Windows 8 Pro HTPC Server with extenders

[seneca]

I will be building a whole home Windows 8 media center dvr solution based on a central Windows 8 Pro HTPC serving 4-5 xbox 360s extenders.

I´m aiming at a setup that will be running stable and be easy to use for the kids and wife.

The server will have a few TV tuners, dvb-s2 (Freesat UK and Canal Digital Denmark) and dvb-t2 (local OTA Freeview), and the system will primarely be used for LIVE TV and DVR. The server will be placed in the loft of the house.

I will run Cat 6 cable to all locations, so all connections will be gigabit to my gigabit 24 port switch.

Then to the questions:

1) Would you recommend that I use an Intel Xeon processor (ivy bridge), ECC Ram (16 GB) and a motherboard with dual nic (Intel server board) in the server or will an intel i5 2500K processor with an Intel media series motherboard be sufficient to run the setup in a stable and efficient manner ?

2) Would you recommend to use Logitech Harmony remotes for the xbox 360s extenders or would the xbox media remote (latest black edition) be a better choice ?

3) Would it be advisable to run the living room TV directly from the HTPC server or would it be better to use an xbox 360s extender also in the living room (if so, then the other xbox 360s extenders will be 4 in total).

Would very much appreciate your suggestions on this setup.

Best regards
seneca

[adam1991]

WMC doesn't require a ton of horsepower. i5 should be fine. Keep in mind, this will be a dedicated machine; you won't be doing anything but TV on it. At least, not if you want high WAF...

I use and like the Harmony 300 remote for both the main HTPC (plugged directly into the TV) as well as the XBoxes. My family likes the XBox Media Remote--but get the older white one, not the newer black one.

You might be limited to the number of extenders--isn't 5 the limit? So hooking the HTPC directly to the TV gives you more flexibility. Plus, there are reasons to have easy and direct access to the Windows box itself: it's not 100% bulletproof and you'll need to restart things now and again, you'll want to go to Windows to do some things, and here in the US we have Netflix right from within WMC but only on the main HTPC.

On the other hand, having the family use nothing but the extender keeps their grubby hands off the main HTPC and keeps them out of trouble.

You can have both hooked up to one TV. That would solve both problems. Regular TV viewing is done on the extender, then you can switch over to the HTPC on demand for whatever maintenance duties you need.

[seneca]

Thank you for your much appreciated comments adam1991.

Yes I believe the VMC limit is 5 extenders.

Would it be sufficient just to remote desktop into the Windows 8 HTPC server from another computer when I need to do htpc software maintenance etc. ?

Could you elaborate on why you recommend the older white xbox remotes over the newer black one ?

Regarding Netflix, I believe we will just buy a family gold membership for the xbox´es, then we will have access to all the different US streaming possibilities and games on the xbox (we have currently access to US streaming sites using unblock-us.com and it works great). I know this will be more costly, than using the Netflix client in VMC, but maybe useful, especially for our 4 kids.

[newfiend]

I'll make one suggestion.. If you are currently using Vista, consider Windows 7 MC.. Much better IMO. Edit sorry just saw you are going to use windows 8...
also when considering CPU and memory amount.. You want to have one CPU core and 1 GB of memory per extender. I am running a core i7 with 16gb of ram (its cheap right now) and I have 2 Xbox extenders as well as a Linksys dma2100 extender and I can run all 4 TVs at once without issue. I chose the core i7 as I like to have my PC do some background tasks while watching TV and I didn't want any lag...ever. The core i5 is still plenty powerful enough for what your doing though. The core i7 I got on sale and was only $50 more than the i5 so I opted for more HP.
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[adam1991]

I believe the black one lacks the green button.

I've had enough experience with 7MC (admittedly, I'm doing commercial skip and whatnot) to know that on a regular basis you'll need to touch the PC. Remote access isn't enough.

[newfiend]

The black remote also is missing the stop button..why the heck they felt the need to remove the damn stop button on the remote is beyond me... =/ I have my main htpc hooked up directly to the main TV. There are some things an extender can not do that the main PC can. Also having the ability to just fix any issues right then and there is great as any pc will have to be tweaked from time to time, its the nature of the beast.
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[seneca]

Thank you for your helpful comments adam1991 and newfiend.

I will probably go with the safer choice, a i7 processor for the central HTPC. But how about going with a xeon processor, i.e. an Intel Xeon E3-1245V2 and a server motherboard with dual nic´s and ECC Ram, would this be a better setup for stability and would this setup be better than a i7 setup ?

[newfiend]

Personally, and this is just my opinion... but I think a Xeon chip and a server board would be overkill. Shoot even my HTPC now is overkill.. Recording and streaming TV doesn't need server hardware. For instance my old htpc was an Asus p5n7a-vm board, 4gb of ddr2 800 MHz ram and a Intel q6600 CPU. A ssd and two wd 1tb and a 2tb drive. And it would still stream to all my extenders without issue. I recently upgraded this year as the kids PC was on its way out and they needed parts and it was an excuse for me to upgrade the HTPC. I have a tendency to go overboard on hardware.. Like Adam said even the core i5 would be plenty to do what you want.

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[newfiend]

You would be better off investing the extra money in more ram or an SSD for the OS drive.

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[seneca]

Yes, I will definitely go with an SSD drive for the OS and 16 GB RAM.

[barnabas1969]

I'm not sure I would go with Windows 8. Nobody has gotten the extenders to work with Win8 yet. You might be better off staying with Win7.

Also, I have four extenders and a fifth TV connected directly to my PC. I can run all five TV's simultaneously. RAM usage never exceeds about 6.5GB, and my processor (an i5-760) never gets more than about 30% busy unless there is commercial skipping detection running in the background. Even then, with two commercial detection threads running, I still don't notice any lag on any of the TV's when navigating menus, etc.

Hope that helps you figure out what kind of hardware you need.

[newfiend]

I'm not sure I would go with Windows 8. Nobody has gotten the extenders to work with Win8 yet. You might be better off staying with Win7.

Also, I have four extenders and a fifth TV connected directly to my PC. I can run all five TV's simultaneously. RAM usage never exceeds about 6.5GB, and my processor (an i5-760) never gets more than about 30% busy unless there is commercial skipping detection running in the background. Even then, with two commercial detection threads running, I still don't notice any lag on any of the TV's when navigating menus, etc.

Hope that helps you figure out what kind of hardware you need.

Agreed.. There is a tendancy to think that streaming HD content takes a lot of horse power.. it really doesn't. Some even build HTPC's with the core i3.. If I were to build again I would look into a core i5 and a sufficient amount of ram for the main PC and extenders.. A good SSD and TV Tuner is where it all comes together along with a gigabit network (wired). If your going to use cable card either the Ceton Tuners or Silicon Dust HDHRP are both good. Some like Brian prefer the HDHRP.. I have had the Ceton Card(s) and even a Ceton USB unit and was very happy with all 3. I'm a PC gamer at heart..ask brian (Barnabas1969) he's seen my gaming rig.. When I build I go nuts a bit but I like to have the extra HP when I want it, and I am also impatient..lol
I also agree that for Media Center Windows 7 would be the way to go. At least for now.
newfiend~

[adam1991]

built mine with the Core i3. 8GB of RAM. Main unit, two extenders. Everything works fine.

Now, consider that I'm *also* running ShowAnalyzer to skip commercials. And still everything works fine.

I put my extra money and effort into the networking. New cabling and new gigabit switch. Streaming isn't hard, but it can be if you cheapen out on it. The entire system can run only as fast as its weakest link. You can run a server mobo/processor and multiple processors of multi core goodness, and buy nothing extra for yourself out of that. If you're out of cash for building the pipes necessary to stream all that goodness, you'll never see it all work well.

Balance. More is not better; more is simply more. It's all about balance for the task at hand. Balance the setup well so that there are no bottlenecks.

[seneca]

Thank you for your valuable input it has been a big help.

I wasn´t aware of that the extenders won´t work in Windows 8 (at the moment), then I will use Windows 7 for now, and if necessary upgrade to Windows 8 at a later stage if this makes sense then.

There seems to be some consensus on, that a i5 cpu will be sufficient for the job, so if there is nothing to gain in practical terms to go with an i7 over i5 cpu, then I will probably choose the i5.

I agree on the importance of a good quality network with no bottlenecks and therefore I am running new cat 6 cables to every location, and I am using a gigabit switch. My internet connection should also be ok for streaming services, as I have a 20 Mbit / 1 Mbit ADSL flatrate connection.

I´m based in Scandinavia, so I will not use Ceton Card or Silicon Dust HDHRP tuners. I will probably go with internal dvb-s2 and dvb-t2 tuners from Digitaldevices.de, blackgold.tv or tbsdtv.com. I have read positive things about the tuners from these companies and they should be compatible with Windows 7 media centre.

Do you have any suggestions on which of these produce the best tuners and possible other good options for stable dvb-s2 and dvb-t2 reception ?

[adam1991]

I have a question: why the urge to run Windows 8 at all?

This is a purpose built device. It could run the Glork operating system for all you care, right?

[seneca]

Well, I was thinking, that I could use the Storage Spaces function in Windows 8 as some kind of replacement for my current Windows Home Server v.1, which is running on very old hardware not suitable for HTPC duties (atom cpu). Then maybe I could use the new HTPC server as the one and only server for the whole family, running TV, serve TV to xbox extenders, but also holding all our photos, documents, home videos etc. in the same central location.

[newfiend]

built mine with the Core i3. 8GB of RAM. Main unit, two extenders. Everything works fine.

Now, consider that I'm *also* running ShowAnalyzer to skip commercials. And still everything works fine.

I put my extra money and effort into the networking. New cabling and new gigabit switch. Streaming isn't hard, but it can be if you cheapen out on it. The entire system can run only as fast as its weakest link. You can run a server mobo/processor and multiple processors of multi core goodness, and buy nothing extra for yourself out of that. If you're out of cash for building the pipes necessary to stream all that goodness, you'll never see it all work well.

Balance. More is not better; more is simply more. It's all about balance for the task at hand. Balance the setup well so that there are no bottlenecks.

^ This is really good advice... Especially his thoughs on bottelnecks.. This comes into play not only in the whole network consideration but in selecting the right parts for the build of the main HTPC as well.. If you select all the right parts it does make a significant difference on how well your system works. This was a lesson that I learned the hard way early on. Good advice Adam.

The storage spaces in Windows 8 I can see as being an added bonus.. Especially if you want to add lots of storage drives in a pool. If you add a 2TB HDD to the build to start you should have enough space to get you started. I have a 2TB and a 1TB in my HTPC that got me started and it's nowhere near full yet. I just built a WHS 2011 rig and added Stablebit Drive Pool to it to pool all the HDD space. I recycled some older parts I had and bought a few items to complete the build. It works really well (minus the TV Archive Grrr but that's another story). enough about me ..back to you.

Since you don't have the need for Storage Spaces yet.. I would wait and use Windows 7. Upgrading to windows 8 isn't going to be that expensive later and it will give MS some time to work out the bugs that creep up after a new OS launch.

@ Adam... The Glork OS?? Really Adam?? LOL... made me laugh.. Thanks.

[seneca]

Yes, great advice from adam1991.

I think that I will, for now, concentrate on building the cat 6 network and then buy the hardware, and when Windows 8 has been released with the media center addon on October 26, decide on the software to be used for my HTPC server, windows 7 or 8. Thanks for the good advice to you all.

[CyberSimian]

I will probably go with internal dvb-s2 and dvb-t2 tuners from Digitaldevices.de, blackgold.tv or tbsdtv.com. I have read positive things about the tuners from these companies and they should be compatible with Windows 7 media centre. Do you have any suggestions on which of these produce the best tuners and possible other good options for stable dvb-s2 and dvb-t2 reception ?

TBS certainly produce a very wide range of satellite and terrestrial tuner cards (I have two TBS6284 cards), I just wish that those cards were compatible with a wider range of motherboards. See this post from me:

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 958#p27958

My existing HTPC machine (a Dell XPS 420) has its own motherboard problems (due to a defective BIOS: only one of the slots works with the TBS6284 card), and I am currently considering whether to build a new HTPC. But which motherboard should I get that will work with the TBS6284 cards that I have? It all seems just too hit-and-miss.

If you have not done so already, you should review the threads on the TBS web site to get a feel for the magnitude of this problem:

http://www.tbsdtv.com/forum/

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

[seneca]

I´m looking for stability with my setup, and I can see, as you mentioned, that there seems to be some issues with some of the tbsdtv tuner cards on certain motherboards.

I have read that Digitaldevices.de produce some of the best drivers for Windows 7 and that the drivers are very important in order to get the tuners to work properly. They also bought the Floppy DTV product from the Austrian company Digital-Everywhere and those tuners I believe were some of the best tuners around for Windows media center use.

Do any of you have any experience with tuners from Digitaldevices.de ?