Copy protected?

[rjairam]

My cable company doesn't mark anything copy protected as far as I'm aware. My cablecards aren't even paired.

I noticed "doomsday preppers" on NatGeo said that it was copy protected when I went to watch it. I was able to watch it but when I first clicked on it, I saw a small "i" with copy protected next to it.

I know there was a bug that caused some shows to be copy protected by mistake. Could this be it or could it be some other copy protection flag?

[adam1991]

That "bug" that "caused some shows to be copy protected by mistake" has nothing to do with your system, or Windows, or Media Center, or... That "bug" is the human operator who set the flag at the broadcaster's.

Mistake, yes--but once set, there's nothing you can do about it except complain to your cableco.

[rjairam]

That "bug" that "caused some shows to be copy protected by mistake" has nothing to do with your system, or Windows, or Media Center, or... That "bug" is the human operator who set the flag at the broadcaster's.

Mistake, yes--but once set, there's nothing you can do about it except complain to your cableco.

I don't think this was set by the cableco. Every channel is 0x00 and the cards aren't even paired (which I believe is required for anything other than 0x00 content).

Could have been CGMS? That's what I'm hoping to find out, specifically how to find out which flag it was.

[Scallica]

Could have been CGMS? That's what I'm hoping to find out, specifically how to find out which flag it was.

No, CGMS is analog only. The flag was the CCI flag. As I understand it, the flag is dictated by the copyright holder, but is set by the MSO's head end. Yes, it is true that sometimes the flag is set incorrectly.

[rjairam]

Could have been CGMS? That's what I'm hoping to find out, specifically how to find out which flag it was.

No, CGMS is analog only. The flag was the CCI flag. As I understand it, the flag is dictated by the copyright holder, but is set by the MSO's head end. Yes, it is true that sometimes the flag is set incorrectly.

How can it be CCI when my card isn't paired?

If the card isn't paired you're not supposed to even be able to view anything other than 0x00, yet I was able to view and record, just not copy from one to another.

The next time the show airs, I'll see if I can record it on my ATI tuners on another PC and compare.

[Scallica]

If the card isn't paired you're not supposed to even be able to view anything other than 0x00

I don't believe that is true.

[erkotz]

If the card isn't paired you're not supposed to even be able to view anything other than 0x00

I don't believe that is true.

It is. If the CableCARD is not paired to the host, it will release copy freely and nothing else. Also, while CGMS is an analog concept, it actually is represented digitally too, and digital signals can have this.

[WhatHappend]

No, CGMS is analog only.

Not correct. CGMS was developed for analog but can be carried in the MPEG stream just like how other VBI information is carried for CC, TVGUIDE info for gemstar and such.

The flag was the CCI flag. As I understand it, the flag is dictated by the copyright holder, but is set by the MSO's head end. Yes, it is true that sometimes the flag is set incorrectly.

That also was not the case. The flag that knocked out Modern Family with "content prohibited recording" a month ago was not a CCI flags, but CGMS flag that was set by the ABC network not the cable MSO. Cable MSOs that re-compress the signal stripped the flag som their networks weren't affected.

Note: CCI flags if improperly set during a show could cause the same issue, but I have never seen that happening since OCUR tuners have been available.

See: http://experts.windows.com/frms/windows ... spx#550173
From erkotz (replace "configured " with "confirmed" when reading) :

I did get a TS from last week, and configured it did have CGMS-A set, and was hopeful of catching them in the act this week, unfortunately it seems they didn't switch it on this week.

[Scallica]

Interesting. I didn't know CGMS flags could be carried digitally and I didn't know an absence of pairing means everything is copy freely. So do MSOs ever set flags or is it always the broadcaster?

[WhatHappend]

From my understanding:

MSOs like Comcast set the CCI flags to copy-once on most channels. I am not sure why. If you call in to view a PPV special event like a fight on you cablecard, that might have the CCI flag set as Copy Never. MSO's and broadcasters are limited on when they can use a more restrictive CCI flag than Copy Once.

The absence of pairing means the cable card won't decrypt (pass) any signal with CCI other than "Copy Freely".

[rjairam]

MSO's and broadcasters are limited on when they can use a more restrictive CCI flag than Copy Once.

Yep, this is all part of the FCC's "plug and play" agreement where cable operators are prohibited from setting CCI higher than "copy freely" on must carry content (local channels).

Luckily preppers is on tonight again so I'll make some recordings and compare.

[rjairam]

Two recordings made with the ATIs, and it looks like it's copy protected too, dang!

And it looks like it's not CCI (but we knew that already):

Unit Address: ************
****************
Encryption: DES
Connected:yes, EnabledByCP: yes
Auth: SUBSCRIBED
CA enable: possible
ECM PID: 0x0431
Component PIDs:
0x0800 0x0801 0x0802
0x0000 0x0000 0x0000
Host Validation: Unknown 00
Copy Protection Key: Disabled
CCI: 0x00

btw, I'm pretty sure the show is available from unauthorized sources... so much for copy protection stopping piracy.

[rjairam]

OK, so mystery solved. It was CGMS. Looked on the Ceton diagnostic page for the tuner and it shows 0x02 "One Copy" CGMS-A.