WMC to be separate add-on in W8

[adam1991]

just thought of something... what if a brave few of us PAID for Pro + media pack and coordinated to all call MS support for the 29/59 issue. Think MS would fix it then if we all asked for refunds on Pro + Media pack or would they just refund our money?

IIRC, Ceton determined that the issue lies with MS EVR.

Any problems that the end user sees because of the 29/59 issue do not arise from Media Center at all, and Media Center has no responsibility to do anything other than what it's told inside the digital bits.

It's time to put this issue to bed right now, and to stop calling it "the 29/59 bug". It's not a bug with respect to MS or Media Center, period. That is an old wives' tale that resulted from people yelling loudly and putting the initial story on page 1 (because it makes for good MS bashing), but the factual investigation on page 23 where nobody bothers to see it or pay attention. And in the end, MS pays the price for something that has NOTHING to do with them.

If you want to scream at someone and demand your money back, may I present you with the phone numbers to your local cable company and the networks they re-sell. Oh--but you know that going after the actual SOURCE of the issue would be fruitless, so you join in the ignorati and yell for MS's head on a platter because it sounds better and makes you feel good.

Fact: there is no "bug" inside WMC with respect to the 29/59 issue. Get that through your head, and stop blaming MS for every problem in the world up to and including ear mites.

[adam1991]

Does no one besides me think this is a ongoing long term strategy by MS to not "kill" Media Center, but to hand it off to Ceton and the APP store?

Nope. I've thought that from the very beginning.

It's a fact that when you give something away, people assign zero value to it. Charge twenty bucks, and suddenly they pay attention and place value on it.

If you put it inside the app store, which people are now used to, they will see it and think it must be worth something.

I guarantee you, this model will generate a lot of comments from people who right now have never heard of MC and who don't know what it is. You'll hear a lot of "did you see the new thing MS came out with in their app store? Media Center! It records TV! It organizes your movies!! This is so cool!"

We here will have to remember not to ridicule those people. That's just how the world works.

[StumpyBloke]

"Show Microsoft the money"? I'm not a charity and Microsoft is a business. I'm not giving MS additional money to provide me with the level of service and broken functionality I have now. (No cover art, 29/59Hz bug,..

OK, now, hold on.

Microsoft has exactly ZERO to do with what you are erroneously calling the "29/59 bug". However, you perpetuate this myth that "it's all MS's fault."

I'm sick and tired of the ignorance and lack of facts that's been bandied about in this and other Win8 threads. MC today isn't "broken" with respect to any "29/59 bug", so it's time that we as an institution of MC knowledge take it upon ourselves to strike down and stop the perpetuation of this kind of silliness.

If you want to rant, go ahead--but don't start slinging ignorance around just because you're looking for some reason to attack MS and are willing to make things up out of thin air to do it. I'd like to think that this place is above that kind of behavior.

Is it any wonder that MS would ignore MC if they continue to take heat for circumstances that have nothing to do with MC? What's next--blaming MS and MC because your dog died?

Calm down man!!

[adam1991]

"Show Microsoft the money"? I'm not a charity and Microsoft is a business. I'm not giving MS additional money to provide me with the level of service and broken functionality I have now. (No cover art, 29/59Hz bug,..

OK, now, hold on.

Microsoft has exactly ZERO to do with what you are erroneously calling the "29/59 bug". However, you perpetuate this myth that "it's all MS's fault."

I'm sick and tired of the ignorance and lack of facts that's been bandied about in this and other Win8 threads. MC today isn't "broken" with respect to any "29/59 bug", so it's time that we as an institution of MC knowledge take it upon ourselves to strike down and stop the perpetuation of this kind of silliness.

If you want to rant, go ahead--but don't start slinging ignorance around just because you're looking for some reason to attack MS and are willing to make things up out of thin air to do it. I'd like to think that this place is above that kind of behavior.

Is it any wonder that MS would ignore MC if they continue to take heat for circumstances that have nothing to do with MC? What's next--blaming MS and MC because your dog died?

Calm down man!!

Sorry, but I'm sick and tired of this forum being used to continue to spread such ignorance and misinformation on a technical point that is undisputable.

That's not what this forum is about, and yet those who want to whine about how they hate MS and Win8 continue to use that bit of total ignorance as part of their platform and spread it like a noxious weed.

[StumpyBloke]

Not disagreeing with you re: the misinformation, but neither is this forum about ANYONE getting shirty/aggressive etc with other members. All I can suggest is, if you don’t like what someone is saying, you have a choice...ignore it, or constructively correct them. And this isn't directed just to you...it’s directed to each and everyone of us.

Forums, by their very nature, will have a share of utter misguided rubbish and that’s just something we have to live with and try to address in a positive manner where possible. There will also be cases, like the 29/59bug, where no matter how loud you shout, people will continue to think it’s down to the wrong person, Microsoft in this case.

Anyways, back OT.

Oh, and are you sure it's not Microsofts fault????

[richard1980]

I was reading the zdnet comments, and someone makes an interesting point- maybe they are only mentioning Media Center in Windows 8 Pro to make the distinction that it is not going to be available in the pro edition normally, but it will still be in the base windows 8, as it has been in the past?

Maybe this is just using wishful thinking on my part, but it would very similarly emulate Windows Vista, where the Home Premium version had Media Center, and the Business version did not have media center. The only different being that if you did have the more expensive professional version to begin with, then you could still buy media center for it.

That was how I read it, while at the same time recognizing that the press release was so poorly worded they could have meant virtually anything.

So, we're back to "Windows 8 hasn't been released, and we really don't know anything today".

"If you are an enthusiast...you will want Windows 8 Pro."

We are enthusiasts. We will want Windows 8 Pro. Why? Because that's the only way to get WMC.

[richard1980]

Oh, and are you sure it's not Microsofts fault????

I am 100% positive that the 29/59 "bug" is not Microsoft's fault. Adam is correct on this. Ceton may have discovered an error in the EVR, or maybe Carl misinterpreted something Ceton said. I don't know. But I can assure you, even if there is an error with the EVR, fixing that error isn't going to magically fix the content. As long as the content continues to have the wrong information embedded in it, there will always be a problem.

[StumpyBloke]

Oh, and are you sure it's not Microsofts fault????

I am 100% positive that the 29/59 "bug" is not Microsoft's fault. Adam is correct on this. Ceton may have discovered an error in the EVR, or maybe Carl misinterpreted something Ceton said. I don't know. But I can assure you, even if there is an error with the EVR, fixing that error isn't going to magically fix the content. As long as the content continues to have the wrong information embedded in it, there will always be a problem.

Richard, I was absolutely, 100%, definately, unequivocally joking!! Hence the two smilies at the end of my comment/question!

[JonDeutsch]

My editorial on the topic is posted!

http://thedigitalmediazone.com/2012/04/ ... -500738649

[gcoupe]

"If you are an enthusiast...you will want Windows 8 Pro."

We are enthusiasts. We will want Windows 8 Pro. Why? Because that's the only way to get WMC.

Er, I'm an enthusiast, but I don't want/need Windows 8 Pro, so I'll be sticking with WMC on Win7 until I find a suitable alternative.

[mcewinter]

My editorial on the topic is posted!

http://thedigitalmediazone.com/2012/04/ ... -500738649

I agree with you 100%

[jamawass]

Anandtech states that mediacenter will be included in the Win 8 standard but not the Pro version. The press release specifically states it's omission in the Pro version too. Currently I run my htpc on windows home premium so the win 8 version should technically be the same feature set just faster and with storage volumes.
Secondly if this means better support including things like mkv and better internet streaming I wouldn't mind paying for it.

[mark1234]

My editorial on the topic is posted!

http://thedigitalmediazone.com/2012/04/ ... -500738649

Microsoft is not a charity. It has to work for my money. In history it has worked for my money and has been rewarded with two Windows licences (XP MCE2005 and Win7) purchased to run dedicated Media Centre PCs, so I've not been using it for "gratis" as you put it. In history they have also failed to work for my money, so they didn't get a Vista licence out of me for VMC. (Note, this is not an anti-Vista thing. I had Vista running on regular PCs, but for my dedicated Media Centre machine there was no new functionality in VMC over MCE2005, so they didn't deserve my money).

If 8MC doesn't have any relevant features over what I've already paid for with 7MC then, just like with VMC, they won't be getting my money. Regardless of how much I like Media Centre, I'm not spending money to reward inaction.

[carljanderson]

Any problems that the end user sees because of the 29/59 issue do not arise from Media Center at all, and Media Center has no responsibility to do anything other than what it's told inside the digital bits.

It's time to put this issue to bed right now, and to stop calling it "the 29/59 bug".

You know what, I will now call it one of two things to as not to offend you inner soul:

1) The Issue microsoft can probably write a workaround for, but refuses to

or

2) The issue where channels are smart enough to know that Windows Media Center is being used to tune it, and will keep flipping the bit.

Look, the root cause is wrongly encoded frames. We all get that. The issue is NOT apparent with ANY OTHER Cable Box in America. Cisco, Pioneer, and Motorola have developed ways to address this, either in hardware or in code. It is something MS has refused to address, and since the issue isn't apparent with 98% of the viewing population, good luck getting Time Warner (for HBO) to fix it.

Better?

Sorry mods, I had to at least respond to Adam's.

[adam1991]

The issue is not apparent with WMC, either--and to prove it, I invite you to come to my house and watch whatever content you want.

The data are there, but WMC has no problem with it. WMC processes, correctly, what it's given and then passes it on, correctly. And whatever combination of hardware *I* have, or the cableco provides, handles it.

Ergo, the problem is not within WMC.

Sounds like some people want Microsoft, the big bad boy, to take responsibility for fixing every problem that's introduced from any source and which exhibits itself in any potential hardware configuration.

That Microsoft does not do that, does not make it a Microsoft "bug".

[holidayboy]

Let's try to stay on topic folks - and play nicely with each other

[jamawass]

The issue is not apparent with WMC, either--and to prove it, I invite you to come to my house and watch whatever content you want.

The data are there, but WMC has no problem with it. WMC processes, correctly, what it's given and then passes it on, correctly. And whatever combination of hardware *I* have, or the cableco provides, handles it.

Ergo, the problem is not within WMC.

Sounds like some people want Microsoft, the big bad boy, to take responsibility for fixing every problem that's introduced from any source and which exhibits itself in any potential hardware configuration.

That Microsoft does not do that, does not make it a Microsoft "bug".

I haven't noticed it either on Time Warner Cables HBO offerings. I have noticed the difference in picture quality compared to the cable box however. The colors are richer via cable box than in WMC both connected via HDMI through an AVR to a 52 in plasma. Microsoft should address this in Win 8 since I've heard that it's a pixel mapping issue.

[nxsfan]

The issue is not apparent with WMC, either--and to prove it, I invite you to come to my house and watch whatever content you want.

Wonderful! What time/day is best for you and where do you live?

I'll join with everyone else in adding that I would be happy to pay ~$50 for Media Center as an add-on (depending on the feature set). I'm not willing to buy Win 8 Pro though simply to be able to pay more for media center. I also don't want them to bundle it with Win 8 Standard for free - I would like the opportunity to demonstrate to MS that media center could be a financial viable project.

[richard1980]

I've been saying the same thing as Adam for a long time. But some people don't understand the difference between a problem with WMC and a problem with the hardware WMC is running on. All some people see is "I'm seeing a problem while I'm using WMC, so it must be WMC's fault". That is wrong. Don't blame Microsoft because a GPU manufacturer made a bad GPU. Blame the GPU manufacturer. Don't blame Microsoft because a user decided to use a bad GPU. Blame the user. And don't blame Microsoft because content encoders encode the content incorrectly. Blame the encoder. There are plenty of things to blame Microsoft for, but this is not one of them.

And that idea that cable box manufacturers have developed a workaround....that's false. Cable boxes don't have problems for the exact same reason that I don't have problems...they are using a graphics processor that is powerful enough to get the job done. My computer is using a graphics processor that is powerful enough to get the job done. And guess what? I don't have any problems in WMC that don't exist in a cable box (both exhibit signs of incorrect processing because the content is marked wrong, but other than that, I have no issues with the 29/59 content).

There is absolutely no reason to blame Microsoft, and people that continue to blame Microsoft for this issue just show their lack of knowledge or stubbornness. There is plenty of technical data available about this issue, and if you don't understand it, you should ask someone that does understand it. Don't just blame Microsoft for no reason. What's next, are you going to try to install WMC on an 80286 rig and then get mad at Microsoft when it doesn't work?

Sorry for going off topic...this should really be split out from this thread.

[trooper11]

"If you are an enthusiast...you will want Windows 8 Pro."

We are enthusiasts. We will want Windows 8 Pro. Why? Because that's the only way to get WMC.

You could be right, but again, we will only know for sure once MS says its not included in Win 8 standard or that the standalone app will not be offered for Win 8 standard. If there is one thing I have learned when reading these is that often the wording used can be cryptic or open ended, leading to rash assumptions and wild accusations lol. Besides, enthusiast could simply mean the user that wants all the features MS offers, it doesn't have to mean MC alone.

Its only a matter of time before we know for sure.