Hello all.
Just wanted to chime in here with my experience with the Ceton card.
First off my HTPC setup is as follows (although it probably doesn't matter much):
eVGA z68 Micro
Corsair Builder CX600W PSU
Samsung 830 SSD 128GB
Core i5-2400 3.1GHz
Corsair Vengeance 8GB
eVGA GTX 560Ti
Windows 7 Ultimate (x64)
LG Bluray Drive
Ceton InfiniTV4 (of course) on Charter Business line with standard, expanded, and HD packages.
Yamaha RX-V1800 AVR
Samsung PN63A650 63" Plasma
My setup works consistently and reliably about 90% of the time. However, on occasion, I do get the 'Subscription required' or 'No tuners available' errors briefly. Usually the error goes away pretty painlessly, by either restarting WMC and/or Windows7. This is fine, I wont complain too much about it. But then there has been two scenarios where I couldn't get the errors to go away no matter what I did. I couldn't get any channels above 13 (713 for HD) for a week or more both times.
When I'm in this state, if I restart Windows 7 and load up WMC, then attempt to tune to a channel above 13/713, I would get a message telling me to update 'PlayReady'. I proceed to update it, and it says that it was successful, but still no channels above 13/713. I restart my HTPC again, and the 'Update Play Ready' message returns. Now this is where things get aggravating. It's usually around this time that I start calling Charter to see if there are any issues on their end or if there is anything they can do. However, it seems the cable companies don't have very good technical assistance (if any at all) when it comes to Cable Cards, and so far NONE of the reps have even heard of the Ceton. Anyway, they usually say they can send 'hits' to the tuner and see if it fixes it. It usually takes several attempts on their end, as well as me updating PlayReady several times, and restarting the HTPC in addition to me power cycling the Tuning Adapter, before it magically starts working again. Then everything works great for another few months.
A couple of notes/observations I made during troubleshooting this;
-The first time it happened, i sent a diag capture to Ceton, and they said everything looked fine. The Ceton Diagnostic utility would tune to all channels and reported no issues, even though if I tried to watch those same channels (anything above 13/713) in WMC, it would say 'Subscription Required'.
-The second time this happened (just two weeks ago), the Ceton diagnostic tool reported issues(I dont remember exactly what it said) when trying to tune to those channels. So anyway, I went straight to Charter this time. After I had Charter send a few hits to the tuner, and I updated PlayReady (a few times), then restarted the HTPC and Tuning Adapter magically everything is fine again.
-I have seen a temperature warning in the Ceton Diagnostic Utility before and im wondering if this could be part of the issues myself or others are experiencing.
-Lastly, in addition to the random 'Subscription required' and 'No Tuners Available' that usually only appear briefly, I also have some minor issues recording and certain channels have flickering issues (mainly AMC). The recording issues aren't too often that i've completely given up yet, but it is getting a bit irritating.
-I've still yet to find any sort of solution to the flickering on AMC (762).
I haven't gone through and checked my signal levels or anything like that simply because I never had these issues on Charter's HD-DVRs that I used for years. I've been in the same house with all the same wiring and signal amplifier and everything worked fine on Charter's box up until February of this year when I switched to the Ceton. So I don't know what the issue is, but I hope there is some solution to it. I really like the Ceton's four tuners, and the WMC interface better than any cable co's junk, but this quite a price to pay for that.
Occasional Subscription Required & No Tuners Available
Forum rules
Ceton no longer participate in this forum. Official support may still be handled via the Ceton Ticket system.
Ceton no longer participate in this forum. Official support may still be handled via the Ceton Ticket system.
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Napalm
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Occasional Subscription Required & No Tuners Available
Last edited by Napalm on Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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barnabas1969
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You have a lot of stuff in that post. I'll try to be brief.
First of all, the Ceton and the Tuning Adapter (TA) are both VERY finicky about signal quality and strength. Do not AssUme that because the old DVR worked that your signals are correct. You know what they say about when you assume. It makes an A$$ out of U and ME. Trust me... I made a huge a$$ out of myself on this forum by not testing something very simple... and people will never let me forget it.
You need to get your signal strength (level) and your signal quality (Signal to Noise Ratio or "SNR") in line first. They can both vary from one channel to another. There is a tool in this thread that will help you identify your lowest frequencies, some middle frequencies, and the highest frequencies used by your channels. The channel number is not an indication of the frequency. It is possible for channel 1000 to use a lower frequency than channel 100. This tool will help you identify that. It will also output the signal strength and SNR for each of those channels (as measured by the Ceton card). You need to make sure that the signal strength is between -10dB and +10dB for each of these frequencies (even better if they are between -7/+7). Also the SNR should be 35dB or higher (or somewhere very close to 35 like 34.8). The closer the signal strength is to 0dB, the better. But it's a balancing act... if your highest and lowest frequencies are at -7dB, and your middle frequencies are at +7dB, there's not much you can do about that besides calling your cable company to ask them to send a technician to "balance" your node. This requires the cable tech to climb the pole (or open the utility box if you have underground utilities) and adjust things at the point where your cable connects to the big fat cable up on the pole (or in the ground if you have underground utilities).
The signal strength and quality of the frequency that the TA communicates on is entirely separate from those reported by the Ceton tuner. The TA usually communicates on a frequency that is much lower than those used by your channels. I can't remember off hand where in the Ceton web pages this is located (someone else will surely post here and point you to the URL), but once you find that web page (the internal web pages of your Ceton tuner), you will need to get the signal strength and SNR in the same range as above for the TA.
Getting your signals correct may require replacing some cabling (do NOT use RG59 cable... you MUST use RG6), replacing the connectors on your cables, replacing splitters and reducing the number of splitters between where the feed comes into your house and the Ceton, adding a bi-directional amplifier, asking your cable company to come do these things for you, or any combination of the above. Once you get ALL of your signals (all channels AND the TA) in this range, THEN you can proceed to troubleshoot other problems. Until this is fixed, don't even bother with anything else.
None of the above has anything to do with reinstalling or updating PlayReady. If you continue to have problems with the "subscription required" message after getting your signals in line, then you may have a defective CableCARD or Ceton. Your CableCARD should NOT lose your subscriptions. There have been others who had similar problems, and some were resolved by replacing the CableCARD (this should be your first action after getting your signals correct) or replacing the Ceton (only after working with Ceton support).
If you are having flickering on AMC, it may be due to the "29/59 issue." Google it. There are plenty of resources here and on experts.windows.com. In order to help you, we need to know more about your video card, the video driver version you're running, and its settings. You'll also need to determine if you are in fact having the 29/59 issue. You can do this by pressing 411 and then pressing the Info button on your remote (or 411, Control+D on your keyboard). Then you'll need to press the right arrow key until you see the frame rate display. If you see the frame rate changing between 29 and 59 Hz when the flickering occurs, then you have the 29/59 issue. Richard1980 is the resident expert on this subject around here, and I'm sure he'll chime in.
If the temperature of your Ceton tuners ever gets above 65C, you have a cooling problem. The Ceton runs pretty warm, and it doesn't really need any extra heat sinks on it, but you do need sufficient air flow through your case. You need to correct this.
First of all, the Ceton and the Tuning Adapter (TA) are both VERY finicky about signal quality and strength. Do not AssUme that because the old DVR worked that your signals are correct. You know what they say about when you assume. It makes an A$$ out of U and ME. Trust me... I made a huge a$$ out of myself on this forum by not testing something very simple... and people will never let me forget it.
You need to get your signal strength (level) and your signal quality (Signal to Noise Ratio or "SNR") in line first. They can both vary from one channel to another. There is a tool in this thread that will help you identify your lowest frequencies, some middle frequencies, and the highest frequencies used by your channels. The channel number is not an indication of the frequency. It is possible for channel 1000 to use a lower frequency than channel 100. This tool will help you identify that. It will also output the signal strength and SNR for each of those channels (as measured by the Ceton card). You need to make sure that the signal strength is between -10dB and +10dB for each of these frequencies (even better if they are between -7/+7). Also the SNR should be 35dB or higher (or somewhere very close to 35 like 34.8). The closer the signal strength is to 0dB, the better. But it's a balancing act... if your highest and lowest frequencies are at -7dB, and your middle frequencies are at +7dB, there's not much you can do about that besides calling your cable company to ask them to send a technician to "balance" your node. This requires the cable tech to climb the pole (or open the utility box if you have underground utilities) and adjust things at the point where your cable connects to the big fat cable up on the pole (or in the ground if you have underground utilities).
The signal strength and quality of the frequency that the TA communicates on is entirely separate from those reported by the Ceton tuner. The TA usually communicates on a frequency that is much lower than those used by your channels. I can't remember off hand where in the Ceton web pages this is located (someone else will surely post here and point you to the URL), but once you find that web page (the internal web pages of your Ceton tuner), you will need to get the signal strength and SNR in the same range as above for the TA.
Getting your signals correct may require replacing some cabling (do NOT use RG59 cable... you MUST use RG6), replacing the connectors on your cables, replacing splitters and reducing the number of splitters between where the feed comes into your house and the Ceton, adding a bi-directional amplifier, asking your cable company to come do these things for you, or any combination of the above. Once you get ALL of your signals (all channels AND the TA) in this range, THEN you can proceed to troubleshoot other problems. Until this is fixed, don't even bother with anything else.
None of the above has anything to do with reinstalling or updating PlayReady. If you continue to have problems with the "subscription required" message after getting your signals in line, then you may have a defective CableCARD or Ceton. Your CableCARD should NOT lose your subscriptions. There have been others who had similar problems, and some were resolved by replacing the CableCARD (this should be your first action after getting your signals correct) or replacing the Ceton (only after working with Ceton support).
If you are having flickering on AMC, it may be due to the "29/59 issue." Google it. There are plenty of resources here and on experts.windows.com. In order to help you, we need to know more about your video card, the video driver version you're running, and its settings. You'll also need to determine if you are in fact having the 29/59 issue. You can do this by pressing 411 and then pressing the Info button on your remote (or 411, Control+D on your keyboard). Then you'll need to press the right arrow key until you see the frame rate display. If you see the frame rate changing between 29 and 59 Hz when the flickering occurs, then you have the 29/59 issue. Richard1980 is the resident expert on this subject around here, and I'm sure he'll chime in.
If the temperature of your Ceton tuners ever gets above 65C, you have a cooling problem. The Ceton runs pretty warm, and it doesn't really need any extra heat sinks on it, but you do need sufficient air flow through your case. You need to correct this.
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newfiend
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That was brief? LOL
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barnabas1969
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I said that I would "try". It was as brief as possible considering all the different problems mentioned by the OP.newfiend wrote:That was brief? LOL
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newfiend
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Just teasing.. You did very well. =)
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barnabas1969
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I know you were teasing, newfiend. I thought it was pretty funny when I wrote it. Lots of people just don't get my humor. It happens to me in meetings at work all the time. Some people will be laughing at my jokes, while others just stare with a confused look on their faces.
Just yesterday, my boss said something in a meeting about another guy who works in one of our other offices. His last name is Anderson. When she said, "Mr. Anderson said....", I smiled and told her that she needs to pronounce it "Misssster Anderson" (with a long "S"). Some people laughed (those who understood the "Matrix" reference), while others just looked confused.
Just yesterday, my boss said something in a meeting about another guy who works in one of our other offices. His last name is Anderson. When she said, "Mr. Anderson said....", I smiled and told her that she needs to pronounce it "Misssster Anderson" (with a long "S"). Some people laughed (those who understood the "Matrix" reference), while others just looked confused.
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newfiend
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Ya.. Us media geeks and our movie references confuse the natives sometimes.. LOL.. I get the same looks..your not alone bro. 
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barnabas1969
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I thought it was funny when she said, "Mr. Anderson", because nobody here EVER refers to him that way... we all call him by his first name.
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newfiend
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Love the matrix movies .. Good fun. Gotta like Misssster Anderson.. That was probably one of his best roles in film. Neo kicked serious butt.
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Last edited by newfiend on Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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erkotz
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To start off with, I would *highly* recommend you install our latest beta drivers and firmware on the InfiniTV. Beyond that, uninstall (not disable...uninstall) any internet security/antivirus programs that you have other than MS security essentials. See if the issue persists past that.
Quality Assurance Manager, Ceton Corporation
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Napalm
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Hmm... that's interesting...
My post was actually a response to someone else's thread that was describing something similar to what I have experienced (although they were having the issue much more frequently).
Anyway, I guess the mods decided to break my reply off into it's own thread. In any case, I do greatly appreciate the time you spent replying barnabas1969, and now I will absolutely take advantage of the information you provided.
Erkotz; thank you as well, I do not have any Internet Security nor AV running on the HTPC.
My post was actually a response to someone else's thread that was describing something similar to what I have experienced (although they were having the issue much more frequently).
Anyway, I guess the mods decided to break my reply off into it's own thread. In any case, I do greatly appreciate the time you spent replying barnabas1969, and now I will absolutely take advantage of the information you provided.
Erkotz; thank you as well, I do not have any Internet Security nor AV running on the HTPC.
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newfiend
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If your problems continue after the suggestions please do not hesitate to reply here again. There are a lot of knowledgeable people here as well as Ceton to help you. I do think you may as well be experiencing the 29/59 frame rate bug as well with the flickering on AMC. If you are not running the current Nvidia driver WHQL 306.23 I would highly suggest you install that with the clean install method (during install select custom install, check the box for a clean install and continue installation). This driver has past my tests on the 29/59 bug. In Nvidia control panel set content type reported to display to full screen videos as well. This should hopefully get rid of the flicker problem you are experiencing. Nice hardware choice btw.. I have almost the exact same setup as you.
newfiend
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newfiend
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Last edited by newfiend on Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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newfiend
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Also.. in NVIDIA control panel change Digital Color Format (Adjust desktop color settings) from RGB to YCbCr444 and also change the Dynamic Range (Adjust Video Color settings / Advanced Tab) from limited to full 0-255 if your using HDMI. You may have to tik the "with Nvidia Settings" button to make some adjustments. this should give you better color on your TV.
I am also a +1 on using Microsoft Security Essentials on the HTPC without issue.
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I am also a +1 on using Microsoft Security Essentials on the HTPC without issue.
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Napalm
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Hmm... well, this is interesting. My signals are PERFECT.
ALL frequencies are well within the ±6dBmV. Most of them are ±3dBmV with only three that are -5.6, -5.8, and +6dBmV. SNR is 36-38dB on all Frequencies.
As for the flickering on AMC. It only does it sometimes, so I started out by verifying that the content that was currently on that channel was flickering, it was. I updated the drivers with a clean install and didn't change any settings. Still flickering. I went and changed all the settings to what newfiend suggested, and the flickering was gone. Well I wasn't satisfied, and I wanted to know exactly which setting fixed the issue. So I decided to reset everything to default (expecting the flickering to return) then I was going to change them one by one until it was gone again. However, it never came back when I reset everything to default. haha Pesky lil bugger.
I guess ill leave well enough alone for now in regards to that.
I don't have channel 411 in my package, so I'm guessing I cant do that part of what barnabas1969 suggested (since Ctrl+D doesn't appear to work on any other channels)?
Thanks for the help, any other suggestions/checks are appreciated.
ALL frequencies are well within the ±6dBmV. Most of them are ±3dBmV with only three that are -5.6, -5.8, and +6dBmV. SNR is 36-38dB on all Frequencies.
As for the flickering on AMC. It only does it sometimes, so I started out by verifying that the content that was currently on that channel was flickering, it was. I updated the drivers with a clean install and didn't change any settings. Still flickering. I went and changed all the settings to what newfiend suggested, and the flickering was gone. Well I wasn't satisfied, and I wanted to know exactly which setting fixed the issue. So I decided to reset everything to default (expecting the flickering to return) then I was going to change them one by one until it was gone again. However, it never came back when I reset everything to default. haha Pesky lil bugger.
I guess ill leave well enough alone for now in regards to that.
I don't have channel 411 in my package, so I'm guessing I cant do that part of what barnabas1969 suggested (since Ctrl+D doesn't appear to work on any other channels)?
Thanks for the help, any other suggestions/checks are appreciated.
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Napalm
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OK, just figured out that i'm dumb and don't need channel 411, hahah.
So the flickering came back, and it is indeed flipping between 29 and 59 FPS.
I have done a fresh install of WHQL 306.23 drivers, set everything up according to what newfiend suggested, also installed the new Ceton Hardware drivers, and updated to the new Beta Firmware. Still flickering on certain shows on AMC and other channels, but the good news is that the InfiniTV seems to be much more responsive (changes channels quicker, and comes back online quicker after a system restart). I also fixed my InfiniTVtemperature issue by cleaning my case fan filters
and turning up the fan speed on my graphics card since it was running pretty hot (about 70-75C when recording), and it's really close to the InfiniTV.
On to more Googling about this 29/59 business.
So the flickering came back, and it is indeed flipping between 29 and 59 FPS.
I have done a fresh install of WHQL 306.23 drivers, set everything up according to what newfiend suggested, also installed the new Ceton Hardware drivers, and updated to the new Beta Firmware. Still flickering on certain shows on AMC and other channels, but the good news is that the InfiniTV seems to be much more responsive (changes channels quicker, and comes back online quicker after a system restart). I also fixed my InfiniTVtemperature issue by cleaning my case fan filters
and turning up the fan speed on my graphics card since it was running pretty hot (about 70-75C when recording), and it's really close to the InfiniTV.On to more Googling about this 29/59 business.
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barnabas1969
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OK, so now that you've identified that it's the 29/59 issue, what you need to do is RECORD some content that has the problem (or download some of the sample files that are available in various places). Then, you can play that recording, press 411-Info, and verify that it is actually changing frame rate when it flickers. If so, the next step is to do what has already been recommended, and finally PLAY that same recording to verify that it worked.
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Napalm
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Well I verified that the frame rate was switching back and forth.
I checked my NVIDIA settings again and somehow they got reverted back to default. I changed them as suggested and the flickering is gone again.
Other than that everything has been working great.
I wanted to note again that the new Ceton hardware driver and firmware is really an great improvement. The tuners become ready almost immediately after a system restart now (it used to take a couple of mintes), channel changes are much faster as well.
Thanks again for all the help
I checked my NVIDIA settings again and somehow they got reverted back to default. I changed them as suggested and the flickering is gone again.
Other than that everything has been working great.
I wanted to note again that the new Ceton hardware driver and firmware is really an great improvement. The tuners become ready almost immediately after a system restart now (it used to take a couple of mintes), channel changes are much faster as well.
Thanks again for all the help