When is Ceton going to fix the macroblocking issue?

[Diverge]

Yes, I'm referring to 1.1.7.2. No, I didn't report it. I'm so frustrated, I can't tell you how much. And honestly, I'm not willing to play with a whole bunch of firmware versions when I can't even reliably change channels, and wait for you to hopefully fix it sometime in the next couple of years. Let's face it... this reboot issue has been going on for a long time too. I wasn't affected by it much if at all, but when I installed the latest "stable" firmware, I couldn't even reliably change channels. I'm sure you understand how frustrating that is. I'm back to 1.0.9.5 now. Channel changing works again. I've been home from work lately, and I'm watching a lot of TV.

I've installed tons of different firmware on my ceton tuner, and have never had any issues changing channels (not saying it's not real, or can't happen). Sometimes windows media center's config will get messed up and cause weird stuff, loss of the tuner, ect. Did you try to do a reset via the ceton diagnostic program to reset mediacenters tuner config and then rerun the setup?

[barnabas1969]

We are not aware of ANY customers using InfiniTVs with CableCARDs which are hitting any sort of reboot issue using our latest stable (1.1.7.2) firmware. In fact, the feedback we have received on 1.1.7.2 has been overwhelmingly positive. We are certainly willing to investigate the rebooting issue that you are experiencing on 1.1.7.2, but unless a support ticket is opened and we can collect data, there is nothing we can do, as no one else has reported this problem. If you do open a ticket for it, please PM me the ticket number.

I didn't say that the Ceton card rebooted, just that it became non-responsive. I installed the new firmware when it was released to the general public. That was about 5 days ago. Since then, I've had three instances where I got "service unavailable" or "weak TV signal" when I tried to change channels. I was still able to tune any ATSC or ClearQAM channels that use my other tuners just fine, but the Ceton would not tune. I tried stopping/starting the Ceton tuning service, and unplugged/replugged the Tuning Adapter. Neither of those worked. I rebooted and it worked again. I never had this issue prior to updating the firmware from 1.0.9.5, and I haven't changed anything else on the computer.

[btracy]

I apologize that you feel you have been ignored - that was not the intent. Rather, we simply did not have a significant update to share (please do not interpret this as we have not been working on it, as that is not true) so we did not reiterate our earlier messages.
At this point, we have all the data we need from external customers and are investigating it. Unfortunately, I cannot share specifics beyond that at this point in time. As I mentioned, I have spent a significant amount of time in the last few days

I appreciate this update very much erkotz. I know it isn't easy to represent your company in a thread like this but it goes a long way in letting your customers know the current status/focus for the issue. I have been a bit gun shy for the 1.1.7.2 firmware as 1.0.9.5 has been rock solid for me (minus the macroblocking of course). I may have to check out the release notes to see what it gets me.

[newfiend]

Erkotz, Thank you for replying. All of us having this issue appreciate your input. I know you are limited on what you can post on a public forum regarding work as I am sure Ceton want's to keep its core technology to itself as much as possible. All we ask as customers is small updates.. anything that you can provide so we know we haven't been forgotten.
It makes us all feel at ease that we spent our money wisely. To be honest I really like the Ceton tuners and they have really worked well for me. I see this issue from time to time but not often. But it does happen.
Thank you for looking into this issue for us and spending your time working toward a fix. We all appreciate that. I am running 1.1.7.2 on both the USB and PCIe tuners and haven't seen any reboot issues yet. Just the macroblocking described here from time to time. I don't see this nearly as much as Brian (Barnabas) does.. For him it is much more frequent.. not sure why.
At any rate thanks for chiming in on this,. It puts lots of minds at ease that at least we know it's being looked into.
newfiend~

[mguebert]

We are not aware of ANY customers using InfiniTVs with CableCARDs which are hitting any sort of reboot issue using our latest stable (1.1.7.2) firmware. In fact, the feedback we have received on 1.1.7.2 has been overwhelmingly positive. We are certainly willing to investigate the rebooting issue that you are experiencing on 1.1.7.2, but unless a support ticket is opened and we can collect data, there is nothing we can do, as no one else has reported this problem. If you do open a ticket for it, please PM me the ticket number.

I didn't say that the Ceton card rebooted, just that it became non-responsive. I installed the new firmware when it was released to the general public. That was about 5 days ago. Since then, I've had three instances where I got "service unavailable" or "weak TV signal" when I tried to change channels. I was still able to tune any ATSC or ClearQAM channels that use my other tuners just fine, but the Ceton would not tune. I tried stopping/starting the Ceton tuning service, and unplugged/replugged the Tuning Adapter. Neither of those worked. I rebooted and it worked again. I never had this issue prior to updating the firmware from 1.0.9.5, and I haven't changed anything else on the computer.

I am not sure what your problems are, but I was having similiar issues and Ceton was very responsive in asking for logs and other information and suggesting courses of action including upgrading to 1.1.7.2 which did not help my tuner freezes either. One of their suggestions did seem to cure the issue. It's only been 5 days so I have not closed my open ticket yet, but I am cautiously optimistic. I would have never thought Anti Virus would cause tuner lockups but it seems that it did. I was running AVG2012 and the tuner worked pretty well for awhile and then started locking up frequently and the only thing I could do to get it back was a reboot. It was random and unpredictable. I tried everything but ultimately the only thing that made a difference was removing AVG at Cetons suggestion and changing to Microsoft Security Essentials.

It's worth trying in your case I think.

[adam1991]

yeah, AVG went down the Norton path.

MSE for me.

[barnabas1969]

I'm already running Microsoft Security Essentials, and the plain-old Windows firewall. I've had the tuner for over a year. The HTPC is my primary device for TV on all five TV's in the house... and I've never had a "service unavailable" or "weak TV signal" message before upgrading to the latest firmware. I leave the machine alone. It's been very stable, except for the macroblocking issue, ever since I built it. I don't even run Windows updates. I think it's pretty obvious what the cause is. I reverted back to 1.0.9.5 and watched TV practically all day today without an issue.

Yes, I know that Ceton is good about replying to posts on their support website. I'm just at the point where I'm fed up. My new HD HomeRun Prime tuner arrives Thursday.

If Ceton fixes it pretty soon, I may consider going back to the Ceton tuner... but the combination of the macroblocking issue, and all the others that seem to have started after 1.0.9.5 (tuner crashes, weak signal, service unavailable), I just really don't want to go through all that pain. I occasionally saw an issue once every month or two that may have been the tuner crash issue. I was hoping that the new firmware was going to fix that. Instead, it made something as simple as changing channels a problem.

[barnabas1969]

Since my HTPC is my primary source for every TV in the house, I really need it to be stable. I can't be messing with it all the time. If the Ceton tuner was in my desktop PC, Ceton could use it to test to their heart's content.

[STC]

Sorry, when does your HD tuner arrive again?

[barnabas1969]

Sorry, when does your HD tuner arrive again?

OK, I guess you're joking, but it will be here Thursday. I'm home all week this week, so I'll be here to swap it out.

I'm not looking forward to calling my cable company to re-pair the cable card with a new tuner, but that's what I'm going to have to do. Not only is it a pain to deal with the cable company and getting a cable card paired, but my cable service is split between a commercial account and a residential account. My employer pays for my Internet service, so my Internet is on a business account. It's always a 2-hour phone call every time I call them for anything... because my account is not "normal".

If I'm feeling industrious, I'll put the Ceton tuner in my desktop PC first and give it a test to see if the macroblocking is still there.

[barnabas1969]

I'm home anxiously awaiting the UPS man. I just got word from Brighthouse that Tuning Adapters will be free for now on, starting next month. So, if I wanted to get a 2nd HDHR Prime, it would only cost me $3.00/month for the CableCARD (instead of $7.00 for a CC and TA). I also found a benefit to the HDHR Prime that I did not know about:

When I was reading the installation instructions on the Silicon Dust website, I found out that the TA connects directly to the HDHR Prime, instead of connecting the TA to the computer. That means that I could put both the HDHR Prime AND the TA in my wiring closet. One less box in the living room!

[holidayboy]

Don't move more than 10' away from the door - delivery drivers are trained to turn up while you are in the bathroom / back garden (yard) / vacuuming etc......

Or is that just in the UK?

[barnabas1969]

No. Here too. They usually just drop the box by the door. They don't even ring the doorbell most times.

[crawfish]

They don't even ring the doorbell most times.

Which I appreciated as it would always set the dog off. He also hated the bell sound on "Family Feud". Strangely, he was cool with "Wheel of Fortune".

[barnabas1969]

It's here! But I promised the wife that I would do the dishes today... so I better do that first. Once I start playing with the tuners, the rest of the day is shot to hell.

[newfiend]

Yup.. And if momma misses her shows tonight you know your gonna hear it right?...lol
WAF can be a pain..lol (I speak from experience)

Sent from my WP7 using Board Express

[barnabas1969]

I may have to eat some crow now. Either that, or there IS a relationship between this problem and something to do with a combination of hardware.

Before I setup the new HDHR Prime, I took the Ceton tuner out of my HTPC and put it in my desktop PC. All in the name of science, right?

I put the Ceton tuner in the desktop PC and connected it to the same coax cable that the HTPC was connected to. Same Tuning Adapter and TV too. The desktop is an AMD with on-board graphics as I mentioned earlier in this thread. The HTPC is an Intel machine with an nVidia GT-430 video card. The desktop PC has a really OLD hard drive. I bought the drive in 2003. It's a 7200 RPM 160GB drive (it was very large back then), with a pretty small buffer compared to the drives in the HTPC. The HTPC's recording drives have a 64MB buffer. I'm not sure how big the buffer is in the old 160GB drive in the desktop, but I'm sure it's no larger than 8MB. The only other difference between the two machines that I think might be relevant, is that the HTPC has two 2TB drives configured as a RAID-0 in Windows Disk Management (it is not a BIOS RAID). The desktop has a single 160GB drive for recorder storage. Both systems have SSD's as the system drive.

I ran through the Digital Cable Advisor and TV setup. Then, I started watching TV. Now, keep in mind, the HTPC plays ClearQAM and ATSC shows perfectly. I have two other tuner cards for those channels. One is connected to an outdoor antenna (ATSC) and the other is connected to the cable TV, but only receives the Clear QAM channels. I did not move the ClearQAM nor ATSC tuners to the desktop PC, but I don't see how they could possibly cause this problem with the Ceton tuner.

First, I watched Comedy Central HD on the desktop PC. This is one of the channels where I see the problem the most frequently (probably because I watch a lot of Comedy Central). I watched about 30 minutes of Comedy Central without a glitch. This is very unusual. I usually see problems on Comedy Central at least every five minutes. My eyes were glued to the screen. I didn't see a single thing that looks like this issue. I did see a couple of minor pixelation issues... but nothing like what I was seeing on the HTPC (a line across the screen like the pictures in my first post). Same tuner, same CableCARD, same coax, same Tuning Adapter, same TV, same resolution... just a different PC with a different chipset, and a different recording drive.

So, then I thought... maybe the problem is related to multiple streams being tuned by the Ceton card. So, I tried to record four shows simultaneously. Well... with four shows recording, there was occasional stuttering. But I attribute this to a very old, very slow, HDD. So, I stopped one of the recordings. Three shows were recording simultaneously. The stuttering stopped.

One of those shows was on CNN. This channel is another big offender. I watched 30 minutes of CNN. Again, not a single glitch that looks like this issue.

So, this leaves me with only two possibilities:

A) My problem looks like the known-issue, but is not the same thing. In this case, I owe Ceton and Eric Kotz a big apology. A big, heaping plate of steaming crow would be in order.
B) There is some relationship between this issue and hardware.

So, I would like to ask for Eric's help to determine whether this is A or B above.

I have not yet setup the HD HomeRun Prime tuner. I do not know if the HDHR Prime has the same issue with the HTPC as the Ceton tuner. I had some errands to run today, in addition to washing the dishes. My wife likes American Idol... and American Idol pre-empted my testing this evening. I had to get the Ceton tuner back into the HTPC before 8pm. I'll have to resume testing tomorrow morning when she goes to work.

[newfiend]

Well... This is basically...PC's. Compatibility issues with hardware components have been around forever. Sometimes you have to find what combination of hardware components works best together. (This can be a royal PITA and sometimes it comes down to trial and error)
Aren't you glad I suggested trying it in another PC now with a different chipset?
Like I said before.. I was amazed at how frequently you got that issue.. I was one of the first batch preorders for the Ceton card. I have one from the very first batch to land in the US here. and it's really worked quite well for me. I do get the issue you have but like I said it's rare.
I know you have had one heck of a time with yours. And for that I am sorry,.. with the frequency you get it I would have been upset as well. But there must be some reason your HTPC doesn't like the Ceton.. chipset or otherwise.
Do some more testing tomorrow and keep me posted. Now my curiosity is going.. Good Luck Brian I hope you can figure out what's causing the issue.
newfiend~

[cnewsgrp]

I have not yet setup the HD HomeRun Prime tuner. I do not know if the HDHR Prime has the same issue with the HTPC as the Ceton tuner. I had some errands to run today, in addition to washing the dishes. My wife likes American Idol... and American Idol pre-empted my testing this evening. I had to get the Ceton tuner back into the HTPC before 8pm. I'll have to resume testing tomorrow morning when she goes to work.

I have HDHR and don't see this issue, but from your description its a hardware issue. I would keep Ceton and return HDHR after testing for few days

[barnabas1969]

This is weird. I moved the Ceton card back to the HTPC last night, and I've been sitting here for about 20 minutes watching Comedy Central, and there hasn't been a problem. I suppose that re-seating the card could have done it, but that seems very hard to believe. I've had the card out before and the problem persisted after putting it back in.

I'm going to keep monitoring it. If there are no problems in the next couple of days, I'll either send the HDHR Prime back, or give it to my sister and her boyfriend as a gift. He has Media Center envy. If I give it to him, I'll probably end up building a PC for him too.