Cooling InfiniTV Tuners - Large solid heatsink?

[barnabas1969]

@tomtoth: First, my case draws cool air in from the front (click the link in my signature to see my specs)... the intake vents are under the front edge of the case. The rear fans draw air out the rear. There are also two side intake vents though... and these would simply draw in hot air in your situation.

The solution is pretty simple... cut a big hole in the back of your entertainment center. I know it's hard to convince the wife that it's OK for you to cut up the furniture... I've been there... so do it while she's out for the day. She'll never notice once all the components are back in the cabinet.

Years ago, my wife just had to have this entertainment center that had absolutely NO ventilation for the audio components. It had glass front doors, glass shelves, and mirrors that covered the entire rear wall of the cabinets. I had to cut the mirror in the cabinet that contained all of the audio components and make a new wooden frame for the shorter mirror so that my audio components would A) fit in the cabinet, and B) get cool air.

I'm not a fan (pun intended) of putting fans in cabinets. Many cabinets have thin wooden rear walls, and the vibration from the fans gets amplified by that thin wood. You're better off just cutting a big hole in the back wall. If you make the hole about the same size as the HTPC, you won't be able to see the hole once the cabinet is in place with the HTPC on the shelf. Just make sure to leave 3 or 4 inches of space between the cabinet and the wall behind it for adequate ventilation.

[erkotz]

I have one of these. An Ahanix D-Vine 4. They don't make them any more but you can still find them around. I retro fitted the same nMedia display to it that you have. Brushed aluminum front plate.

I have the same case (well, silver) - it's such a crappy case. Between the build quality, and the (lack of) airflow, plus the design for things like the lid and HD hanger. Not to mention it cost a fortune new.

I can not fathom why the metal plate is where it is, and if it serves a real purpose.

It is presumably an RF (radio frequency) shield. Its purpose is to prevent the RF radiated by all of the other components within the case being picked up by the tuners, and potentially causing interference.

RF shield that makes sense. Though I wonder if it was removed.. if it would make that much of a difference?

It is an RF shield. In most cases, you are unlikely to notice a difference in real-world operation without it (a few of the prototypes I have in my house don't have it). I still think you guys may be approaching this wrong - as long as there's some airflow inside the PC case (specifically, in the area of the cards. I'm not saying you need a wind turbine, but a light breeze), and your PC's internal temp isn't excessive, you should be fine.

[tomtoth]

It is an RF shield. In most cases, you are unlikely to notice a difference in real-world operation without it (a few of the prototypes I have in my house don't have it). I still think you guys may be approaching this wrong - as long as there's some airflow inside the PC case (specifically, in the area of the cards. I'm not saying you need a wind turbine, but a light breeze), and your PC's internal temp isn't excessive, you should be fine.

Having an attached heatsink with sufficient air flow can only cause lower tuner card temps..... Right?

I've bought some new fans/grills/grates to try some new things. I actually had already cut the back of the entertainment center out to fit an Old Sony 100disk cd carousel a few years back. I'm sure my trouble is the fact there are no front mounted fans. Side mounted don't help with they are 1/8" from the cabinet side. So I will try repositioning it, or try cutting a front intake for a 92mm fan.. Perhaps some better rear cable management to have better airflow.

[STC]

I have the same case (well, silver) - it's such a crappy case. Between the build quality, and the (lack of) airflow, plus the design for things like the lid and HD hanger. Not to mention it cost a fortune new.

It certainly needed a bit of TLC when I bought it to keep things cool inside, but since tweaking I have no issues at all with 4 tuners, commercial skip etc running at once. I also think the build quality was excellent, so not sure where you're at saying that. A nice fat slab of 1/4" brushed aluminum for a front plate.

The slot exhaust blower running through a rheostat is the thing that really helped get rid of heat. TBH I'm sure I would have used the same approach for any HTPC case I may have bought.I can't hear the HTPC at all. Perfectly silent from the viewing/listening position.

[STC]

I still think you guys may be approaching this wrong - as long as there's some airflow inside the PC case (specifically, in the area of the cards. I'm not saying you need a wind turbine, but a light breeze), and your PC's internal temp isn't excessive, you should be fine.

erkotz, did you look at the ops pics? He's got fans blowing out of his behind in that thing!
It must mean that the location of the HTPC is in a very warm place and that is the thing that needs to be addressed.

[erkotz]

I still think you guys may be approaching this wrong - as long as there's some airflow inside the PC case (specifically, in the area of the cards. I'm not saying you need a wind turbine, but a light breeze), and your PC's internal temp isn't excessive, you should be fine.

erkotz, did you look at the ops pics? He's got fans blowing out of his behind in that thing!
It must mean that the location of the HTPC is in a very warm place and that is the thing that needs to be addressed.

I probably didn't word my statement as clearly as I could have - I've seen a lot of homebrew PCs where there are ton of fans, but due to cables, fan placement, case design, etc, there are actually some areas with little to no airflow.

[STC]

^^ I see 2x 60mm chassis fans expelling air (you can tell the way the fans are mounted) and 1x 120mm fan sitting on top of the Cetons. There has to be enough air circulating around the tuners I would think?

[newfiend]

^^ I see 2x 60mm chassis fans expelling air (you can tell the way the fans are mounted) and 1x 120mm fan sitting on top of the Cetons. There has to be enough air circulating around the tuners I would think?

I’m not sure how much air 2x 60mm fans move. There is heat coming off 2 Ceton’s, a Intel NIC, and a Video Card all stacked together, + CPU and RAM.. he needs to find a way to move more hot air out of the case and out of the entertainment center (cabinet) he has it stuffed into.. Both the PC and Entertainment Center (cabinet) need better venting IMO. Or maybe he should look into a newer cabinet for the PC that is more open or has better venting. I now have Two Ceton’s (PCIe) and a GT430 in my slots and I had the GT430 in the top PCIe slot until I noticed that the heat sink on the Video Card was getting pretty warm... I moved it to a lower PCIe slot so the heat sink was open to better airflow and that fixed it getting so warm...

Question to the OP... If you leave the top off the PC case for a night and let all the heat rise up and out of the case what do your Tuner Temps look like? Then what are they with the Lid (top) on the case? Compare the two and see what's cooler.. I am sure you should see a temp drop with it off of course but if all that heat is trapped in the cabinet still the temps could still be up there... I would be interested to know what you find out with lid on and off and cabinet front open and closed... That should tell you where you need to concentrate to help remove the excess heat from the scenario.
newfiend~

[barnabas1969]

Having an attached heatsink with sufficient air flow can only cause lower tuner card temps..... Right?

I've bought some new fans/grills/grates to try some new things. I actually had already cut the back of the entertainment center out to fit an Old Sony 100disk cd carousel a few years back. I'm sure my trouble is the fact there are no front mounted fans. Side mounted don't help with they are 1/8" from the cabinet side. So I will try repositioning it, or try cutting a front intake for a 92mm fan.. Perhaps some better rear cable management to have better airflow.

If you have sufficient air flow, you won't need the heat sinks.

Even with my case, I had to make some minor modifications (using simple cardboard) so that the air in the case flows from the intakes and goes past the components that need the cooling most. Without my little mods, the air was flowing directly from the intake to the exhaust without passing over the heat sinks where it was needed most. A couple of cardboard baffles solved the problem.

Before the baffles were installed, I could feel cool air coming out of one of the exhaust fans. After the baffles were installed, both exhaust fans put out warm air.

If your entertainment center already has a large hole for the warm air to escape, thus preventing it from being drawn back into the intake fans, you might want to consider something similar.

[tomtoth]

Question to the OP... If you leave the top off the PC case for a night and let all the heat rise up and out of the case what do your Tuner Temps look like? Then what are they with the Lid (top) on the case? Compare the two and see what's cooler.. I am sure you should see a temp drop with it off of course but if all that heat is trapped in the cabinet still the temps could still be up there... I would be interested to know what you find out with lid on and off and cabinet front open and closed... That should tell you where you need to concentrate to help remove the excess heat from the scenario.
newfiend~

Oddly enough, the temp difference isn't that much cooler with the top off.

If you have sufficient air flow, you won't need the heat sinks.

Sufficient airflow.. airflow vs noise. One Ceton was ok, 2 cetons back to back with videocard not ok. I figured that heatsinks can't hurt.. But you have convinced me to look into better placement of computer case to promote better cross ventilation, which probably means new entertainment center..

I see 2x 60mm chassis fans expelling air (you can tell the way the fans are mounted) and 1x 120mm fan sitting on top of the Cetons. There has to be enough air circulating around the tuners I would think?

I would have thought so too... I'm keeping at bay with the 92mm above the ceton's @ 5k RPM. I think I'm pushing warm air from above(from the other mobo components heat rising) back into case..

New toys are here this week, I will report back with what I find.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far!

[barnabas1969]

Sufficient airflow.. airflow vs noise. One Ceton was ok, 2 cetons back to back with videocard not ok. I figured that heatsinks can't hurt.. But you have convinced me to look into better placement of computer case to promote better cross ventilation, which probably means new entertainment center..

Mine is inaudible from more than about 3 feet (1 meter) away from the PC. My CPU fan never runs faster than about 700RPM, and my case fans stay around 1200RPM. The DVR from the cable company made more noise than my HTPC does.

Before you do anything drastic, try taking your PC out of the entertainment center. If this solves the problem, then you know that you need to focus on venting the heat out of the entertainment center. If not, then you have a different problem. Cross ventilation is very important, but so is the route that the air takes as it travels through the computer case. Ideally, you want the cool air to be drawn in from the lowest point, and vented from the highest point.

Based on the pictures I've seen of your case, I believe that it's possible that your case has TOO MANY vents... and this prevents the fans from effectively pulling the air across the hot components. You could try selectively blocking some of the vents to force the air to be drawn from a cool intake then across the tuners, video card, and CPU cooler... and finally out the back of the case. Your case has so many holes in it that the exhaust fans are probably drawing air from a nearby location instead of drawing it across the components that matter.

[barnabas1969]

As I wrote above, first check to see if moving the PC out of the entertainment center fixes the problem. If not, then please read below...

I looked at detailed pictures of your case. Here are my observations:

1) The vents on the right side of the lid (when looking from the front... the ones that are on the same side of the case as the ODD and PSU) seem to be overkill. If your PSU has a top fan, it needs to draw air through those vents that are directly over the PSU fan. The rest of the vents on that side of the case can be covered up.

2) The vent on the lid that is directly over the CPU... this vent should be ducted so that the CPU cooler draws air from outside. You can do this with a cardboard mailing tube, or make one from some cardboard you have laying around. If you don't duct this vent to the CPU, then it is just drawing cool air in.... only to be vented directly out the rear fans. Just make sure that there is at least 1 inch of clearance above this vent when you put the PC in the entertainment center.

3) The intake fan on the left side (when looking from the front, near the big knob on the front), needs to be INTAKE... not exhaust. Make sure it is pulling air from outside to inside... and make sure that there is about a 1-inch clearance near this intake.

4) The rear fans should be blowing OUT (exhaust).

5) The other vents on the lid, on the left side (when looking from the front) are probably not necessary, and are probably causing you problems. Try covering them.

As a temporary solution/test, try covering the vents I mentioned above using tape and paper.

[newfiend]

Ya know.. There is always this solution... http://www.antec.com/product.php?id=704&pid=1
No walls to trap any heat although you may have to clean it with air every so often depending on how dusty an environment it's in.

Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express

[mmatheny]

OK - I got an nMedia HTPC6000B case week ago, new MB (http://www.msi.com/product/mb/890FXA-GD65.html) that has 4 PCi-e x1 slots and 2 PCI-e x16 slots and a PCI slot. Full ATX. LOTS of room between cards. Video card on far left slot, 1st Ceton on 2nd from left PCI-e x1 slot, 2nd Ceton in far right PCi-e x1 slot. Everything runs very COOL, EXCEPT the Cetons! One Ceton runs about 54, other one runs about 60-65. I am adding another 120mm fan to the right of the case, and added another fan to the opening in the middle of the top. Still too hot. I ordered 2 ea 1.5" square Peltier cooler pads, and have some small 1.5" square heat sinks with small fans on them, and some double sided thermal tape on order. Anyone thought of or tried this solution? If it works as expected I can remove the extra fans to keep noise down.

[newfiend]

OK - I got an nMedia HTPC6000B case week ago, new MB (http://www.msi.com/product/mb/890FXA-GD65.html) that has 4 PCi-e x1 slots and 2 PCI-e x16 slots and a PCI slot. Full ATX. LOTS of room between cards. Video card on far left slot, 1st Ceton on 2nd from left PCI-e x1 slot, 2nd Ceton in far right PCi-e x1 slot. Everything runs very COOL, EXCEPT the Cetons! One Ceton runs about 54, other one runs about 60-65. I am adding another 120mm fan to the right of the case, and added another fan to the opening in the middle of the top. Still too hot. I ordered 2 ea 1.5" square Peltier cooler pads, and have some small 1.5" square heat sinks with small fans on them, and some double sided thermal tape on order. Anyone thought of or tried this solution? If it works as expected I can remove the extra fans to keep noise down.

You can always do what this guy did....

I'm your biggest FAN..Get it? Fan..Ahahah.

[barnabas1969]

When I had an InfinniTV, it ran in the low to mid 50's. That's fine. 65C is the max, so if you're pushing 65... you have an air flow problem.

The InfiniTV does not need heat sinks. In fact, when I tried them, they made zero difference in the temp of the tuners.

You don't need heat sinks... you need air flowing over the card.

[mmatheny]

OK - added a couple of fans and took out some disk mounts I didn't need and now the temps are in the low-mid 50s. Curt, LOVED your pic! What gets me is why would a dedicated HTPC case have such poor air flow right off the bat!

[barnabas1969]

OK - added a couple of fans and took out some disk mounts I didn't need and now the temps are in the low-mid 50s. Curt, LOVED your pic! What gets me is why would a dedicated HTPC case have such poor air flow right off the bat!

I had to make a few minor mods to my case so that the air flow is directed in the right places. Basically, I just made some cardboard baffles that prevent the air from "short circuiting". You want the air to flow over the hot/warm parts that need cooling. In many cases, there is plenty of air flowing through the case, but the air isn't passing over the hot parts... so it doesn't cool them.

Before I installed the cardboard, one of the two rear fans on my case was blowing cool air out the back... because it was sucking it in directly from a vent on the side of the case. That air was never picking up any heat... so I put a cardboard "duct" of sorts to force the air coming in through the vent to pass over the CPU fan's intake.