Is Windows 8 the death of the Windows HTPC?

[trooper11]

But as the reality of W8 sets in, this is what one of the most prolific developers for MCE had to say:

"Redshirt is pretty bang on the MCML programming paradigm is a dead end. The fact that MCML hasn’t been ported to vs2010 is your first clue. The second is this shift away from Media Center to Live TV. For those few developers who are left in the MCML world my advice is to move onto a hobby more worthwhile.

What was the windows 7 marketing campaign? Something about ‘windows 7 was my idea’ well let me tell you windows 8 definitely won’t be your idea!

All welcome the new Calculator app for Windows 8 it’s called Media Center."

http://community.mediabrowser.tv/permal ... wser#34896

It does look like an end of an era. Which, I suppose, is kind of worse than languishing.

Anyway, my bad on the greenbutton mix up.

I don't get how some of you can be so closed minded to other possibilities. While we have a little pity party over the idea of this all coming to an end, why not consider the possibilities.

The quote above illustrates the reality. MCML is dead. Its been dead for a long time and the MB team has suffered through it to make something special. The fact that MS is killing support doesn't have to be the end of anything, nor lead to the conclusion that media center is gone. What it does mean is that now there is a chance at a fresh start, using a more modern and developer friendly base. Media center needed an overhaul to truly keep it going. It needs to be rewritten from the bottom up. That kind of investment from MS just isn't worth it in their eyes. So the next best thing would be phase out the current app (i.e. bring it over to Win8 for those that still want it), while at the same time start working on a new media application in WinRT in order to handle the same tasks. For the MB team, this could be great if it opens them up to easier development for add-ons, improvements, etc.

And in the worst case that MS doesn't create a proper replacement, I would still argue that the MB will have an easier time developing a stand alone app in WinRT then trying to work with MCML as they do now.

[asm495]

If someone gave me a "TV" app in Windows 8 with live and recorded TV which works the same way as Media Center and enabled the Metro interface to be remotely connected to via Extenders (i.e. Xbox 360) then I would be happy.

[tommo]

surely the core code is there, they just need to metro it.

A media pack would be great and worth a pretty penny if it gave you a TV tile.

[asm495]

We know that Metro works over Remote Desktop. We know it should be fairly easy to produce a TV tile. All the service based stuff that makes Media Center work does not need to change. We also know that with RemoteFX Microsoft can send video over Remote Desktop.

Honestly, all that needs to happen to carry on the Media Center experience for me is for the Xbox to be able to connect to the desktop Metro experience and for there to be a TV tile that will send a video stream.

All the technology is there and it needs little work to make it happen. I am very intrigued to see what is going to be in the Media Pack.

[tommo]

Isn;t the problem with the xboxs that if you stray from microsofts media ecosystem e.g. into MKV MP4 territory some things have issues playing?

I'm intrigued about the media pack also, be great if there was blu-ray playback etc Not sure what the balance between development and sales would be but I'd be happy to part with my cash for more media center/metro center™ features.

[itznfb]

Can you spot the pattern?

Windows 98 = Good
Windows ME = Bad
Windows XP = Good
Windows Vista = Bad
Windows 7 = Good
Windows 8 = ???

It's not the end of the world (or WMC or Windows based HTPCs)....just history repeating itself.

While this is true... I do think we are seeing the end of WMC. We are nearing the end of cable/broadcast television and it's the only thing WMC does well. Products/services like Amazon/Netflix/Hulu and the Networks own services are going to all be web based. Our media centers will be replaced completely by things like Roku and PS3. Especially with hard copy upload services now taking off. WMC is one of the worst interfaces for Hulu and Netflix and it just won't make sense to run a full PC sucking up 60-100watts once TV is dead.

The death of TV will most likely be relative to your region but I know here in Pittsburgh I have a hard time finding someone under 40 that has a cable subscription. The ONLY reason I have one is because my gf has to record Days Of Our Lives every day...

[barnabas1969]

I still don't get it when people write things like "We are nearing the end of cable/broadcast television". That's absolutely ridiculous! TV broadcasters aren't going to simply abandon the multi-million-dollar ATSC transmitters they bought just a few years ago. Cable providers have a huge stake in the media industry... they own a LOT of the content. They also have a huge investment in infrastructure... and they control a lot of your internet service. Do you really think they're going to make it easy for you to stream their content, for free, over the internet?

Cable and broadcast TV are here for AT LEAST the next 10 years. There is no doubt in my mind about that.

[Ack]

I still don't get it when people write things like "We are nearing the end of cable/broadcast television". That's absolutely ridiculous! TV broadcasters aren't going to simply abandon the multi-million-dollar ATSC transmitters they bought just a few years ago. Cable providers have a huge stake in the media industry... they own a LOT of the content. They also have a huge investment in infrastructure... and they control a lot of your internet service. Do you really think they're going to make it easy for you to stream their content, for free, over the internet?

Cable and broadcast TV are here for AT LEAST the next 10 years. There is no doubt in my mind about that.

+1

[StumpyBloke]

We are nearing the end of cable/broadcast television

Absolutely no we are not!

[richard1980]

Here are a few reasons why the OTT model will not kill the traditional model:

• The majority of the content that I can get via my cable subscription cannot be legally obtained via the internet.
• Of the TV content that I can actually legally get via the internet, I can't get any of it right away.
• Of the TV content that I can actually legally get via the internet, much of it is not free. The total cost I would incur to pay for that content exceeds what I am paying for my cable subscription.
• The TV content that I can legally get via the internet is not of the same quality as what I can get via traditional delivery.
• Even if 100% of the content I want to watch was available over the internet (legally or not), my ISP will not allow me to download/stream all of that content due to the bandwidth required exceeding my bandwidth cap. Even if my ISP were to charge me an overage fee, the cost of internet service would be cost prohibitive (assuming current market rate for overage).

[bob_p]

In the early days of Media Center, there were other software DVR applications. But the combination of Microsoft's integration of Media Center into Windows (for free) and the certification requirements for CableCard seemed to drive out the alternative products.

If Microsoft doesn't evolve or continue to support MC - isn't it possible this might open the door for other DVR applications? Companies like SiliconDust and Ceton have their businesses based on selling CableCard tuners - and would have motivation to either develop or partner for a competitive DVR application.

Having Media Center as part of the operating system was a benefit - because it was free. But it's had one huge disadvantage - as part of the OS, it might only get functionality updates every time there's a new OS release. And since it now appears that W8MC will not be much of an improvement over W7MC - then having a 3rd party DVR application may actually be a better solution - something that could see much more rapid software releases - and hopefully provide better integration with the latest non-cable/non-TV sources of programming.

[barnabas1969]

Well written, bob_p. I agree, and I hope someone develops a great DVR software package that includes CableCARD support.

[itznfb]

I still don't get it when people write things like "We are nearing the end of cable/broadcast television". That's absolutely ridiculous! TV broadcasters aren't going to simply abandon the multi-million-dollar ATSC transmitters they bought just a few years ago. Cable providers have a huge stake in the media industry... they own a LOT of the content. They also have a huge investment in infrastructure... and they control a lot of your internet service. Do you really think they're going to make it easy for you to stream their content, for free, over the internet?

Cable and broadcast TV are here for AT LEAST the next 10 years. There is no doubt in my mind about that.

+1

There is nothing special about my neighborhood. Typical american neighborhood with 27 houses on my street. We all know each other and this came up at a block party a couple weekends ago. Out of 27 houses only 3 still had cable and mine was one of them. It's a growing trend that is spreading incredibly fast. My parents even got rid of their cable last month. When I asked them why they got rid of cable the answer is unanimously cost. Fewer and fewer people are willing to pay $150/mo for something they can get for free.

Do I think they are going to make it easy to stream their content for free over the internet.... well, it isn't always free but they already have. Pretty much all content available on cable is provided either free on their own website or through a service such as Hulu.

No one can argue broadcast television is dying. It's just a matter of how fast it will die. I'd bet cable television stations as we know them today won't exist 5 years from now.

[adam1991]

Fewer and fewer people are willing to pay $150/mo for something they can get for free.

I would never pay $150/month for something I can get for free.

But it's a huge mistake to compare cable TV with OTA TV. I cannot get Mythbusters or the Military Channel for free. I cannot get Nick for free. I cannot get Starz/Encore for free. There's TONS of stuff I actually consume off cable TV, that I cannot get without paying someone for it.

To say "TV is TV, it's all the same whether five local broadcast channels or two dozen cable-only channels that I have shows I really, really want to watch" is ridiculous.

And in fact, I wouldn't pay $150/month, period. I pay $81, including taxes and fees, for cable TV (all the channels except HBO/Showtime, includes the second digital tier and all HD versions of all the channels are included) plus 15/2 broadband. So let's do the math: how much would I save by asking my cable company to drop the TV part and just give me the broadband, which I'd need anyway in order to see all the content over the internet? Virtually nothing--because every cable provider likes to bundle, and more often than not the pricing comes out so that TV by itself costs more than TV plus broadband service.

Cable and broadcast aren't going away anytime soon. And, for better or worse, they aren't evolving like they should because the content owners really, really, really want it to continue to be 1975.

[barnabas1969]

I don't know everyone in my neighborhood, but I can say that my house is one of the only two houses on my block with a TV antenna. There are 67 houses on my block (it's a large, irregular-shaped block). I still have cable TV, but I receive OTA also. Every house on all four sides of mine have either cable, satellite, or IPTV (AT&T U-Verse).

@itznfb: Of those 24 houses in your neighborhood who don't have cable... how many have satellite or IPTV?

[StumpyBloke]

No one can argue broadcast television is dying. It's just a matter of how fast it will die. I'd bet cable television stations as we know them today won't exist 5 years from now.

No offence intended, but I couldn't agree less! Broadcast TV I going nowhere, certainly in the UK.

[barnabas1969]

No one can argue broadcast television is dying. It's just a matter of how fast it will die. I'd bet cable television stations as we know them today won't exist 5 years from now.

No offence intended, but I couldn't agree less! Broadcast TV I going nowhere, certainly in the UK.

I completely agree with you Stumpy. I only know two people who have "cut the cord" and got rid of cable/satellite/IPTV... and I work with a bunch of techno-nerds (myself included). And those two use OTA broadcasts as their primary source, with Internet streaming as a fill-in for a few things that are not found OTA.

They've both been trying to get me to cut the cord too... but there are a few shows that I cannot get (legally and/or easily) on the Internet, so I've chosen to stick with cable. I'm not willing to spend hours searching for and downloading illegal content. It comes down to convenience vs. cost. I've chosen to pay the $100/month for the convenience of not having to search for and download what I want to watch (often illegally). I guess you could also put a value on the peace of mind that comes with knowing that I don't need to worry about the federal or state police knocking on my door and carting me off to jail for downloading illegal content.

[richard1980]

Pretty much all content available on cable is provided either free on their own website or through a service such as Hulu.

I have yet to see any cable programs that I watch be available for free anywhere. And no, it's not on Hulu either. There's a reason these shows go for $3-$5 per episode on Amazon.

[mark1234]

the content owners really, really, really want it to continue to be 1975.

This is so sadly true.

[Scallica]

Posts about ISP bandwidth caps have been moved to here:

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... =13&t=2074