Guide Updates - Accuracy Issues

[STC]

Gah.... Lots of guide errors tonight for me. Its definitely been getting worse recently.
Zap2it is accurate, my MC guide is todged!

[richard1980]

I previously posted in one of these forums about having a fear that this issue was causing episodes to not be recorded, and I confirmed it tonight. The new episode of Mythbusters that aired tonight did not record....it wasn't even in the guide. But of course, there are a bunch of "fake" episodes of Mythbusters scheduled to record....I recorded 4 of them earlier today.

And of course, Zap2it's website shows the correct info now, but it wasn't correct when this version of the guide was the current version. Thanks Zap2it!

[adam1991]

oh, yeah, no kidding. MB has been recording all day--but when it came to 9:00pm, all I got was what MC called "Driving in Heels" from 9:00 to 9:09. And, of course, it was actually the new one, not "Driving in Heels".

Fortunately, my schedule is catching the usual Discovery re-run of the new one at 11pm as we speak--"Revenge of the Myth".

Didn't I just see a post here from someone who has set up a new system and the WAF is extremely low due to circumstances exactly like this? Schedule all wrong, weird snippets of recordings, etc.?

[richard1980]

On my system, WMC didn't have the correct data in either time slot, so I just manually recorded the 2nd time slot.

[Venom51]

ROVI actually own the EPG guide patent and has spent a great deal of time suing everyone and his brother over it. That included our company as well. Zap2IT is owned by Tribune media and for 25 bucks you are getting a product that is designed to not compete with the multi thousand dollar a year Tribune media services. My guess is that when Media Center originally rolled out it was powered by Tribune media services and not Zap2IT. However due to lack of usage Microsoft probably at some point flipped over to the much cheaper Zap2IT services. What we really need is the ability to increases the fequency of the guide updates. Not just schedule them to the limited 6 hour windows dictated by Media Center.

[barnabas1969]

oh, yeah, no kidding. MB has been recording all day--but when it came to 9:00pm, all I got was what MC called "Driving in Heels" from 9:00 to 9:09. And, of course, it was actually the new one, not "Driving in Heels".

Fortunately, my schedule is catching the usual Discovery re-run of the new one at 11pm as we speak--"Revenge of the Myth".

Didn't I just see a post here from someone who has set up a new system and the WAF is extremely low due to circumstances exactly like this? Schedule all wrong, weird snippets of recordings, etc.?

Interesting. Mine picked up a show at 9pm that was titled Myth Busters - Driving in Heels. I watched an episode last night... it was about fan requests... they blew up a few water heaters (made a cannon out of one of them). It didn't have anything about driving with heels in it. I just checked... and the one I deleted is the one that was recorded at 9pm (supposedly the one about driving in heels). I thought I deleted the one I watched... maybe I selected the wrong one when I deleted it? If the one about driving in heels was supposed to air at 9pm, it seems that I recorded the right one... and accidentally deleted the wrong one.

[barnabas1969]

ROVI actually own the EPG guide patent and has spent a great deal of time suing everyone and his brother over it. That included our company as well. Zap2IT is owned by Tribune media and for 25 bucks you are getting a product that is designed to not compete with the multi thousand dollar a year Tribune media services. My guess is that when Media Center originally rolled out it was powered by Tribune media services and not Zap2IT. However due to lack of usage Microsoft probably at some point flipped over to the much cheaper Zap2IT services. What we really need is the ability to increases the fequency of the guide updates. Not just schedule them to the limited 6 hour windows dictated by Media Center.

Venom, as mentioned earlier about adding "triggers" for the MCUpdate task... do you think it might help to add triggers to make it update more frequently?

[richard1980]

It won't help. WMC downloads the EPG from Microsoft, not Zap2it. So you can update as often as you want, but you won't get a new version of the EPG until Microsoft posts it to the server that WMC connects to. Now that's not to say that you won't get it a few hours ahead of when you would have normally gotten it, but I don't really consider that helpful. I would consider Microsoft posting new versions as fast as Zap2it rolls them out to be helpful. Or the best thing that would be helpful is to fire Zap2it and hire someone that can provide accurate listings in a timely manner.

Venom, what $25 are you talking about? The $25 for SchedulesDirect?

[Venom51]

It won't help. WMC downloads the EPG from Microsoft, not Zap2it. So you can update as often as you want, but you won't get a new version of the EPG until Microsoft posts it to the server that WMC connects to. Now that's not to say that you won't get it a few hours ahead of when you would have normally gotten it, but I don't really consider that helpful. I would consider Microsoft posting new versions as fast as Zap2it rolls them out to be helpful. Or the best thing that would be helpful is to fire Zap2it and hire someone that can provide accurate listings in a timely manner.

Venom, what $25 are you talking about? The $25 for SchedulesDirect?

Unfortunately yes I am.

[Venom51]

Venom, as mentioned earlier about adding "triggers" for the MCUpdate task... do you think it might help to add triggers to make it update more frequently?

If Microsoft is in the middle as Richard stated than no it won't if they aren't updating it as often as the changes are being made.

It won't help. WMC downloads the EPG from Microsoft, not Zap2it. So you can update as often as you want, but you won't get a new version of the EPG until Microsoft posts it to the server that WMC connects to. Now that's not to say that you won't get it a few hours ahead of when you would have normally gotten it, but I don't really consider that helpful. I would consider Microsoft posting new versions as fast as Zap2it rolls them out to be helpful. Or the best thing that would be helpful is to fire Zap2it and hire someone that can provide accurate listings in a timely manner.

Venom, what $25 are you talking about? The $25 for SchedulesDirect?

Yeah..I am. I forgot those guys are an open source option and I'm not sure where their data is coming from.

I read somewhere that the company that is now called Zap2It actually invented the EPG. Back when you had a channel that scrolled the guide listings all day long (before Interactive EPG's existed)... it was powered by Zap2It.

Gemstar is the name you are looking for..which is now ROVI since Gemstar is the name accosicated with all the lawsuits.

[barnabas1969]

Gemstar is the name you are looking for..which is now ROVI since Gemstar is the name accosicated with all the lawsuits.

Thanks. My memory isn't what it once was. Now that you mention it, I had a TV once that had a Gemstar guide built-in. I never used it because I had a DVR. That TV ran on Windows CE. It would actually get a BSOD every couple of weeks if the Ethernet cable was plugged in (even while watching TV!). Can you imagine watching TV, and the TV gets a BSOD? The browser in it sucked, so I just unplugged the Ethernet connector.

[Venom51]

Gemstar is the name you are looking for..which is now ROVI since Gemstar is the name accosicated with all the lawsuits.

Thanks. My memory isn't what it once was. Now that you mention it, I had a TV once that had a Gemstar guide built-in. I never used it because I had a DVR. That TV ran on Windows CE. It would actually get a BSOD every couple of weeks if the Ethernet cable was plugged in (even while watching TV!). Can you imagine watching TV, and the TV gets a BSOD? The browser in it sucked, so I just unplugged the Ethernet connector.

Well in the early days of the All in Wonder card running under Win98...yes...yes I can.

[richard1980]

Interesting. Mine picked up a show at 9pm that was titled Myth Busters - Driving in Heels. I watched an episode last night... it was about fan requests... they blew up a few water heaters (made a cannon out of one of them). It didn't have anything about driving with heels in it. I just checked... and the one I deleted is the one that was recorded at 9pm (supposedly the one about driving in heels). I thought I deleted the one I watched... maybe I selected the wrong one when I deleted it? If the one about driving in heels was supposed to air at 9pm, it seems that I recorded the right one... and accidentally deleted the wrong one.

Sorry I missed this earlier. Last week's episode was about driving in heels. This week's episode was a fans request revisit of older myths...notably the water heater cannon and rocket man. The problem is Zap2it's listings showed this week's episode as Driving in Heels, which isn't correct. The correct listing was Revenge of the Myth.

Venom, someone said Schedules Direct gets their data from Zap2it, but that is not correct. Schedules Direct was specifically designed to replace Zap2it after Zap2it's DataDirect service stopped providing EPG data to MythTV.

Here's something interesting you guys might like to know: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Data_Direct# ... ata_Issues

Code: Select all

April 2007 Data Issues

In April 2007, many users reported that DataDirect was reporting generic episode information for some channels. For example, the description of The Colbert Report became "Stephen Colbert and guests discuss current issues" for all episodes. 

Some user responses could have been legitimately seen as hostile. See [mythtv-users]Data Direct "service", which also alleges several thread deletions and at least one banning. 

The only known official response is at http://bb.labs.zap2it.com/viewtopic.php?t=1209 : "We are aware of this and are working to fix it." The thread was locked after this posting. 

The underlying reasons for this problem are currently unknown. Zap2it forum moderators have demonstrated rapid banning of discussions and users, which suggests sensitivity to this issue; however, official response is almost nil. One explanation could be that zap2it has contractual or internal political issues that they feel they cannot comment on. 

[richard1980]

Venom, as mentioned earlier about adding "triggers" for the MCUpdate task... do you think it might help to add triggers to make it update more frequently?

If Microsoft is in the middle as Richard stated than no it won't if they aren't updating it as often as the changes are being made.

Yeah, I can confirm it is...block outbound traffic to Microsoft's IP range and then try to download the EPG...it won't work. That's the same method I used to confirm that cover art for Movie Guide is downloaded from Microsoft as well.

[newfiend]

So since the guide data sent to MS server isn't getting updated frequently enough to catch all the correct info.. should we contact erkotz and see if he can have someone at MS update the frequency of guide updates from Zap2it? I am not sure how much poking into this situation he can do..?
newfiend~

[STC]

^ Judging by the way we are all reporting different update patterns, I can only assume it isn't one big 'job lot' that MS grabs from Zap2it periodically, or if it is, MS are not making it all available quick enough to the end user. I think it's a way more complex task then we assume, and they haven't got the new migrated setup working properly (yet...if ever...).

I suppose it also depends on what sort of agreement for data hand over MS have with Zap2it.

[Ack]

Venom, someone said Schedules Direct gets their data from Zap2it, but that is not correct. Schedules Direct was specifically designed to replace Zap2it after Zap2it's DataDirect service stopped providing EPG data to MythTV.

That was me. I made that presumption from the Zap2It logo on their page where I set up my listings. I see in their FAQ they say that they use Data Direct. Sorry for the mis-information.

As a side note the one show I had time to follow up on yesterday was wrong on my SD listings too.

[richard1980]

Sorry, I should have been more clear in my previous post. You weren't completely wrong, just a small detail. The way I understand it, the flow of data used to work like this:

Tribune (provider) -> Zap2it (intermediary owned by Tribune) -> DataDirect (service) -> MythTV (end user)

Then Zap2it decided they weren't going to provide listings to end users anymore. So an intermediary had to be created. It also appears that DataDirect moved from Zap2it to Tribune. Now it works like this:

Tribune (provider) -> DataDirect (service) -> SchedulesDirect (3rd party intermediary) -> MythTV (end user)

So now Zap2it is out of the chain, but ultimately the listings are still coming from Tribune. But the real question is, which entity is responsible for the incorrect listings? Is it Tribune, or is it Zap2it?

Of course, I could be wrong about DataDirect moving from Zap2it to Tribune. Maybe it's still part of Zap2it? It doesn't look like it since Tribune has their own website set up for it and the Zap2it website doesn't mention it.

[Venom51]

Sorry, I should have been more clear in my previous post. You weren't completely wrong, just a small detail. The way I understand it, the flow of data used to work like this:

Tribune (provider) -> Zap2it (intermediary owned by Tribune) -> DataDirect (service) -> MythTV (end user)

Then Zap2it decided they weren't going to provide listings to end users anymore. So an intermediary had to be created. It also appears that DataDirect moved from Zap2it to Tribune. Now it works like this:

Tribune (provider) -> DataDirect (service) -> SchedulesDirect (3rd party intermediary) -> MythTV (end user)

So now Zap2it is out of the chain, but ultimately the listings are still coming from Tribune. But the real question is, which entity is responsible for the incorrect listings? Is it Tribune, or is it Zap2it?

Of course, I could be wrong about DataDirect moving from Zap2it to Tribune. Maybe it's still part of Zap2it? It doesn't look like it since Tribune has their own website set up for it and the Zap2it website doesn't mention it.

The Tribune site does have Zap2it information.

[richard1980]

I was talking about the Tribune DataDirect website (http://tmsdatadirect.com/), not the main Tribune website. I'm not seeing any references to Zap2it on that website, nor am I seeing any references to DataDirect on Zap2it's website.