EPG Setup results in HUNG WMC Install !!

McGary

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#21

Post by McGary » Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:39 pm

Success !! ==> Removing Media Center, rebooting, and then adding Media Center back worked.

I did that; then ran EPG and everything worked fine except it didn't update the # of tuners … so at the moment he's got a good EPG guide and 4 functioning tuners (he actually has 2 HDHR's for a total of 6 tuners). I had him buy Image for Windows so I could create an image remotely, and that's happening as I write this. Once that's done, I'll try rerunning WMC to bump the tuner limit -- but I didn't want to do that without a good current image :D

The total time from starting EPG to having a functioning WMC was perhaps 20 minutes -- about what I had anticipated yesterday before everything went wrong. Not sure what that all happened, but if anyone else has a similar issue, just go to Windows features [Control Panel - Programs], uncheck Media Center, reboot; then go back and check Media Center … and then just run EPG. Note that after you configure WMC during the EPG install it will NOT show a link to the guide when it completes, but after you exit WMC and EPG continues the guide option will be added to WMC, so when you start it after the EPG setup completes all will be well. Like I noted above, total time is very nominal … I didn't actually time it, but it couldn't have been more than perhaps 20 minutes.

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#22

Post by McGary » Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:50 pm

One final question on this => The system is working perfectly, except it's only using 4 tuners instead of the 6 he actually has. I presume the correct way to update this is to re-run the EPG setup and do another Clean Start … is that correct?

When I ran EPG before (after removing, re-installing WMC) it gave me the message about only seeing 4 tuners and asked if I wanted to restart it to update the number of tuners; but at that point I said No, as I wanted to be sure everything was working without taking any chances. But now that it's clearly working well; and we have a current Image of the system, I'm confident that it will work well … AND we have a good fallback (the image) if by some chance it doesn't :D

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garyan2

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#23

Post by garyan2 » Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:57 pm

To get the other 2 tuners in there, do the following:

1) Open the client [Tweak WMC] and click the [Increase] button.
2) Close the client and open WMC
3) Perform a new tuner scan by performing TV Setup again (Step 2 from EPG123 setup)
4) Close WMC and open the client
5) Click the Match by: [# Number] button

The TV Setup and tuner scan is the only way for WMC to use the other tuners, unless your friend is okay with just 4.
- Gary
Keeping WMC alive beyond January 2020. https://garyan2.github.io

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#24

Post by McGary » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:32 am

adam1991 wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:24 pm reason #437 why if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

More and more every day I'm afraid to touch it.
I felt that way for a long time, but when I finally bit the bullet last week and installed EPG it couldn't have gone smoother. And I'm VERY happy with the results. I told my friend how simple it was, and since there's really no choice after 14 Jan, we went ahead and did his system -- clearly it did not go as smoothly. But I did get it resolved with the complete reset of WMC (removing it from Windows; then adding it back) … and once that was done it went very smoothly as well … the only glitch was the failure of the tuner # increase to hold, so for now he's only got 4 tuners. We'll fix that in a day or two -- I had other things to do today (it's my birthday), and my friend isn't even sure if he needs to bother with the extra tuners.

The EPG installer in its current state works VERY well -- it's highly unlikely you'll see the issue we had, but even if you do, now that I've suffered through it, the solution is equally simple … just do the "remove WMC", reboot, "add WMC back" bit and then rerun the EPG installer and you'll be fine.

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#25

Post by adam1991 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:21 am

Oh, I have EPG123 installed. Have had it, for 18 months or so.

But one time I went to do an update, and it broke. (Gary acknowledged why at the time.) Fortunately, I had the installer available for my previous working version, so I went back and all was well.

It was a good thing I kept the old installer, because at that point the old installers weren't available.

Anyway, my point is I have a working install. Not sure what version, but it works. I have no reason to touch it, and from what I keep seeing here I have every reason not to touch it. I would guess the later versions do nothing for existing setups, and instead have features aimed at first-timers.

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#26

Post by garyan2 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:54 pm

So rather than telling every new potential user that you would never dare upgrade to the latest version because 12-18 months ago it didn't go well for you, why don't you help and make sure the latest is stable without any unexpected features? Setup a VM, or use a spare computer/laptop, and test it out. Join the contest and show us how much you care to help.

I will certainly grant you that there is wisdom in waiting some time after a new release before upgrading, but I think everyone would appreciate not being called a fool if they do.
- Gary
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#27

Post by adam1991 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:49 pm

I simply ask the question, if it's working then why fix it?

There may be answers to that. Great. There may also be no answers to that. Hmmmmm.

Given that 7MC has not changed in...how long now?, and will never change, what benefits do later versions of EPG123 offer to someone whose had it up and running for 18 months? I realize that the newer versions make it easier to implement for new people who have never installed it before, but what additional, meaningful feature sets does the latest version offer someone like me who has it running quite nicely as is?

That's a message I've never heard.

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#28

Post by McGary » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:42 pm

There's a big difference in the context of your original comment ["If it isn't broke, why fix it?"] between someone who is already using EPG and someone who is moving from the Rovi guide to EPG. In the latter case (which is what was being discussed in this thread), there's no choice … the Rovi guide is going away on 14 Jan, and anyone using WMC with the Microsoft/Rovi guide will be without a guide. At that point, WMC will only work with manual recordings, and no guide -- not a very useful setup.

As for upgrading an existing version of EPG => my understanding is that you don't have to run the new setup at all … you can simply copy the new files to the EPG program folder. [The note on Gary's web site says: "... UPGRADE NOTE
If performing an upgrade from a previous version of EPG123, it is only necessary to run the new setup file or copy over the old files with the contents of the portable zip file. No further action is required."]

Garyan2: I presume you should close WMC when replacing the EPG files … is that right? Also, is there a preferred way to upgrade to a newer version? Your web site you can either run setup, or just copy the files over … does it matter which way it's done? I assume you don't have to do anything with WMC itself.

By the way, as for the resiliency of the newest EPG installer => even after the issues I had with my friend's system, once I did the full reset of WMC (remove, reboot, add it back), when I ran the EPG install it still found the original backup it had made of the previous WMC's configuration and added all of the scheduled recordings to the new setup.

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#29

Post by garyan2 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:06 am

adam1991 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:49 pm I simply ask the question, if it's working then why fix it?

There may be answers to that. Great. There may also be no answers to that. Hmmmmm.

Given that 7MC has not changed in...how long now?, and will never change, what benefits do later versions of EPG123 offer to someone whose had it up and running for 18 months? I realize that the newer versions make it easier to implement for new people who have never installed it before, but what additional, meaningful feature sets does the latest version offer someone like me who has it running quite nicely as is?

That's a message I've never heard.
Well, let's talk about this thread, first. This thread was about WMC not getting past the 'Downloading TV Setup Data" stage of a TV Setup. Absolutely nothing to do with EPG123. This is an issue with WMC and the Microsoft servers. I'm not seeing the relevancy of your comment.

Let's talk about what is "not broken". Well, currently you are correct that WMC with MS/Rovi guide data was still working. The idea of moving over to EPG123 was to fix it before it breaks next month. The timing was the decision of those involved and we certainly have no right to decide that for anyone else. Your comment would suggest everyone should wait until their WMC no longer works. My crystal ball does not tell me how that is going to play out so I encourage an "earlier" move to an alternate provider.

And the message? The message is there, just not to your level of care-about. I'll be the first to say that most of the updates have been about the installation procedures, some added features/tweaks, or whatever. For the most part, what you see in the guide has barely changed in probably 2 years. If that is all you care about, then no need to upgrade. But the message for some, that may care about it, is that there have also been efficiencies gained in past updates and some changes that make the media center experience better.
  • Downloads are using multiple threads now for a faster update.
  • Image links are cached to again reduce the amount of downloads from Schedules Direct servers and speeding up the update.
  • The Sports category now only contains sporting events, rather than everything about sports to include Talk Shows, Documentaries, Pre- and Post- game shows, or even sitcoms.
  • If you have a DVR subscription with SiliconDust, you can now get guide data from them rather than paying $25/year to Schedules Direct (though it will not be as rich in content).
  • Better Cast & Crew filtering for displaying.
  • The ability to ignore stations that have no guide data so you won't get a WARNG status.
  • Better identification of TV Ratings for US and international users.
  • A slew of improvements to the generated XMLTV file for use by other programs.
  • Overall better error handling for both the external and internal functions.
  • ... these are just highlights from the last 12 months.
If none of this is something you care about, then don't upgrade. I am lost, however, when on one side you support and enjoy using EPG123 but on the other side throw shade on any update to the program? EPG123 exists because I saw what a mess the Rovi guide was and knew it could be better. When it didn't get better by itself, I decided to make it better myself. Even with EPG123, in its current state (v1.3.2.10), being a very solid release, I am looking for ways to make it better. Sometimes I make mistakes, and I learn from those mistakes, and that new knowledge gets folded back into EPG123 to make it even better. Like it or not, this will continue until I don't learn anything more.
- Gary
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#30

Post by garyan2 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:02 am

McGary wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:42 pmGaryan2: I presume you should close WMC when replacing the EPG files … is that right? Also, is there a preferred way to upgrade to a newer version? Your web site you can either run setup, or just copy the files over … does it matter which way it's done? I assume you don't have to do anything with WMC itself.
EPG123 doesn't run as a service or anything like that, so it is completely isolated from WMC. There is no harm in WMC being open when updating EPG123 and no harm with WMC being open when EPG123 is updating WMC guide listings. I prefer everyone use the installer for the initial setup and any updates they wish to apply. No harm with just copying the files over though, but you may miss something. An example would be the last installer would create a link for the HDHR2MXF program that would perform a guide listings update to include the creation of the MXF file and importing into WMC along with kicking of the indexing.
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#31

Post by adam1991 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:51 am

McGary wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:42 pm There's a big difference in the context of your original comment ["If it isn't broke, why fix it?"] between someone who is already using EPG and someone who is moving from the Rovi guide to EPG.
I don't dispute that. My comments are to people who updated and for whom it failed. I'm genuinely curious--on something like 7MC, where there isn't anything new and never will be, why change a working EPG123 system? Are there new features related to getting the guide from point A to point B?

Go back and look--I've never told anyone on Rovi "if it ain't broke why fix it".

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#32

Post by garyan2 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:41 am

adam1991 wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:51 am... My comments are to people who updated and for whom it failed.
...
Go back and look--I've never told anyone on Rovi "if it ain't broke why fix it".
Ummm, I guess you don't realize this, but there have been only 4 people commenting on this thread.

McGary: OP discussing transitioning a friend from Rovi to EPG123
Space: hasn't yet moved from Rovi to EPG123 but plans on it
Me: the creator of EPG123, here to help
and You.

Who were you directing the comment to?
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#33

Post by McGary » Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:00 am

garyan2 wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:41 am
adam1991 wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:51 am... My comments are to people who updated and for whom it failed.
...
Go back and look--I've never told anyone on Rovi "if it ain't broke why fix it".
Ummm, I guess you don't realize this, but there have been only 4 people commenting on this thread.

McGary: OP discussing transitioning a friend from Rovi to EPG123
Space: hasn't yet moved from Rovi to EPG123 but plans on it
Me: the creator of EPG123, here to help
and You.

Who were you directing the comment to?
:D :D :D

By the way, I'm very surprised Space isn't on EPG123 -- he/she is very helpful and knowledgeable about it.

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#34

Post by StinkyImp » Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:00 pm

adam1991 wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:24 pm reason #437 why if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

More and more every day I'm afraid to touch it.
I somewhat agree with your sentiment but... I've updated my EPG123 "almost" every time Gary posts a new version and the only hiccup I've experienced was of my own making, not EPG123's. I've been using it for a few years since either v1.0.1 or 1.0.2 and I'm currently running v1.3.2.10. The last error I experienced was on December 6th and it had to do with a failure to reach the Schedules Direct server because my network was being wonky.

Code: Select all

EPG123 Log Parser (and Report Generator) - v 1.7.5 (64 bit)
Report Created on 12/24/2019 at 09:29:49
================================================================
[12/6/2019 12:15:33 AM] [ERROR] Failed to complete request. Exiting
[12/6/2019 12:15:33 AM] [ERROR] Did not receive a response from Schedules Direct for Md5s of  96 station's daily schedules. (0:00:00:18.8090758)
[12/6/2019 12:15:33 AM] [ERROR] Problem occurred during getMd5ScheduleEntries(). Exiting.
[12/6/2019 12:15:33 AM] [ERROR] Failed to create MXF file. Exiting.

===== QUERY INFORMATION (Predefined) ===========================
Logs used:		trace.log ONLY
Search String:		[ERROR]
Date Range:		11/02/2019 thru 12/24/2019 (53 days)
Total results found:	4
Query time:		04 seconds
And for the entire rest of the year I only had nine errors, six of which were attributable to being unable to contact Schedules Direct. Even so, these were resolved on their own without any interaction by me.

Code: Select all

EPG123 Log Parser (and Report Generator) - v 1.7.5 (64 bit)
Report Created on 12/24/2019 at 09:41:16
================================================================
[2/8/2019 12:17:43 AM] [ERROR] SD API WebException Thrown. Message: The remote server returned an error: (500) Internal Server Error. , Status: ProtocolError
[2/9/2019 12:15:09 AM] [ERROR] Failed token request. code: 3000 , message: Server offline for maintenance. , datetime: 2019-02-09T07:15:07Z
[3/27/2019 12:22:36 AM] [ERROR] The operation has timed out.
[7/25/2019 12:15:13 AM] [ERROR] SD API WebException Thrown. Message: The remote server returned an error: (500) Internal Server Error. , Status: ProtocolError
[10/6/2019 12:15:23 AM] [ERROR] Unhandled exception caught from epg123.exe. message: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
[10/8/2019 12:15:20 AM] [ERROR] Unhandled exception caught from epg123.exe. message: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
[10/10/2019 12:15:20 AM] [ERROR] Unhandled exception caught from epg123.exe. message: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
[10/18/2019 12:15:56 AM] [ERROR] Did not receive a response from Schedules Direct for a token request.
[10/21/2019 12:19:57 AM] [ERROR] Did not receive a response from Schedules Direct for  43 generic program descriptions. (0:00:01:43.3629120)

===== QUERY INFORMATION (Predefined) ===========================
Logs used:		trace.log and trace_2019.log
Search String:		[ERROR]
Date Range:		01/01/2019 thru 11/30/2019 (334 days)
Total results found:	9
Query time:		20 seconds
The "Unhandled exceptions" were when I was flip flopping between 1.2.7.0 and 1.2.18.0 because I had done something stupid and these errors were created by me, not EPG123.

Code: Select all

EPG123 Log Parser (and Report Generator) - v 1.7.5 (64 bit)
Report Created on 12/24/2019 at 09:46:04
================================================================
[10/5/2019 12:19:50 AM]  Beginning epg123 client execution. version 1.2.7.0
[10/6/2019 12:15:39 AM]  Beginning epg123 client execution. version 1.2.18.0
[10/7/2019 12:18:48 AM]  Beginning epg123 client execution. version 1.2.7.0
[10/8/2019 12:15:26 AM]  Beginning epg123 client execution. version 1.2.18.10
[10/9/2019 12:19:06 AM]  Beginning epg123 client execution. version 1.2.7.0
[10/10/2019 12:15:29 AM]  Beginning epg123 client execution. version 1.2.18.10

===== QUERY INFORMATION (Predefined) ===========================
Logs used:		trace.log and trace_2019.log
Search String:		client execution. ver
Date Range:		10/05/2019 thru 10/10/2019 (6 days)
Total results found:	6
Query time:		21 seconds
Of course... If yours is running fine, there's no need to update but if you want to... I wouldn't be too anxious about it. ;)

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#35

Post by Space » Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:41 pm

McGary wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:00 am ...
:D :D :D

By the way, I'm very surprised Space isn't on EPG123 -- he/she is very helpful and knowledgeable about it.
Yes, I've been following EPG123 since it's inception. I really don't know all THAT much about it, since I've never actually used it (sorry to say), and my knowledge is based primarily on the postings made here in the forums. But I have always been planning to migrate, so I've been trying to keep track of things, although I know I've forgotten some stuff.

Not to mention that this type of stuff interests me (being a programmer of sorts), so I have a little knowledge on how some of it works, so I was able to make some suggestions for improvements that have been implemented along the way (such as the "Allow NEW flag to override Original Air Date" option and the migration tool, although I don't know if I was the first to suggest those).

Hopefully once I actually start using EPG123, I will be even more helpful here.

I like being helpful, but my real goal is to encourage as many other people to participate as possible so that when I have a problem they will be able to help me! :D

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#36

Post by McGary » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:17 pm

Okay -- but just to eliminate the gender neutrality, are you a he or a she ?? :D :D :D

And with the time for procrastination RAPIDLY coming to a close, when are you going to take the plunge and move to EPG??

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#37

Post by Space » Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:37 am

I'm a "he" and I have to deal with a dying hard drive and perhaps trying to update Win7 with the latest patches (I stopped updating years ago) before I can even look at EPG123.

I hope to start working on this tomorrow or Saturday (maybe even do some stuff tonight if I can find the energy). But to be honest, I'm not really looking forward to it (although the EPG123 stuff is the least of my worries).

You didn't ask, so stop reading if you don't want the details, but...

The way I have my system set up is with 2 large (multi TB) drives. They each have 2 main partitions, a small partition for Windows and a large partition for storing recordings. I can boot off of either drive and have the system working fairly quickly. I normally boot off of drive 1 (Windows partiton) and have WMC save recordings on drive 2 (recordings partition).

I use the second partition of both drives to store recordings (I may move them from one to the other to free space on the recording partition) and I also have offline storage with a lot of past recordings (mostly DRM protected). So while the windows partition on both drives is a clone of the other, the recordings partition on both drives contain completely different recordings. I only cloned the Windows partition infrequently, so they were often months out of date from each other.

The main problem I have right now is that trying to image the Windows partition on drive 1 is failing. This drive has been wonky for a while and I am sure it is only a matter of time before it goes completely. My last image backup of the drive is now from a year ago.

So while I can boot off of drive 2 and be good, it will be booted off of a drive that is 1 year out of date, so DRM for any recording since 1 year ago will not play back, and any Series recordings I created or deleted in the past year will be missing. So I either have to find a way to get a good image of drive 1 and put it on drive 2, or I have to use drive 2 image as-is and copy over stuff from drive 1 so that WMC related stuff will be up to date (DRM licenses file, WMC DB, etc).

I'm hoping for it to go smoothly, but I dread it will not. Plus after this, I will have to replace the bad drive, so more work, but I will probably wait until after the new year to tackle that one (and use a single drive to both boot from and save recordings to for the short term).

My real goal before the new year is to have a Windows partition I can boot off of, with my current license file (will all past DRM protected recordings playable), with my current Series. I want to be able to image this partition so any changes I make (such as installing the latest Windows patches and installing EPG123) can be reverted if there is any problem. I also hope I don't have anything else I forgot about (such as updated scripts and other tools I use on the system) that were not backed up on the year-old image, if that's the case, I have even more work to do.

Anyway, wish me luck. Hopefully I can report success.

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#38

Post by McGary » Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:20 pm

Booting to two different OS drives is definitely NOT something I'd recommend, due to the DRM keys that Windows stores in the PlayReady folder. As I assume you know, the keys for your DRM recordings are stored in C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Playready\mspr.hds. Although you can't image your drive due to some corruption (a good reason to NOT be using that anymore !!), you likely CAN copy that file.

My fear is that you may have two DIFFERENT sets of keys stored in the mspr.hds files on your two different OS partitions -- resulting in a different set of "playable" recordings depending on which disk you boot to. Is this the case? Or do you copy the mspr.hds file before switching to the other OS partition? (thus keeping things in sync).

What I would do in your case is (a) Add an SSD to the setup and put your OS on that. No content, just the OS. I would also get Windows 7 completely up-to-date SOON -- I'm not certain what state Microsoft will maintain Windows Update in after 14 Jan. My assumption is it will still work fine (as it still does, for example, for XP) … it just won't have any new updates. But there's no guarantee of that, so I'd try and get everything done before then. You don't need a large SSD, so it won't cost much => this would be an excellent choice: URL1
What you might want to do ASAP is

(a) pick a time when you have a few hours with no scheduled recordings
(b) add an SSD to the system and restore your most current OS image to that SSD -- disconnecting your other drives after you've got the image restored just as a paranoid safety precaution
(c) do ALL of the pending updates for Windows 7 and get it up-to-date. [I'll post more details on this in a minute]
(d) copy the most current mspr.hds to C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Playready on the new hard drive

You should now be able to shut down; reconnect your other two drives; and boot to the SSD and everything should work fine, although you'll likely have to check your media library settings.

Since you said you "... stopped updating years ago …" you may have to do a few things to get Windows 7 to update -- otherwise it may "hang" in a VERY long loop when you do a check for updates. Depending on just how many "years ago" it's been, some of this may not be necessary (notably the IE update), but here's the general way to get an older Windows 7 system up-to-date:

(a) If you don't already have Internet Explorer 11 installed, you'll need to do that first. You can download it here: URL2

(b) Install KB3020369 … you need to download the appropriate version for your system (32 or 64 bit): URL3

(c) Install the latest version of the Windows Update Agent -- again, get the appropriate version for your system: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... st-version

(d) Install the "Convenience Rollup Update" (again, get the 32 or 64 bit version as needed): https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.co ... =kb3125574

At this point, you could just run Windows Update and get the rest of the update you'll need (there will be a lot) -- but things will go a bit faster if you first install the following KB's (Google each of them in order; download the appropriate version from the update catalog; and then run the installer): KB3138612, KB3145739, KB3172605, KB3179573, KB3185278, and KB3185330

Then run Windows Update and do all of the updates it finds each time until there aren't anymore. I'd do ALL of them -- including the optional ones -- to be sure your system is completely up-to-date as of the final EOL on 14 Jan.

When you're all done, IMAGE the SSD and be sure to save a copy of that image in a safe place. I use Image for Windows: https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image ... d4b52bf51f … but whatever your favorite imaging utility is is fine, as long as you're comfortable with it.

NEVER boot to a 2nd OS drive => especially with the DRM issue. What I would do is setup an automated backup utility (I use Syncback) to copy the C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Playready\mspr.hds file every day to a backup location, so if you ever have to restore your image you'll have the current DRM keys you can copy to the newly restored image.

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#39

Post by McGary » Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:22 pm

When I tried to post the above, it told me I had too many URL's -- you can apparently only have 3 URL's in a post. So I changed the first 3 URL's to URL1, URL2, and URL3 … which are the following links:

URL1 https://www.newegg.com/crucial-mx500-50 ... 6820156173

URL2 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/downloa ... x?id=40902

URL3 https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.co ... =kb3020369

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#40

Post by McGary » Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:27 pm

By the way, you could of course do all the updates without changing drives, but given that your current OS drive clearly has issues, I would not do that -- you don't want to get it up-to-date and not be able to image it -- and if you can't image it now, that's likely due to some physical issues with the drive, so you almost certainly couldn't image it later either (in fact, some of the updates may even fail if they encounter the corrupted areas).

I'd definitely get the SSD first -- that'll be a major improvement to your setup.

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