Thought this was an interesting read... What's your take on it?
http://www.engadget.com/2011/12/16/edit ... -to-chang/
newfiend~
What's wrong with TV & what it will take to change it..
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newfiend
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adam1991
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For the most part, agreed.
But the article misses an entire point that must be made: your choice as a consumer is to vote with your feet. If it doesn't serve you, quit paying for it. And that's far easier done than most people think. There are only 24 hours in a day, and in this day and age there is plenty to keep you occupied: a second job to keep food on the table, browsing the web, playing whatever games with your smartphone and its various apps and services (go make yourself the mayor of every address within a twelve block radius, for example), hanging out with friends, etc. Sitting at home in front of a box? If it's easy--and for those of us reading that article, we laugh at his description of how "hard" it is to do a good DVR--then I'll do it, but if it's not, I won't.
Case in point: I got ReplayTV in 2004. For the ten or so years prior to that, I had given up on TV--the commercials were getting obnoxiously long and frequent compared to the 70s and 80s, and frankly I found other things to do that easily filled the time. But my enjoyment of TV didn't wane, so when Replay came into my life--complete with commercial advance--I was set. I started watching TV again. Only this time, it was on *my* terms. (The entertainment industry would say I was stealing from them. Good for them. Say whatever you like.)
Came the demise of analog service and therefore the usefulness of my Replays in March of this year, and I ended up going down the 7MC/Ceton path. But I could AND WOULD have just as easily stopped watching TV altogether. Let the entertainment industry continue to cater to Jed and Jethro and Granny and the rest of the increasingly ignorant out there, who think they *have* to pay $150/month to watch TV. (I still laugh as people "discover" broadcast TV. "You mean it's FREE??? I don't have to pay anyone, and I get FREE hi def???") Trust me, that pool of ignorant yokels and/or people with a buck fifty a month to throw around is getting smaller every day, thanks to the criminals in big business and lobbying and Congress, and not one of us can be FORCED to play the Hollywood entertainment game.
The point is, the broadcast entertainment industry needs to realize that their competition isn't the other channels. It's the whole big world out there, which in the past 20 years has shrunk and become much more available to all of us than ever before. I don't need Hollywood's TV shows or movies coming down that network pipe; I can spend my leisure time using that pipe for many, many other things that don't put a dime in their pockets.
So, vote with your feet. Don't pay. I pay the cableco $81/month for a bunch of channels, including digital and hi-def, plus a huge chunk of bandwidth. It's that cheap because I'm not renting their half-assed equipment for another $50/month. There's no way I would pay $50/month for such inferior equipment that gave such an inferior user experience. If 7MC and Ceton didn't exist, I would have voted with my feet last March after the cableco's transition to digital, and simply quit everything except internet service--and I would not be watching TV.
I would miss Mythbusters, and Person of Interest, and Rocket City Rednecks, and whatever; well, so be it. It's not the end of the world, it's just TV, and I would use that money every month to do something else--rent movies, maybe. Hey Netflix, what kind of concierge service could I get from you if I decided to throw $75/month at you? I bet Netflix would be smart enough to figure out how to take that money and get Hollywood to play ball, if my cableco isn't.
Hollywood is so stuck on the old days and old ways, they can't recognize the real nature of their business and its true competition in the real world. Maybe the consumer can't win or break even, but that's only if they're playing the game. Not playing Hollywood's game is ALWAYS an option, and it's an easier and easier choice to make every year.
But the article misses an entire point that must be made: your choice as a consumer is to vote with your feet. If it doesn't serve you, quit paying for it. And that's far easier done than most people think. There are only 24 hours in a day, and in this day and age there is plenty to keep you occupied: a second job to keep food on the table, browsing the web, playing whatever games with your smartphone and its various apps and services (go make yourself the mayor of every address within a twelve block radius, for example), hanging out with friends, etc. Sitting at home in front of a box? If it's easy--and for those of us reading that article, we laugh at his description of how "hard" it is to do a good DVR--then I'll do it, but if it's not, I won't.
Case in point: I got ReplayTV in 2004. For the ten or so years prior to that, I had given up on TV--the commercials were getting obnoxiously long and frequent compared to the 70s and 80s, and frankly I found other things to do that easily filled the time. But my enjoyment of TV didn't wane, so when Replay came into my life--complete with commercial advance--I was set. I started watching TV again. Only this time, it was on *my* terms. (The entertainment industry would say I was stealing from them. Good for them. Say whatever you like.)
Came the demise of analog service and therefore the usefulness of my Replays in March of this year, and I ended up going down the 7MC/Ceton path. But I could AND WOULD have just as easily stopped watching TV altogether. Let the entertainment industry continue to cater to Jed and Jethro and Granny and the rest of the increasingly ignorant out there, who think they *have* to pay $150/month to watch TV. (I still laugh as people "discover" broadcast TV. "You mean it's FREE??? I don't have to pay anyone, and I get FREE hi def???") Trust me, that pool of ignorant yokels and/or people with a buck fifty a month to throw around is getting smaller every day, thanks to the criminals in big business and lobbying and Congress, and not one of us can be FORCED to play the Hollywood entertainment game.
The point is, the broadcast entertainment industry needs to realize that their competition isn't the other channels. It's the whole big world out there, which in the past 20 years has shrunk and become much more available to all of us than ever before. I don't need Hollywood's TV shows or movies coming down that network pipe; I can spend my leisure time using that pipe for many, many other things that don't put a dime in their pockets.
So, vote with your feet. Don't pay. I pay the cableco $81/month for a bunch of channels, including digital and hi-def, plus a huge chunk of bandwidth. It's that cheap because I'm not renting their half-assed equipment for another $50/month. There's no way I would pay $50/month for such inferior equipment that gave such an inferior user experience. If 7MC and Ceton didn't exist, I would have voted with my feet last March after the cableco's transition to digital, and simply quit everything except internet service--and I would not be watching TV.
I would miss Mythbusters, and Person of Interest, and Rocket City Rednecks, and whatever; well, so be it. It's not the end of the world, it's just TV, and I would use that money every month to do something else--rent movies, maybe. Hey Netflix, what kind of concierge service could I get from you if I decided to throw $75/month at you? I bet Netflix would be smart enough to figure out how to take that money and get Hollywood to play ball, if my cableco isn't.
Hollywood is so stuck on the old days and old ways, they can't recognize the real nature of their business and its true competition in the real world. Maybe the consumer can't win or break even, but that's only if they're playing the game. Not playing Hollywood's game is ALWAYS an option, and it's an easier and easier choice to make every year.
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makryger
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I think the biggest problem is that consumers have so few options in the matter. Usually, only one cable company services an area, one phone company, and one or two satellite companies. And oftentimes, switching to a different company is not an option. So if you really are one of those people who would rather not give up TV, then you are just so limited. This generation of young adults are realizing that they can just stick with internet and get whatever they want that way, but its still rather limited and forces you to sit through commercials again. (And have you noticed how much longer hulu commercials have been getting?) The other problem is that once you choose the company, the average cable customer is still limited to the bundles they set up and the STBs they use. Media center certainly makes the tv experience more bearable, but its not something that will ever be mainstream given the maintenance involved. You're going to get channels you don't watch no matter what. And the channels you aren't subscribed to are going to be in your guide anyways.
About six months before I had to restart my cable agreement, I bought my own cable modem for $30 which ended up saving me probably $50 over those six months. Then when I renewed, the cable company now made their bundles with a Free cable modem included! Only the bundle package was more money, so it wasn't really free- it was just included in the bundle price. When I phoned up to remove their "free" cable modem from my bundle, they refused to credit me anything for using my own modem. That's just one example of how the cable companies have a hold on customers and customers have so little choice in the matter.
Ideally, every part of the process of getting technology onto your tv should be independent- I shouldn't have to rely on the company's own modem or STB or guide or bundles. I should be able to choose what I want and pay for it, from whomever offers the best price. That is what true competition is about. But this has been the model for such a long time, based on an understanding of tv that came way before the digital age, that TV companies cannot think beyond this model.
If I didn't have Media Center, I probably would have ended my subscription to cable a long time ago. When friends see my HTPC, even those who have "cut the cord" say they would love to have a system like mine. While its still tied to the cable companies, its the best we have at the moment, one box, one remote, access to all your content, a guide where you only see the channels you want to see, the ability to control the content you recorded... If only Microsoft could figure out a way to make this mainstream.
About six months before I had to restart my cable agreement, I bought my own cable modem for $30 which ended up saving me probably $50 over those six months. Then when I renewed, the cable company now made their bundles with a Free cable modem included! Only the bundle package was more money, so it wasn't really free- it was just included in the bundle price. When I phoned up to remove their "free" cable modem from my bundle, they refused to credit me anything for using my own modem. That's just one example of how the cable companies have a hold on customers and customers have so little choice in the matter.
Ideally, every part of the process of getting technology onto your tv should be independent- I shouldn't have to rely on the company's own modem or STB or guide or bundles. I should be able to choose what I want and pay for it, from whomever offers the best price. That is what true competition is about. But this has been the model for such a long time, based on an understanding of tv that came way before the digital age, that TV companies cannot think beyond this model.
If I didn't have Media Center, I probably would have ended my subscription to cable a long time ago. When friends see my HTPC, even those who have "cut the cord" say they would love to have a system like mine. While its still tied to the cable companies, its the best we have at the moment, one box, one remote, access to all your content, a guide where you only see the channels you want to see, the ability to control the content you recorded... If only Microsoft could figure out a way to make this mainstream.
My Channel Logos XL: Get your Guide looking good! ~~~~ TunerSalad: Increase the 4-tuner limit in 7MC
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adam1991
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that was my whole point: you evaluate your options, select what you want, then move on and don't look back.So if you really are one of those people who would rather not give up TV
And you HAVE options, including the most powerful one: don't play their game.
By law, you don't have to rely on the cableco's STB. Get thee a Tivo, or Moxi, or whatever.Ideally, every part of the process of getting technology onto your tv should be independent- I shouldn't have to rely on the company's own modem or STB or guide or bundles.
yeppers.....If I didn't have Media Center, I probably would have ended my subscription to cable a long time ago.
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richard1980
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Unfortunately most people don't share your attitude, Adam. Even when the economy went into the toilet, people were losing their homes left and right, unemployment was rising....for the most part, people kept throwing money at the pay TV industry. In Ben's article, he talks about how he jokes that the last 2 bills he would cut off are the internet bill and the electric bill...the electric bill just because electricity is required for the internet connection to work. Well, that's how most of the people in the US feel about TV. Through all of the economic turmoil we went through in the last few years, something like 300,000 (maybe it was 350,000) homes cut the cord. That's it. Out of roughly 100 million pay TV subscribers, only 300,000 of them cut the cord. And how many people lost their jobs, homes, cars, etc? Far more than 300,000. It's clear where pay TV ranks in the priority list.
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adam1991
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That people are stupid and/or make stupid choices, doesn't devalue any choice they didn't make.
If people want to complain about how Hollywood behaves and "rips them off" while simultaneously rewarding Hollywood for their behavior, that's an entirely different topic.
If people want to complain about how Hollywood behaves and "rips them off" while simultaneously rewarding Hollywood for their behavior, that's an entirely different topic.
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STC
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I am fortunate enough to have a TiVo HD and Media Center with an InfiniTV4.adam1991 wrote:Get thee a Tivo
Media Center wins hands down. Saying that the TiVo certainly beats any STB supplied by my cable co (anyone played with Motorola or Pace? Yikes!). It comes in a reasonably close second.
The closest I have come to IP streaming TV is a sniff of Netflix, but here in Canada the catalog is pitiful. Count yourselves lucky America. Whatever solutions you settle with will slowly become my reality. Choose wisely
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adam1991
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The point is, no one is forced to use cableco crap. If you can't/won't use 7MC, you're not stuck with cableco crap.
That 300 million people seem to think they're stuck with cableco crap, doesn't change that they're not.
Glad to know that my 7MC investment wasn't wasted.
That 300 million people seem to think they're stuck with cableco crap, doesn't change that they're not.
Glad to know that my 7MC investment wasn't wasted.
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newfiend
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It's amazing really... I love the point you make about people loosing their homes, cars, etc.. And yet still pay each month for Cable TV and Internet... Priorities much people??... Amazing that people will waste money on luxury items as their lives are falling apart. I have some family like this..I watch as they throw money away like its nothing yet are behind on their house payments... I struggle my a$$ off each month, do what ever I can to make sure all my bills are paid including handing over every dime I get in pay for bills. And I still pay for My Cable subscription and Internet each month. (I do make sure all my bills are paid FIRST though.) The problem I have is trying to find time to WATCH TV. My HDD is full of shows I have missed, Thanks to MC I can catch up on my favorite shows when I do have time off (mostly never) Thank you WMC/Ceton.richard1980 wrote:Unfortunately most people don't share your attitude, Adam. Even when the economy went into the toilet, people were losing their homes left and right, unemployment was rising....for the most part, people kept throwing money at the pay TV industry. In Ben's article, he talks about how he jokes that the last 2 bills he would cut off are the internet bill and the electric bill...the electric bill just because electricity is required for the internet connection to work. Well, that's how most of the people in the US feel about TV. Through all of the economic turmoil we went through in the last few years, something like 300,000 (maybe it was 350,000) homes cut the cord. That's it. Out of roughly 100 million pay TV subscribers, only 300,000 of them cut the cord. And how many people lost their jobs, homes, cars, etc? Far more than 300,000. It's clear where pay TV ranks in the priority list.
As I came into MC a couple years ago people were talking about cutting the cord and moving away from Cable Co's. As I got more into a HTPC I saw all the options available .. Streaming, downloading..The options are many. I honestly thought about it too.. Then the Ceton Company announced the InfiniTV4.. The MC HOLY GRAIL we all needed to get our cable subscriptions into MC. I can honestly say if that Tuner wasn't available today I would probably have cut the cord. Cable Subscriptions here run us about 89-100 bucks a month for what I have. I know I couldn't live without Cable Internet now.. I'm hooked.. the speed .. If you ever used Dial up you know what I mean..lol
But the TV content I enjoy could easily be had in many other ways vs. my cable subscription for TV. I just like having lots of options when I want to watch TV. And now with all the additions coming to the XBOX.. There's even more content to be had soon. It's a tough call for most people. Especially older people like my parents who know no other way to enjoy content than to pay for cable or satellite. They don't have the technological know how to get content in the manner in which we all enjoy... As our Youth grow and learn ..Will things change in the future??..I think so. The landscape has changed, and will continue to do so as time passes. I think we are in a transition period .. where things are going to change eventually. They just haven't figured out how to deliver the content so everyone involved "still gets a paycheck". And as we all know that is getting harder and harder for them to figure out as the youth of today keep getting smarter and smarter and can find ways of getting what most of mainstream America pay for... for free.
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STC
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Cable Co crap rocks, surely!?
I LOVE paying my hundred bucks a month for crap I never watch, but have to record. It's what gives me my fix
I LOVE paying my hundred bucks a month for crap I never watch, but have to record. It's what gives me my fix
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adam1991
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Cableco hardware sucks. But anyone who feeds me Rocket City Rednecks can have a place in my home.
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barnabas1969
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The thing in the article that jumped off the page for me was, "only about 30 minutes of the average seven hours of TV Americans watched in 2010 was time shifted". Really?
First off, is that 7 hours a per-household or per-person average? Who has time to watch TV for 7 hours per day? I get home at 6pm, eat dinner, and have a maximum of 3 hours of TV time, less if I have other stuff to do (and I usually have other stuff to do). The kids on the other hand have more time than I do.
Secondly, only 30 minutes were time-shifted? Really? I've been using a DVR since they were first available in HD in my area back in 2004? I rarely watch live TV except for the news... I LOVE being able to FFWD past the commercials (or use commercial-skipping software on non-copy-protected shows). Who in their right mind doesn't use their DVR for this? And, now that I'm on Media Center with lots of storage space and 8 tuners, I never have to think about conflicts and running out of space.
But even when I was using a 2-tuner DVR with only 20 hours of HD recording space, I hardly ever watched "live" TV. I would usually schedule recordings and then begin watching the show 20-30 minutes after it started so I could skip the commercials!
First off, is that 7 hours a per-household or per-person average? Who has time to watch TV for 7 hours per day? I get home at 6pm, eat dinner, and have a maximum of 3 hours of TV time, less if I have other stuff to do (and I usually have other stuff to do). The kids on the other hand have more time than I do.
Secondly, only 30 minutes were time-shifted? Really? I've been using a DVR since they were first available in HD in my area back in 2004? I rarely watch live TV except for the news... I LOVE being able to FFWD past the commercials (or use commercial-skipping software on non-copy-protected shows). Who in their right mind doesn't use their DVR for this? And, now that I'm on Media Center with lots of storage space and 8 tuners, I never have to think about conflicts and running out of space.
But even when I was using a 2-tuner DVR with only 20 hours of HD recording space, I hardly ever watched "live" TV. I would usually schedule recordings and then begin watching the show 20-30 minutes after it started so I could skip the commercials!
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makryger
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So I think the message is that very very few American's actually have DVRs, and those that do, still may not time shift. (In fact, my parents have a DVR and the only shows that get recorded are the ones that I set up to record- all of two tv shows.) And then I guess that also means that people watch a LOT of TV that doesn't necessarily interfere with a work-day: either getting home from school at 2pm, or being retired, or watching a lot of tv on weekends, like hours and hours of football... so I can see it happening.barnabas1969 wrote:The thing in the article that jumped off the page for me was, "only about 30 minutes of the average seven hours of TV Americans watched in 2010 was time shifted". Really?
First off, is that 7 hours a per-household or per-person average? Who has time to watch TV for 7 hours per day? I get home at 6pm, eat dinner, and have a maximum of 3 hours of TV time, less if I have other stuff to do (and I usually have other stuff to do). The kids on the other hand have more time than I do.
Secondly, only 30 minutes were time-shifted? Really? I've been using a DVR since they were first available in HD in my area back in 2004? I rarely watch live TV except for the news... I LOVE being able to FFWD past the commercials (or use commercial-skipping software on non-copy-protected shows). Who in their right mind doesn't use their DVR for this? And, now that I'm on Media Center with lots of storage space and 8 tuners, I never have to think about conflicts and running out of space.
But even when I was using a 2-tuner DVR with only 20 hours of HD recording space, I hardly ever watched "live" TV. I would usually schedule recordings and then begin watching the show 20-30 minutes after it started so I could skip the commercials!
My Channel Logos XL: Get your Guide looking good! ~~~~ TunerSalad: Increase the 4-tuner limit in 7MC
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richard1980
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I'd like to point out some information I found from Nielsen:
- The average American watched 34 hours 39 minutes of TV per week in Q4 2010
- In Q4 2010, the average American watched 2 hours 21 minutes of timeshifted TV per week
Last edited by richard1980 on Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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STC
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The day we see commercials changing in delivery to somehow counteract time shifted forward skipping or auto detection is the day the majority of the population will have DVRs.
Enjoy it while you can.
Enjoy it while you can.
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barnabas1969
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Is that the average American, or the average American HOUSEHOLD?richard1980 wrote:I'd like to point out some information I found from Nielsen:
I suspect Ben may have used other Nielsen figures to arrive at his conclusion. But I don't put any faith in Nielsen's data anyway. After all, look how well they do in picking what shows stay on TV....
- The average American watched 34 hours 39 minutes of TV per week in Q4 2010
- In Q4 2010, the average American watched 2 hours 21 minutes of timeshifted TV per week
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richard1980
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I'm pretty sure they mean American. They use the word "household" several times in the document, but not in either of those two quotes.
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barnabas1969
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I guess I'm nowhere near "average", then. I skip all the commercials on TV and listen to satellite radio on my 35-45 minute (each way) commute. As a result, I am completely out of touch with advertising. I don't hear commercials in the car, and I don't see commercials at home.
In fact, I was out car shopping a few weeks ago. I was at the Chrysler dealer and told the salesman the criteria for the car I wanted (30+ MPG highway, good rear-seat head/leg room, 4 doors, under $20K). He recommended the Chrysler 200. I had never even heard of a Chrysler 200. The salesman was surprised. Apparently, they've been advertising them pretty heavily on radio and TV. Since then I've found out that the 200 is a redesign of the Sebring. I liked the 200 and bought one, but I had never heard of one before that day.
In fact, I was out car shopping a few weeks ago. I was at the Chrysler dealer and told the salesman the criteria for the car I wanted (30+ MPG highway, good rear-seat head/leg room, 4 doors, under $20K). He recommended the Chrysler 200. I had never even heard of a Chrysler 200. The salesman was surprised. Apparently, they've been advertising them pretty heavily on radio and TV. Since then I've found out that the 200 is a redesign of the Sebring. I liked the 200 and bought one, but I had never heard of one before that day.
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STC
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This is the catch22 of the commercial funded model. After all it's those dollars that pay for the 'quality' of the TV. If everyone skips them, the outcome is inevitable.
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adam1991
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You've just described my life for the last many years.barnabas1969 wrote:I guess I'm nowhere near "average", then. I skip all the commercials on TV and listen to satellite radio on my 35-45 minute (each way) commute. As a result, I am completely out of touch with advertising. I don't hear commercials in the car, and I don't see commercials at home.
I have occasion to call some help desk people in my organization; they're remote, but we're good drinking buddies when I'm up at the corporate complex. We know each other pretty well. One day they started prattling on about "this is Peggy", and all I could do was smile and nod. This went on for a solid year before I stumbled upon a link to a Youtube video of one of the "Hello, this is Peggy" commercials.
Such is the life of those who are happily oblivious to commercials....