Slight stutter when HDTV Pans.

[tomtoth]

Guys,
First off, I've tried searching, I thought maybe I had the stuttering extender problem like so many had had before.. But I belive I do not... I have great picture, my problem is that when watching live tv, when the picture is panning fast, I get like a double frame or a freezes.
No artifacts, maybe a slight pause, maybe stutter? I'm not even sure what to call it. Its a little bit annoying.. but I'm not sure exactly if this is normal, or if it is the Host PC, the network or the xbox TV itself. Its a brand new Samsung LCD, which I've seet to 60hz (none of the 120).

Host PC:
Intel Pentium Dual-Core G620T Sandy Bridge 2.2GHz LGA 1155 35W Dual-Core Desktop Processor BX80623G620T
Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SATA III (Boot)
Seagate Barracuda Green ST1500DL003 1.5TB 5900 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5 (Data)
GIGABYTE GA-Z68MA-D2H-B3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68
Intel Gigabit Pro 10/100/1000
Ceton Infini4

Now, when watching TV on the host PC, i have no stutter or really any problems, except that I am running the onboard Intel video card, which seems to only wanna work @ 29HZ refresh, anything else and when I turn TV on, sometimes it doesn't come on.

Now, When watching Live TV from the xbox, does it care anything about the host pc spec's for video card? I installed dedicated intel pro 10/100/1000, tried chaging the flow control attibutes and some other paramaters on the nic. I tried moving from a 10/100 WRT54g switch, to a Cisco 5port soho 10/100/1000 switch.

I was thinking about buying one of the 24 port hp procurve managed switches.. thinking perhaps the port buffering may help.. and perhaps my old switches are interfering with UPnP.

I'm asking because I'm not having the macroblocking, or the audio sync issues, or the network tuner error on the xbox360.(Like when searching xbox360 stutter) Its just when panning (which is quite often it seems) it freezes, or pauses or double frames for a fraction of a second.

I also have a WHS, which doesn't do any tv archiving from the media center pc. All this is a file server & backup server. I read that maybe UPnP enabled on the WHS may cause issues?

Any idea's as to what I can actually call the problem I'm having? OR idea's for what I may be missing. I assume the video card on the media center pc should have nothing to deal with xbox360? Is this the case? Could I have this 29/59 bug on the xbox and NOT the Host pc??

Thanks!
Tom

[newfiend]

That's a strange bug with your refresh rate. What happens if you set the host pc to 59hz/60hz? Have you checked for updated video drivers or bios updates for the MB?. I am not sure if your host pc would be sending out a video signal to your Xbox at 29hz or not based on your settings..if you set the host pc to 60hz does the Xbox stutter stop?

Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express

[tomtoth]

That's a strange bug with your refresh rate. What happens if you set the host pc to 59hz/60hz? Have you checked for updated video drivers or bios updates for the MB?. I am not sure if your host pc would be sending out a video signal to your Xbox at 29hz or not based on your settings..if you set the host pc to 60hz does the Xbox stutter stop?

I think I tried that, setting the host to 60HZ, but I will try it again.. But does the video card on the HOST pc have anything to deal with how video is displayed on the xbox? Maybe I could try a cheap nvidia 430 card on the HOST?

[newfiend]

I have a GT430.. Awesome card.. Did you set up the display in the settings on the Xbox? http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-360/ ... eo-quality I am not sure if setting your refresh rate on the host would affect the stream coming over the network or not..i wouldn't think it would. Check the tv settings for any type of motion enhancers.. Try disabling them if they are enabled. I would think that the picture in your host PC would be most affected by setting the refresh rate so low. When I did that watching TV would lag and stutter..
newfiend

Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express

[UCBearcat]

Not to hi-jack this thread, but I've noticed a similar experience. When I'm using the XBox360 as an extender, HD programming with a lot of motion seems to have a shutter effect. It's really hard to explain. It's not a stutter or slow-down. The best way to explain it is the frame-rate dips during that motion... it's not fluid.
I don't notice it when watching a simple program like a game-show (jeopardy); however while watching a college basketball game, it is very noticeable when the camera pans the court. When the camera is fixed on the half-court, it looks fluid. When panning during a fast break or posession change, it isn't as fluid.
I haven't put my stuff in "production" yet, as I'm still trying to work out the kinks and see how well it will work, etc. This is the first issue that I've noticed so far in my testing.

Setup:
Fresh install Win7 x64
AMD Phenom II x4 840
8GB RAM
1 SATA 3.0 HDD
nVidia 8400GS (1GB RAM)
Both devices on the same 10/100 unmanaged switch (PC reporing 100Mbit Full)

To add to the OP, I don't think the video card (in your main rig) should have any effect on extender performance... but I don't have evidence to support this claim. I thought that I read somewhere that you could put in a "good" video card to pass the WMC checks. Then, pull it and go back to onboard video... assuming you were only using the rig as a "server" for your media and extenders. If this holds true, then I wouldn't imagine the video card should affect extender performance. - that is just my un-professional analysis

At the time, I didn't think to record the basketball game to do any testing, so I'll have to wait for another HD game to be broadcast... At that time, I'll try tweaking the NIC settings as noted by newfiend.

Here is another thought that I had...
I have an old rear-projection Sony that can do 720p or 1080i (1280x720 native). My XBox360 is set static to 720p. Is it possible that the HD broadcast is coming in on the tuner as 1080i, and the Xbox or TV is trying to compensate for the difference in progressive vs. interlacing?
I don't know if this would make a difference for the OP, since I believe he said he has a 1080p display.

[tomtoth]

Not to hi-jack this thread, but I've noticed a similar experience. When I'm using the XBox360 as an extender, HD programming with a lot of motion seems to have a shutter effect. It's really hard to explain. It's not a stutter or slow-down. The best way to explain it is the frame-rate dips during that motion... it's not fluid.
I don't notice it when watching a simple program like a game-show (jeopardy); however while watching a college basketball game, it is very noticeable when the camera pans the court. When the camera is fixed on the half-court, it looks fluid. When panning during a fast break or posession change, it isn't as fluid.
I haven't put my stuff in "production" yet, as I'm still trying to work out the kinks and see how well it will work, etc. This is the first issue that I've noticed so far in my testing.

Here is another thought that I had...
I have an old rear-projection Sony that can do 720p or 1080i (1280x720 native). My XBox360 is set static to 720p. Is it possible that the HD broadcast is coming in on the tuner as 1080i, and the Xbox or TV is trying to compensate for the difference in progressive vs. interlacing?
I don't know if this would make a difference for the OP, since I believe he said he has a 1080p display.

Exactly!, its hard to explain, but it just isn't right..... So I think I got it fixed in my extender.. Changed my xbox output from 1080p to 1080i. That seems to have done it.. Now I only tested this one one HBO channel, but I can clearly see the difference changing back and forth the video output.

Now I don't know, but when after I updated my video drivers on the HOST PC, it defaulted to 29hz.. When an 29hz, I would see vertical lines (green) but no stuttering (Similiar to xbox extender). But when I force 60HZ refresh, I see a little bit of stuttering (I think). Now this is the onboard video.. But I wonder if I went to a nvidia 430 card, if it would be able to output to an older Samsung DLP, and support 60hz..

[UCBearcat]

That's awesome you had some success. I'm interested to know if it fixes it for other stations as well.
I might try switching my XBox to 1080i to see if it makes a difference. This probably wouldn't be a big deal for some, but we watch a lot of sports in our house... got the X Games on right now.

[newfiend]

I wonder if I went to a nvidia 430 card, if it would be able to output to an older Samsung DLP, and support 60hz..

The card has DVI and HDMI outputs as well as VGA. Not sure what your Samsung DLP has for inputs but I have my GT430 set to 60hz through HDMI and it's smooth as glass.. Glad that switching the output from the XBOX to the native resolution on the display fixed your problem.. sometimes things just have to line up right for everything to work correctly.
newfiend~

[UCBearcat]

So, I updated my NIC driver last night. Apparently MS had one newer than what I downloaded directly from the MoBo website. I really can't say that this made a difference. I recorded a little bit of the ProBowl, and then I toggled between 720p and 1080i on my XBox. I couldn't see any noticeable difference between the two. My wife really couldn't either.
I will say, however, that the "shuttering" didn't seem as pronounced when panning in this game. I'll wait until a couple B-ball games come on this weekend and record those... then I'll watch them to see how they look.
One a separate note, when I watch the same clips on an old CRT monitor via video card (VGA), it looks good and fluid. My next test will be to hook the PC straight into my Sony 42" rear-projection to compare/contrast. Since the video looks good via video card, I'm inclined to think it is something on the XBox... I'll be able to verify when I hook the PC to the TV.

[UCBearcat]

I set up a basketball game to record, which has a lot of rapid movement. When watching via XBox Extender (which connects to my Pioneer reciever via component), the shutter is apparent with panning and fast motion. Switching the XBox output between 720p and 1080i make no difference. I hooked my PC straight to my Pioneer reciever via HDMI (which then connects to my TV via HDMI). The shuttering is still apparent when using HDMI.

I then watched the video on an old CRT monitor through the VGA port of my video card again. The picture is smooth with no shutter. Next I opened WMC on my laptop, and streamed the recorded game on my laptop screen over my LAN. Again the picture was smooth with no shutter affect (actually, the picture was beautiful!)
When watching the game through the TWC cable box, it looks good. Cable box also connects through the reciever.

So, at this point, I"m inclined to believe that the problem is either with my Pioneer reciever or the TV itself. It is apparent that the HTPC doing the recordings is recording it okay as it looks good on a laptop and it looks good through the VGA port of the video card.
Since both the PC and the XBox go through reciever, I'm leaning in that direction first. I'll bypass the reciever and see what I get.
I should note that it is a Pioneer VSX919ahk... so, not real old.

[UCBearcat]

I have found the problem that is causing my shuttering/refresh rate issue. It is my TV
I have an older Sony KDF-E42A10 rear projection. It doesn't matter how I view the basketball game, a lot of motion has a noticeable shutter/refresh rate issue. More static programming looks okay. I connected the PC directly via HDMI and VGA. I tried several different resolutions and refresh rates (up to 60Hz). No joy.
As stated before, the xbox was where i first noticed the issue. I hooked the xbox direct to the TV via component... same result.

So, I took the PC up to our new-ish Samsung 32" 1080P 120Hz LCD. I hooked the PC to it via HDMI. The picture looked as good as I would expect. Smooth motion, etc.

So for the OP... I don't know if your older Samsung DLP will work for you or not. I'm actually interested to know how your DLP looks with a lot of motion on the screen.

This whole ordeal leaves me with these questions. Why don't I notice this issue when I'm watching the same program through my TWC HD box? Is the TWC set top box tuner doing something different in its delivery to my TV?

[tomtoth]

So, I took the PC up to our new-ish Samsung 32" 1080P 120Hz LCD. I hooked the PC to it via HDMI. The picture looked as good as I would expect. Smooth motion, etc.

So for the OP... I don't know if your older Samsung DLP will work for you or not. I'm actually interested to know how your DLP looks with a lot of motion on the screen.

This whole ordeal leaves me with these questions. Why don't I notice this issue when I'm watching the same program through my TWC HD box? Is the TWC set top box tuner doing something different in its delivery to my TV?

My older Samsung DLG 55" is OK with 29hz (WMC opening and closing is smooth, but have odd green dots) With 60hz its a smooth picture, but when opening/minimizing WMC, I get all kind of screen garbage.. but only then.

I bought a brand new xbox and 46" Samsung LED/LCD 120hz 3D TV (I did NOT want 3D)January, which nativly runs 1080p. When TV is 1080p connected to xbox, I get the weird motion stutter, but when I change the xbox to 1080i, it pans just like the DLP. Its weird, as I thought 1080p would give the best picture.. but is not the case with me. I turned all the "extra" options I could find, but 1080i xbox setting was where it was for me.