Getting a new PVR soon, need some help

[bros]

Hi, been on my current PVR with Windows Media Center & EPG123 for around 9 years now and I have a few questions:
1. My current one is on its way out - how well does WMC work on 10?
2. Any precautions I need to take with it on 10? i.e. disable updates or add something to boot on startup?
3. Will I be able to use my tuner & cablecard with WMC on windows 10? Will I be able to record and play recordings with a copy-protection flag (or whatever it is)?
4. I assume that if I take the drive with recordings + epg123 backup to the new computer, that would work?

[unclebun]

You can use WMC on Windows 10, but updates will wipe it out and you have to reinstall it every time.
Cablecard tuners will not work on Windows 10. OTA tuners will.
Previous recordings can be played only if they are not copy protected.

[bros]

You can use WMC on Windows 10, but updates will wipe it out and you have to reinstall it every time.
Cablecard tuners will not work on Windows 10. OTA tuners will.
Previous recordings can be played only if they are not copy protected.

what the hell, so a CableCARD tuner won't work at all? Why does that happen?

So, do I have to change to a different program in order to have cablecard support?

[unclebun]

Microsoft got rid of the necessary support for cablecard in Windows 10. You can read all about it in this old thread: viewtopic.php?t=12776

[dkm]

Basically if you have copy protected channels you've got Windows 7 or 8/8.1... If you just need cablecard but the channels you're watching are not labeled as protected, there are more options. If you're using an HD Homerun Prime, you can use their app or NextPVR.

I've been looking into alternatives to my MCE/Cablecard setup for a while, but honestly the way Comcast has priced my double play package makes it at best the same price as using 1-2 streaming services get all the channels I usually watch. My HTPC is like yours: Over 10 years old, and running an old OS. Silicondust promised full Protected Channel support in their app approximately 6 years ago, but they have yet to release it and get really annoyed at anyone bringing it up in their forums.

[bros]

Basically if you have copy protected channels you've got Windows 7 or 8/8.1... If you just need cablecard but the channels you're watching are not labeled as protected, there are more options. If you're using an HD Homerun Prime, you can use their app or NextPVR.

I've been looking into alternatives to my MCE/Cablecard setup for a while, but honestly the way Comcast has priced my double play package makes it at best the same price as using 1-2 streaming services get all the channels I usually watch. My HTPC is like yours: Over 10 years old, and running an old OS. Silicondust promised full Protected Channel support in their app approximately 6 years ago, but they have yet to release it and get really annoyed at anyone bringing it up in their forums.

I have an HDHomeRun Prime

So I have spent the last ~2 weeks trying out plex, jellyfin, emby, Kodi (with nextPVR), and attempted to install MythTV - holy moly is that program a pain to install. I tried to install it for 3 hours and I still hadn't gotten it set up). My conclusion is that none are a decent replacement. Right now I am thinking of getting a new HTPC and installing Windows 7 + WMC on it (WMC is included in base Windows 7, right?), since none of these work well.

Plex
Pros:
Seems like it would be good for non-PVR purposes.
It grabs the guide from Schedules Direct easily enough

Cons:
PVR seems like an afterthought
Costs $119 for lifetime
Can't view recordings in progress
No entering a channel number (or favoriting so one stays at the top)

Jellyfin
Pros:
Free (outside of schedules direct cost)
You can favorite channels to put them at the top of the guide
Gets guide info easily (Schedules direct)

Cons:
Can't scroll down through the guide - you don't have all channels showing (you get down ~150 or so, then have to click while it loads the next 150)
You cannot watch any recordings in progress (they don't even show up)
Does not alert you when there are recording conflicts

Emby
Pros:
You can favorite channels to put them at the top of the guide
You can enter channel numbers
Gets guide info easily (Schedules direct)

Cons:
Costs $119 for lifetime access
You cannot watch recordings in progress
Does not recognize recording conflicts

Kodi w/ nextPVR
Pros:
Free
Gets guide info easily (Schedules direct)
Recognizes recording conflicts (But doesn't say there is one - just says there has been an issue)

Cons:
Feels a bit bloated
Was a bit slow (I ran Kodi on my Fire Stick and nextPVR on my laptop that I am using to test these setups)
It doesn't have the same channel numbers as the backend until you go into advanced options and tell it to use the correct numbers.

[Space]

Right now I am thinking of getting a new HTPC and installing Windows 7 + WMC on it (WMC is included in base Windows 7, right?), since none of these work well.

WMC comes with Windows 7 and is a separate add-on for Windows 8.x

There may be issues with installing Win7 on newer PCs, but I don't know much about it (one thing I think I saw is that Win7 doesn't have drivers to support modern USB hardware, but there may be other issues as well), so do some research. I think there are ways around the problems, you just need to be prepared to handle them. Another option is to get an older PC/motherboard that was made for use with Win7.

[bros]

Right now I am thinking of getting a new HTPC and installing Windows 7 + WMC on it (WMC is included in base Windows 7, right?), since none of these work well.

WMC comes with Windows 7 and is a separate add-on for Windows 8.x

There may be issues with installing Win7 on newer PCs, but I don't know much about it (one thing I think I saw is that Win7 doesn't have drivers to support modern USB hardware, but there may be other issues as well), so do some research. I think there are ways around the problems, you just need to be prepared to handle them. Another option is to get an older PC/motherboard that was made for use with Win7.

ah damn, forgot about that


hmmm, I might be able to use my old gaming PC motherboard, CPU, and RAM - would just need to get a PSU, case, and hard drive - but that hardware is from ~2015 or so. But it is a step up

ugh I hate that microsoft hates media center so much, it is the perfect software

[unclebun]

I just tried building a new WMC PC using modern motherboard and CPU. I was using an Asrock B550 motherboard and a Ryzen 5 5600G. I had already determined that I would have to build a custom installation media with the USB 3 and SATA controller drivers ahead of time, and did so. Turns out there was a utility on the support CD with the motherboard to do so. It worked but with some problems that I was unable to solve. I could never get every exclamation mark in Device Manager dealt with. There are some motherboard components that I couldn't get a driver installed for. I couldn't get a driver installed for the onchip graphics adapter, even after trying a hacked driver downloaded from a Russian forum that worked with earlier generation Ryzens. Maybe if I'd had an old nvidia graphics card on hand I might have gotten it to work, but the RX550 I had I ran into problems with driver version between the Catalyst driver for the chipset and the graphics card. Eventually I gave up and made it a Windows 10 computer with Netflix and Peacock and Amazon Prime, which we already have. And then I discovered that with VLC, we can watch recorded TV from the folder on the Homeserver just fine. Mission accomplished since we have a working media center computer in the living room. Wife can watch TV in the kitchen now--from streaming sources or stuff she records on the living room computer.

[StinkyImp]

About a month ago th3luk3st3r mentioned he was able to build a Win7 machine on modern hardware (11th gen i5 and an NVIDIA GTX1650). See his post at viewtopic.php?p=146532#p146532

[bros]

About a month ago th3luk3st3r mentioned he was able to build a Win7 machine on modern hardware (11th gen i5 and an NVIDIA GTX1650). See his post at viewtopic.php?p=146532#p146532

Does the HD Homerun Prime (has a cablecard in it) work on 10? I know it wouldn't work on DRM channels, but I assume the Prime would work with WMC?

[technodevotee]

this might help: viewtopic.php?p=141878#p141878

[bros]

wow, comapnies are really trying to kill cablecards aren't they

I think I am just gonna upgrade my old parts and turn that into a WMC PC

[o2cats]

I have been keeping 4 old Windows 7 computers going past their prime, just to keep WMC running. I was also running WMC on a Windows 10 machine just to test it. It even made it through several Windows Upgrade cycles, before I fried that machine a few months ago. I need to install it on another Windows 10 machine, but I would be interested in real Windows 10 WMC users' experience with WMC in Windows10 versus 7.

I have tested other media center software, but nothing works as well for me. I continually watch TV shows while they are recording, and love the abilty to watch informational programing on a faster speed, with normal audio.

Other than updates forcing a reinstall, what are the main issues with running WMC on Windows 10?

[bros]

I have been keeping 4 old Windows 7 computers going past their prime, just to keep WMC running. I was also running WMC on a Windows 10 machine just to test it. It even made it through several Windows Upgrade cycles, before I fried that machine a few months ago. I need to install it on another Windows 10 machine, but I would be interested in real Windows 10 WMC users' experience with WMC in Windows10 versus 7.

I have tested other media center software, but nothing works as well for me. I continually watch TV shows while they are recording, and love the abilty to watch informational programing on a faster speed, with normal audio.

Other than updates forcing a reinstall, what are the main issues with running WMC on Windows 10?

It sounds like one of the big issues is no cablecard support + it doesn't play well with HDHomeRun devices

[technodevotee]

@o2cats, I've been running WMC since it was released and have always found it extremely reliable.

When it was first got working on Windows 10 it was very flaky to start with but it rock solid now so as long as you keep making backups so you can restore (or are prepared to start from scratch) whenever MS force a major upgrade.

Having said that, I am in the UK so I don't have the issue with DRM to worry about and I use terrestrial and satellite tuners.

It is a shame that extenders don't work any more but I find Windows 10 much better than previous versions. I've running it on Widows 11 on a different PC since day one as well and that is getting better too.

The community did a great job with WMC.

[bros]

@o2cats, I've been running WMC since it was released and have always found it extremely reliable.

When it was first got working on Windows 10 it was very flaky to start with but it rock solid now so as long as you keep making backups so you can restore (or are prepared to start from scratch) whenever MS force a major upgrade.

Having said that, I am in the UK so I don't have the issue with DRM to worry about and I use terrestrial and satellite tuners.

It is a shame that extenders don't work any more but I find Windows 10 much better than previous versions. I've running it on Widows 11 on a different PC since day one as well and that is getting better too.

The community did a great job with WMC.

What tuner do you use?

[technodevotee]

I've got a Hauppauge WinTV Quad HD (PCIe) DVB-T2 tuner in one PC and two Hauppauge WinTV Nova HD (PCI) DVB-S2 tuners in another one,

I've also got a pair of TBS 6982 twin (PCIe) DVB-S2 cards but there was an intermittent problem with certain transponders that lead me a merry dance to pin down for over a year so I replaced them with a pair of TBS 6902 twin (PCIe) DVB-S2 cards thinking they would be an improvement but had a different problem with them (not recording when waking from sleep) so I returned them and went back to my trusty old Hauppauge Nova HDs.

[o2cats]

I just installed version WMC 8.8.5. It took a little longer than expected. I wasted time looking for different installation instructions. It just seemed like there were more steps last time, or the time before. The last one I used was 8.8.4, but I may have been thinking about one of the previous V versions. I also installed, and linked the EPG software. I still have to set up a Windows 10 client machine, and do all the scheduling, so that should test my memory. It seemed as though I had more network problems in Windows 10 than with my Windows 7 systems, but that may have been trying to mix them.

I just need to make myself use it more on a daily basis, so I can really compare. I have fairly standard PCs, and HD Homerun tuners using an antenna to receive OTA broadcast signals. I don't plan on stopping any Windows updates. I will just deal with the consequenses, including reloading, but I hope to learn what files should be saved to shortcut the process.

I will get back with results, good or bad, in case anyone in is a similar situation.

Thanks for your help, and suggestions.

[technodevotee]

Everything is built into 8.8.5 so there aren't any workarounds to be done unless MS break something with an update.

As far as keeping it running on Windows 10 and 11 is concerned, it is just a matter of making sure that you backup everything in the \programdata\ehome folder and WMC registry entries occasionally.

There is a script called backuprestoresettings in the installer folder that does that but it is a kind of one shot deal because once you have made a backup, it automatically offers to restore the next time it is run. I usually make a backup then move the files to somewhere else to get round that limitation.

The other thing to be aware of with backuporestoresettings is that the tuner GUIDs sometimes get changed during an update and using backuprestoresettings to restore the backup doesn't work.

The other way of making a backup is to use the function in EPG123. Gary has updated the feature so that it gets round the second limitation mentioned.

I'm a belt, braces and pieces of string guy so I use both of these plus an independent manual backup. Because my setup is rather complex, it has taken me two days to get my WMC back to how I want it after a crash or upgrade so I am rather fussy when it comes to the subject of backups.