Taxation, Monarchy, Historic Events, Politics, Kitchen Sinks

[barnabas1969]

I think there is probably plenty of wasteful spending, as there is in any large organization. The federal government is such a huge organization, I don't know how they could effectively control it. It really comes down to the individual choices of the employees. People always seem to want to enlarge their "kingdom", so they spend money to do that.

As for entitlements... we're pretty much stuck with Social Security and Medicare. They're both good ideas. Medicare is actually just as efficient as any large insurance company. Sure, there's waste and fraud... but the same thing can be said for large insurance companies... and the large insurance companies are also operated for-profit... so privatization is NOT the solution.

Social Security, unfortunately, was not started as an annuity. If only they hadn't made the decision at the start to pay benefits to people who had never paid into the system. But we can't go back in time to change that. It was a political decision that was made because it was popular with the older people at the time. I mean, who wouldn't like to get a check every month from a fund that they had never paid in to?

Other entitlements, specifically those for the poor, could be changed to encourage those people to get a job. But that's a tough thing to tackle. Making changes that actually have the intended affect isn't an easy task.

[lithium630]

I don't believe the changes themselves are difficult, the politics behind them are. It's already been done with welfare. Disability is the next big issue. The fraud is rampant and it takes from the truly disabled. In my opinion certain politicians want to keep people dependant on the government for selfish reasons.

[barnabas1969]

Yep, I remember the "welfare to work" changes back in the 90's. I really can't comment very much on whether or not it actually worked. Yes, it reduced the welfare rolls... but I don't know if that was because people who really needed it got kicked off... or even if some people who really don't need it managed to game the system and stay on. It's difficult for someone like me, who has very little exposure to very poor people, to know very much about the people who receive welfare and other aid.

As for disability... it's not too difficult to find a doctor who will declare you disabled. I also know that lots of fraud happens with private insurers. I think that Social Security Disability has a higher bar than private insurers. I know legitimately disabled people who had a VERY difficult time getting Social Security Disability. I also know someone (my ex wife) who defrauds private insurers at every opportunity.

[lithium630]

Unfortunately dealing with it is a big part of job, so you can see how my views are influenced. Must be a big part of health care costs. People love to hate HMOs but when I took my son to the ER for a fever of 106, we waited for 4 hours, saw a physician's assistant not a doctor, and they only have him Tylenol. The insurance company was billed $850 for the visit. Somethings not right.

[barnabas1969]

I loved my HMO. I wish the company hadn't dropped it in favor of a High Deductible Health Plan.

Yep, ER visits are expensive. That's because the hospital has to rape the paying customers to cover the loss caused by the non-paying (uninsured) customers. That's the thing that people don't seem to understand about healthcare reform. They complain that it will be too expensive to provide health insurance to poor people. Well, guess what... you already are... in the form of higher hospital bills. And, those uninsured people don't get treatment until there's a BIG (expensive) problem. If they had insurance, they would go to their family physician and it would cost the rest of us $70 for a doctor visit instead of $700 for an ER visit.

[barnabas1969]

On the subject of insurance and healthcare reform...

I find it ridiculous that the people who are complaining the loudest about the "individual mandate" are the people who already have insurance. They are complaining that the government is forcing them to do something that they are already doing? Crazy.

[lithium630]

This will come as no surprise but I am completely against Obamacare. There is absolutely nothing that the government can run efficiently. Everything ever implemented has cost 7 to 9 times more than estimated. More importantly I think people need to feel like they have a vested interest in health care costs. If all medical care is "free", then they have reason to limit visits and expenses. Uninsured people who rarely go to the doctor know will have no problem going when they have a sniffle.
My HMO will actually pay people to $100 to $250 to have screenings done at specific offices because the cost is so much less. I'm not suggesting everyone do that, but it demonstrates how costs could be lowered.

[Danno100]

Let's face it, the US has the highest cost per capita (by far) of healthcare in the world. Is your system it better than your neighbour to the North? Who has the highest life expectancy, US or Canada (answer: Canada)? This may not be because of a better system, but perhaps because people die earlier if they can't access the healthcare system. Or maybe lifestyles choices (e.g. obesity). The US has a higher per capita income than Canada, and that usually leads to higher life expectancy.

Sure governments around the world can limit visits and expenses in a publically funded system. But do they really do so to the true detriment of society? Canada has had a universal health care system for decades.

My concern with the US system is that there are so many lobby groups paid to inflence politicians to keep the status quo. It is almost obscene. It is all about the money, not about humanity. Yet most of us live in a capitalist world and the vast majority have some form of publically funded health care.

Sorry if I offend anyone.

[lithium630]

I'm not really an expert on the Canadian health care system so I can't compare from personal knowledge. I do know several Canadians who were unhappy with the quality of health care in Canada though, so I don't take it as a given that it is better then in the US. I suspect that any difference in life expectancy has more to do with the unhealthy eating habits in the US.

[Danno100]

It is always easy to find people who are unhappy with any service (private or public). I laugh when the US finds a few disgruntled people to interview on NBC or some other network of a system that has failed them. The system fails everyone to some extent across the world. Bottom line is in a public system, it fails or works for everyone regardless of ability to pay. Being in the upper income level, I can travel anywhere in the world if I want to pay for healthcare, but I have never done so because I do not think the system has failed me. I can get an MRI if needed in a few days, If I needed bypass surgery, the wait time is measured in days unless it an emergency, then it would be hours.

I actually work in the environment and know people who work in the US system. It is strange that from what I understand the average physician income is higher in Canada than the US. We have very few physicians who flee to the US to make more money. Perhaps it is the exchange rate, but I suspect it is also the freedom to practice in the best interest of the patient, rather than to the private hospital who are driven by insurance payments schemes that are quite restrictive. And yes, we have hundreds of physicians in this province that make over $1 million a year, and some over $2 million. Not a terrible system from their perspective.

On the eating habits, I agree. Super size me!

[lithium630]

I would be interested to see the difference in unemployment in Canada and the US. By unemployment I do not mean the unemployment rate which is constantly manipulated. I mean the total number of people unable or unwilling to work. Half of the US population pays zero federal tax. Is it the same in Canada?

[Danno100]

I think the unemployment rate in the US is a bit higher than Canada in recent years. I don't know about the folks who have stopped looking. Certainly the majority of folks here pay income tax. We have a good regulated banking system and don't have any housing price crisis. Our federal debt per capita is the lowest of G7 countries.

Here is another sad story about public/private systems.

In Detroit, Michigan (perhaps not a good example) you have a city in disrepair, financially bankrupt, with one of the highest crime rates in the world. A billionaire owns the bridge connecting our two great countries, and he has been to jail for obstructing road construction. He advertises on TV to lobby the public against a new bridge. He pays politicians millions to lobby against a new federally run bridge that Canada is willing to finance from tolls (not a cent paid by the state of Michigan). He wants to change the Michigan constitution to stop a new bridge being built.

Don't get me wrong, I like the US, I have family living there.

[lithium630]

With so many leaches I don't think that system could possibly work here. I miss the old exchange rate. I spent a lot of time in Montreal from 18-20 years old (for some unknown reason.. ahem..) At the time $1 US was about $1.50 in Canada. Times have definitely changed. Not that it matters, with a wife and four kids it's hard to justify trips to St Catherine's St.

[barnabas1969]

From what I've read about Canada's healthcare system, the wait time is only high for elective surgeries. From the reports I've read, the Canadian system works just fine.

And, other than Medicare Part D (prescription drugs), Medicare is run more efficiently than a private insurance company. Don't tell me that it costs 7-9 times as much. That's just BS.

I totally agree that our system is broken because of the money in politics. It's time for that to change, but I don't have much hope that it will change.

[lithium630]

I didn't compare Medicare to private companies. What I said was that virtually EVERY government program costs 7-9 times what it was estimated at. So when Obama says his Obamacare costs 1 trillion dollars, it will likely cost 7 to 9 trillion dollars. It's not a fair comparison anyway since the government makes mandates that private companies can not.

[kingwr]

Barnabas, there are busses, planes, and trains to Canada available!

By the way, our Founding Fathers did not create a progressive tax system. That came in 1913 with the income tax.

Also, those who have insurance but don't believe in the individual mandate in the ACA understand that the freedom to contract (or not to contract) has been a long standing right of Americans under our Constitution. Not everybody is in it for their own self interests, as you suggest. Some of us, including classic liberals like myself, stand on principal.

[STC]

I am going to have a meeting tomorrow with the crew to discuss charging our members and visitors a tax for frequenting and contributing to this thread.

[holidayboy]

Of course you realise STC, any revenue that we raise by having a 'tgb tax' will end up having to be taxed

[mark1234]

It's amazing where a comment about the BBC's Olympic coverage can lead...

[Danno100]

With so many leaches I don't think that system could possibly work here. I miss the old exchange rate. I spent a lot of time in Montreal from 18-20 years old (for some unknown reason.. ahem..) At the time $1 US was about $1.50 in Canada. Times have definitely changed. Not that it matters, with a wife and four kids it's hard to justify trips to St Catherine's St.

I grew up in Montreal. It is afun city with beautiful women. The people there have a European attitude to life, work and play hard. Certainly a fun place to grow up. Oh the days and nights ........