ms great backend.

[nxsfan]

if there was remote support why wouldn't this be good as from testing the interface on a 42" led its easily readable. With the only exception news apps which are text centric.

Assuming you are using 1080p and you haven't done this already: Type "make" and select "make everything on the screen bigger" from settings (EDIT: Make sure you turn the option on), tada! A much more usable and legible HTPC interface.

[kc10boom]

I'll stick with Windows 7 for my HTPC, though I'm enjoying Windows 8 on my desktop. Maybe I'll change over when I get a Surface and use the remote client as a remote. I can control my Yamaha receiver through a web UI so eventually W8 may be a good deal.

[barnabas1969]

@nxsfan: If you have a keyboard with play/pause/fast-forward/rewind controls, do those work in the Netflix app? If so, then I don't understand why the transport controls on the remote don't work.

Please tell us if these keys on a keyboard work in the Netflix app.

Thank you.

[nxsfan]

It makes no difference whether I press play/pause/stop/ on either the remote or keyboard. The only button that works is space (pause).

[tommo]

if there was remote support why wouldn't this be good as from testing the interface on a 42" led its easily readable. With the only exception news apps which are text centric.

Assuming you are using 1080p and you haven't done this already: Type "make" and select "make everything on the screen bigger" from settings (EDIT: Make sure you turn the option on), tada! A much more usable and legible HTPC interface.

ah good stuff.

I did note xbmc remote and xbmc remote+ in the store but they didn't seem to be remote/keyboard friendly.

[rantanamo]

don't get the negativity on this. Windows 8 would make a great 10 ft interface if a little remote support is figured out. The apps and its look is just like the Xbox 360. Don't be surprised if the community figures this out soon. If it happens, just group together your tiles for different apps, and especially on a dedicated HTPC, you can run the apps, and not have to close them. In case anyone hasn't used 8, app switching is quick and apps are light. You could easily have the ultimate media center because you'd have a beautiful easily controllable app for everything, and just switch to media center for tv and configuration. You could even majorly pair down what's on your media center.

[adam1991]

don't get the negativity on this. Windows 8 would make a great 10 ft interface if a little remote support is figured out. The apps and its look is just like the Xbox 360. Don't be surprised if the community figures this out soon. If it happens, just group together your tiles for different apps, and especially on a dedicated HTPC, you can run the apps, and not have to close them. In case anyone hasn't used 8, app switching is quick and apps are light. You could easily have the ultimate media center because you'd have a beautiful easily controllable app for everything, and just switch to media center for tv and configuration. You could even majorly pair down what's on your media center.

You sound just like an Apple fanboi.