Words to describe video problems

[Crash2009]

I went into Uninstall Programs and uninstalled everything ATI, then shutdown, disconnected the power cord, and discharged any power left in the board.

Turned it back on, logged in, went to device manager, clicked the ATI. As you said, remnents of the old driver were left behind. Driver ver 8.56.16 WDDM 1.1 According to the driver date, 04/2009, I would assume this was part of Catylyst 9.4

Clicked update driver, Win 7 uninstalled 8.56.16, then installed 8.850.0.0, lower number but newer date 04/2011, I assume this is the driver from Catylyst 11.4

Anyway, thanks for all your help, and the combing problem is gone. HD is back, nice and clear. These screencaps are from Happy Feet Two. Your kids might enjoy this movie. I like the animation.

[crawfish]

I went ahead and uninstalled ATI's ver 12.6, then retested with ctrl D 411. No more 29/59.

I'm unaware drivers have any effect on observing 29/59 with 411-info. Did you test the same part of the same clip you tested earlier? If not, it's very likely what you watched this time simply didn't exhibit the problem when you checked for it. It's common for the problem to vary from one 1080i channel to another, from program to program within the same channel, from moment to moment within the same program, and from episode to episode of the same program. That's why you have to save a clip that exhibits the problem for future testing.

[Crash2009]

Oh! The 411 test pictured above was during a live broadcast. I didn't know that I should have recorded a clip that demonstrates the 29/59 bug, then make changes, then watch the same clip, to see if the changes improve anything.

I'm not so sure that this 29/59 thing is bothering me. I was mostly concerned about the combing. The driver changes appear to have corrected that.

Should I be more concerned about the 29/59 bug?

[STC]

In my experience ATI cards seem to do better at disguising the bug then Nvidea cards.
I don't see it visually any more on my suspect channels since swapping out a GT430.

[crawfish]

Oh! The 411 test pictured above was during a live broadcast. I didn't know that I should have recorded a clip that demonstrates the 29/59 bug, then make changes, then watch the same clip, to see if the changes improve anything.

I'm not so sure that this 29/59 thing is bothering me. I was mostly concerned about the combing. The driver changes appear to have corrected that.

Should I be more concerned about the 29/59 bug?

If you're not noticing it, don't worry, be happy. My point was that if that the combing is related to 29/59 (like it is with my GT430 and windowed mode), it may well come back when you watch something affected by it.

[Crash2009]

Well you guys sure kicked the hell out of combing. Between the 6 of you, you answered my question and more. Thanks again!

[Venom51]

There are some sharp guys around this place.

[Crash2009]

Yup there sure is. I'm still trying to stump em. It took awhile to catch this screencap. I call it kablewie.

What is it really called?

[richard1980]

Pixelation. Pixelation occurs when there is a throughput issue, which is most likely due to poor signal strength, but can also be caused by other things such as a failing hard drive.

[STC]

^^ That particular grab shows the captions presented perfectly whilst the pixelation is occurring elsewhere which is strange.

[Crash2009]

Signal strength could be improved quite easily, now that I have all the drops pulled to a central location. There is one more line to pull back to this area. I was thinking about getting some kind of splitter/amp/distributor kind of thing, 8 Port should be big enough. Rack mount would be nice (wake up crash, your dreaming again).

Any ideas on what part I should get?

The existing hard drive is likely on its last legs, nothing showed on any of the diags I ran, but it has a small tick/click in it. I havn't started looking yet, but I plan to get an SSD. The hard drive possability will eliminate itself in the next couple months.

That pixelation grab was off of Encounters of the 4th Kind. Lots of strange video displays in that one. You guys would have to use your whole vocabulary to describe the video problems in that one.

[richard1980]

I haven't seen the movie, but like STC points out, the pixelation is occurring everywhere except for the caption. Which leads me to believe it is actually an intentional effect in the movie. Perhaps that movie is bad test material.

And your signal levels could certainly use some improvement. You want as close to 0 as you can get. -12 is just terrible. From the looks of things, you are getting a 7 dB drop at the InfiniTV just from your splits, which means you are already at -5 dB before the first split pictured. An 8-way splitter would drop 14 dB for each output. That means you need 19 dB of amplification before the 8-way splitter in order to get overall output to 0 dB out of each output from the splitter.

Keep in mind that signal strength will vary from frequency to frequency, so you'll want to test several frequencies.

[Crash2009]

That could be Richard. It is a coincedence that I have been unable to capture a screencap of pixelation up until now. Its usually just for a second, and a lot smaller. Exploding faces, bodies, moving objects. Not 90 % of the screen like in the capture.

Finally caught a good example. A small explosion of pixels as the camera was panning up. The pixelation was coming off the trailing edge.

Getting back to the Poor Signal Quality, I tuned some channels on some different frequency's. I never realized this before until you mentioned it. It appears, as you said, the signal level changes with the different frequency's. If I install a 19 db amp to help out the copy once channels, doesn't this screw up the copy free channels?

[barnabas1969]

OK, I'll chime in...

First, the pixellation will affect moving areas of the image, but still images can sometimes be unaffected. That could explain why the captions in your picture looked good.

Second, why do you have three two-way splitters instead of one four-way? You're attenuating (decreasing) the signal to your cable modem 3.5dB (first splitter), 7dB to your Ceton (2nd splitter), 10.5dB to your other two outputs. Your diagram lists five outputs, but I only see four in the picture. A 4-way splitter will attenuate the signal 7dB to all four outputs.

Third, your cable company may supply a bidirectional amplifier free of charge. Mine does. I had to argue with them to get it... because the cable guy was certain that my signal was good enough... but I got him to give it to me anyway... and it brings my signal strength right where it needs to be. I think it's a 7dB amplifier.

[Crash2009]

I talked to a cable installer today that had dropped in to the business that I work at. He says that Comcast is supposed to provide +15 into the building. I am only about 20 or 30 feet from their big box. (I don't know what its called, I'll take a picture later today).

According to my Ceton and Richards calculations, I am only getting -5 db to the first splitter. This is a Comcast problem. Later today I am going to test their main line directly to the Ceton and see what I get.

In answer to why I have all those splitters daisy chained like that, that's what you get around here when you hire Comcast to install it. It was a sloppy install, I had to clean it up myself. It's so hard to find a tradesman these days.


I just finished testing the main IN. I connected the main IN directly to the Ceton. The diag reads -5.3

My cable comes from this pole, through a very large (maybe fiber) wire, to this grey box. Then regular coax comes out of this grey box, 27 feet to the splitters in the picture above. I'm gonna get those tards on the phone and blast em.

[barnabas1969]

If you're getting -5.3 on the Ceton diag page, then that means that you're getting +1.7 at the end of the wire (before it goes through the Ceton's internal splitter). A bidirectional amplifier should help you. Comcast should provide it for free. I'd also recommend getting rid of all those splitters and use just one 4-way.

[Crash2009]

I bought a little 10 db amp at the hardware store tonight and ran it in to a 4-way splitter as you suggested. It worked pretty good for HBO. Increased my signal from -12.5 dbmV to -2.5 dbmV. Must be the wrong kind of amp though. The cable modem will not work.

I had to split the line before the amp for the cable modem to work. The extra splitter before the amp cost me 3.0, so I am a bit farther ahead. Ceton reports HBO signal level at -5.5 dbmV. A bit better than the -12.5 the old way. This will get me by for awhile until I can order the correct amp.

Another great learning experience. Thanks guys!

[richard1980]

If you're getting -5.3 on the Ceton diag page, then that means that you're getting +1.7 at the end of the wire (before it goes through the Ceton's internal splitter). A bidirectional amplifier should help you. Comcast should provide it for free. I'd also recommend getting rid of all those splitters and use just one 4-way.

That is incorrect. The InfiniTV contains an amplifier that counteracts the attenuation due to the 4-way split. So if he's getting -5.3 on the diag page, he's getting roughly -5.3 at the wire.

[barnabas1969]

If you're getting -5.3 on the Ceton diag page, then that means that you're getting +1.7 at the end of the wire (before it goes through the Ceton's internal splitter). A bidirectional amplifier should help you. Comcast should provide it for free. I'd also recommend getting rid of all those splitters and use just one 4-way.

That is incorrect. The InfiniTV contains an amplifier that counteracts the attenuation due to the 4-way split. So if he's getting -5.3 on the diag page, he's getting roughly -5.3 at the wire.

I've seen information that says both... one says that it has no internal amp, one says that it does. In my experience, testing, and measuring... it does not have an internal amp.

[barnabas1969]

I bought a little 10 db amp at the hardware store tonight and ran it in to a 4-way splitter as you suggested. It worked pretty good for HBO. Increased my signal from -12.5 dbmV to -2.5 dbmV. Must be the wrong kind of amp though. The cable modem will not work.

I had to split the line before the amp for the cable modem to work. The extra splitter before the amp cost me 3.0, so I am a bit farther ahead. Ceton reports HBO signal level at -5.5 dbmV. A bit better than the -12.5 the old way. This will get me by for awhile until I can order the correct amp.

Another great learning experience. Thanks guys!

You need a "bidirectional" amp. That means that it can pass signal in both directions. Your cable modem, cable boxes (if any) and your tuning adapter (if you have one) all need to communicate up-stream. Did you contact your cable company to see if they will provide one for free? It will save you at least $50.00.

EDIT: I noticed that after you added the amplifier, that your signal-to-noise-ratio (SNR) went down. That indicates that the amp you bought isn't the best quality. You need your SNR at or above 35dB. Try calling your cable company.