Frustrated with ETH 6 tuning and stability issues

[jgagliano1363]

Hi Guys, I decided to buy a new HDTV and since I'm already paying for digital cable for one box, I decided to try the cablecard method and get a Ceton Eth 6. I hemmed and hawed about the Eth 6 vs the HDHR Prime, but decided on the Eth 6 because of the 6 tuners and because it was on sale.

Ok, so I pay for Saturday delivery so I can get everything all setup... I went to the cable store (Time warner), and got my cablecard and a tuning adapter on Friday so i was all set for when it came, I was excited! Got the Ceton Eth 6 last Sat and found out it came with the wrong USB cable... Good luck finding one because they use a very rare and weird USB connection... So since it was memorial day weekend, good luck getting a ticket answered, so I submitted one and got a response from Ceton saying they were sorry and would send one. I got it and thought great. Called TWC to activate the cablecard and found out that the cablecard was bad... SIGH... go to the cable store and got another one. This one worked, but didn't have a TAR file and they had to email Cisco to get one, which took another day... Finally, activated the card and then the tuning adapter wouldn't work. They finally got it working.

Fast forward to WMC.... Seems that it works, then it doesn't, then it works, then it doesn't. I did some tests and scrolled through some channels and did one channel at a time, when I had scrolled through 6 channels and on the 7th channel I got a message in WMC that there was no tuners avl to tune to the next channel... I wasn't recording anything! It seems that the tuner wouldn't release the channel after the channel was changed. So, I updated the Ceton to the latest beta firmware and unplugged it for a bit and back in and then everything seemed pretty stable, I was reasonable optimistic at this point.

Fast forward to today... I decided to really test this thing out and do a series of recordings. I set WMC to record a bunch of stuff in "series", like record all of Will & Grace (just wanted to test the series function). It finished recording the first episode, but didn't do anything for the ones in succession (they were running a marathon). When I checked, there was no other recordings, but WMC said that it was recording it, but nothing other than the original one I was watching. Additionally, when I check the Ceton webpage, it shows the "One" tuner as playing and tuned to channel 172, the channel it was supposed to be recording. No matter what I do, i cannot get the Ceton to release the channel on "One". Even if i tune to 172 and check the Ceton page it shows up as being tuned on number "Four" on channel 172.

All in all I'm so frustrated with WMC and Ceton. I bought it on Amazon with Prime, so I can return it. I've been thinking of just returning it and going with an over the air solution instead. I like to consider myself smarter than the average person as have worked in IT for the past 18 years, but this stuff seems buggy as hell. I've seen reports on some of the issues I'm seeing as: reboot the Ceton, reboot your computer, restart WMC, restart WMC services... really? I've been using two Hauppauge 2250's in my media center running BeyondTV for years and maybe have to restart the system once every 3 months, if that. If i have to restart this thing on a daily basis, what's the point?

So the question is:
1. Is there a easy fix for releasing the tuners once the get "stuck"?
2. Should I return this thing and get the HDHR Prime and would it eliminate these headaches of constantly restarting everything all the time?
3. Just go OTA and cancel cable. (I've been so frustrated the last week, this is what I've been considering, but since I'm only paying $2.50 for a cable card, I figured I'd give it the good old college try and see if I could get the Ceton to work.

Sorry for writing a book, but this is my first experience with Ceton and WMC, and I have to admit, it's left a very bad taste in my mouth.

Thanks!

Jack

[mldenison]

I can't address your hardware issues.

As far as recording a series. If you set to record a series at say 8 PM on Tuesday, WMC will record subsequent shows at 8 PM on the following Tuesdays. You'd have to tell WMC to record each show in its time slot during the day. While the TV network runs a marathon of shows, they're individual shows as far as WMC is concerned.

If you want only new shows or new and reruns (in the time slot you've selected), there's a setting in the recording details within WMC.

[tzr916]

WMC + cable card + tuner + tuning adapters = > not plug and play out of the box by any means. It will be a struggle to get the whole thing figured out and working. WMC PC cable card is not for the average joe. You need to spend time with it. You need to read all the information here. You need the tuner and the PC plugged into a gigabit switch (don't use a router), and then look at your cable RF signal levels in the Ceton webpage for each tuner, then check what version firmware you have on the ETH... then... then...

[jgagliano1363]

Ok. Thanks for the info about the series, I'll take another look at that part.

Tz916: Thanks for your input. This has been my first experience with using a cablecard. My network is all gigabit all the way around using Cisco switches, so there is no bandwidth issues there. One of the main reasons I got the Eth version was to be able to use WMC on multiple machines. I gather that this is a "process" and that everything takes time to work the bugs. I talked to TWC about the signal levels and they are slightly above average from what they said, so that is good. I have the Eth 6 and the tuning adapter coming right off the main cable tap using a new cable splitter and new cable. The FW i'm running is: ceton_infinitv_beta_fw_14_4_6_21.

Thank you all for your input. I was just very frustrated Will give it (another) try.

Jack

[tzr916]

What are the actual Temp, SNR, and Signal Levels of each tuner when you have at least 3 tuners active? For best operation you want temps to be lower than 45C, SNR around 36-38, and Signal Levels as close to zero as possible (-6dBmV to +6dBmV should be ok).

Trying to use the tuners with multiple PC's is beyond me. I suggest starting with one PC doing all the tuning/recording and just sharing the files/folders with the other PCs. If you need live Tv/copy protected content in other rooms then use extenders.

[jgagliano1363]

Hi Tzr916 (apologies for not getting your name right before),

Here are the results:

Tuner 3:
Green, Playing Channel 165, Signal Level 7.7 dBmV, SNR 37.4 dB, Temp 62.3 C

Tuner 4:
Green, Playing Channel 168, Signal Level 3.4 dBmV, SNR 36.2 dB, Temp 62.3 C

Tuner 5:
Green, Playing Channel 163, Signal Level 7.6 dBmV, SNR 37.1 dB, Temp 62.3 C

When the tuner DOES tune a station, the quality is great, never any pixilation or anything like that. I have noticed that the FIRST time I go to tune something, it will tune it with a black screen for about 2 seconds with audio and then its just a black screen. I have to hit STOP at the bottom of WMC, then go back to the guide and hit the program again and everything will tune fine after that.

I was thinking after i wrote my rant last night that even though i had updated the Ceton device and its FW and rebooted the device, i hadn't rebooted my tuning adaptor. So late last night i rebooted the tuning adaptor first, then the Ceton, then my computer and everything seems to be working fine at the moment.

In regards to multiple PC's on the network... I firmly believe in traditional troubleshooting... take all the complexities out first and then go from there... That would be an end goal, if i make it that far lol. For now though, I am looking into extenders and having one "server" machine so to speak and just using the extenders to grab live tv, programs, etc. I use Plex for everything else.

The only thing that concerns me a little bit is the temperatures, i did notice a couple days ago that they were in the 65 C range. The Ceton box isn't confined or blocked from fresh air. Maybe I should get a laptop cooler and stick it under it, hmm not a bad idea. heh. I'll try that out later today.

Thanks for the help as always. have a good weekend!

Jack

EDIT: With the Ceton device sitting on top of my laptop cooler with two fans, it now reads 38.1 C. Almost a 30 C reduction in temp! Going to try this method all day and see what's up.

[barnabas1969]

I can't address your hardware issues.

As far as recording a series. If you set to record a series at say 8 PM on Tuesday, WMC will record subsequent shows at 8 PM on the following Tuesdays. You'd have to tell WMC to record each show in its time slot during the day. While the TV network runs a marathon of shows, they're individual shows as far as WMC is concerned.

If you want only new shows or new and reruns (in the time slot you've selected), there's a setting in the recording details within WMC.

I can't help you with your Ceton tuner because I've never owned an ETH. But I can say that what mldenison wrote above is absolutely wrong. If you scheduled a "series" recording and told it to record "new and reruns", then it will record all of the shows in a marathon, as long as they all have unique episode titles in the guide.

[mldenison]

I can't help you with your Ceton tuner because I've never owned an ETH. But I can say that what mldenison wrote above is absolutely wrong. If you scheduled a "series" recording and told it to record "new and reruns", then it will record all of the shows in a marathon, as long as they all have unique episode titles in the guide.

I'll have to look to see if there is an ignore list here.

[erkotz]

If you haven't already, I would recommend that you upgrade to our latest beta firmware release. Aside from that, have you opened a support ticket with us?

[jgagliano1363]

Well i figured out the "series" issue, and you are right, it will record everything if it was set to "new and rerun". The issue i was having before hasn't appeared again since the FW update.

Also to the Ceton reply; I have not submitted a ticket yet. I was trying to resolve my issues myself and check everything out before submitting one. If you had seen my prior posts, you would have seen that I had already updated the FW to the latest beta release, but thanks for the suggestion anyway.

Things do seem a bit more stable now, however, i still need to tune to a channel first, get a black screen for 2 seconds with audio, then hit stop to stop the tuner, then it's ready to tune/record/whatever. that part is quite annoying and haven't figured out how to resolve it yet. My biggest issue with that is if I forget to do it, then WMC will record a blank screen and complain that there is no signal, but really there is (and don't tell me is a signal issue, arg.). So I may still submit a ticket, but I'm waiting on a media center extender to get here to see if it is just my computer or if it happens with an extender as well, if it does, i'll submit a ticket then.

Thanks for all the suggestions/help so far guys.

Jack

[tzr916]

i still need to tune to a channel first, get a black screen for 2 seconds with audio, then hit stop to stop the tuner, then it's ready to tune/record/whatever. that part is quite annoying and haven't figured out how to resolve it yet. My biggest issue with that is if I forget to do it, then WMC will record a blank screen and complain that there is no signal, but really there is (and don't tell me is a signal issue, arg.)....

Next time don't press stop. press alt+enter. what happens?

run wmc in window mode not fullscreen. still get black screen?

[cybrsage]

Part of the problem might be how hot you are running your input signals - that is a very high dB level. If you have a splitter, try attenuating your signal with it. The standard dual splitter will reduce your signal by 3.5dB and could help you out. If it makes your problem worse you simply remove it.

[jgagliano1363]

i still need to tune to a channel first, get a black screen for 2 seconds with audio, then hit stop to stop the tuner, then it's ready to tune/record/whatever. that part is quite annoying and haven't figured out how to resolve it yet. My biggest issue with that is if I forget to do it, then WMC will record a blank screen and complain that there is no signal, but really there is (and don't tell me is a signal issue, arg.)....

Next time don't press stop. press alt+enter. what happens?

run WMC in window mode not fullscreen. still get black screen?

OK, so I run WMC in windowed mode anyway, so i did the alt-enter like you suggested and it switched to full screen and the picture AND sound came back without hitting stop. so maybe it has something to do with running in windowed mode.

Also, the high signal level's aren't on all channels. for some reason the lower channel numbers seem to be -0.3, etc.

Thanks again for the help! I ordered my first WMC extender off ebay last night, let's see if i can get this thing running in production!

PS. I also was reading some horror stories about backing up DRM and restoring DRM, so I've scheduled my system to take a full image once a week, that way in case something happens, i can always re-image. I was reading that even if you have an old image it sometimes would not work for restoring DRM because the DRM files change on a monthy basis (can't remember where i read that). So i figure if i image it weekly, i'll be good.

Thanks again.

Jack

[tzr916]

OK, so I run WMC in windowed mode anyway, so i did the alt-enter like you suggested and it switched to full screen and the picture AND sound came back without hitting stop. so maybe it has something to do with running in windowed mode...

Why do you run in windowed mode?

Did you ever run the WMC "configure your Tv or monitor"? needs to be run in fullscreen, if your connected with hdmi to a 1080p Tv then choose 1080p60, be sure to finish the config wizard all the way...

[jgagliano1363]

OK, so I run WMC in windowed mode anyway, so i did the alt-enter like you suggested and it switched to full screen and the picture AND sound came back without hitting stop. so maybe it has something to do with running in windowed mode...

Why do you run in windowed mode?

Did you ever run the WMC "configure your Tv or monitor"? needs to be run in fullscreen, if your connected with hdmi to a 1080p Tv then choose 1080p60, be sure to finish the config wizard all the way...

I did and it did put it in full screen, but the problem with it being attached to a computer with multiple screens is that the full screen mode, i can't release the mouse on that screen... anyway, now that i know it is my problem and not WMC's, i'll just deal with it. i have purchased two media center extenders to run tv's in the house, so they will not have this issue.

Thanks again.

Jack

[barnabas1969]

PS. I also was reading some horror stories about backing up DRM and restoring DRM, so I've scheduled my system to take a full image once a week, that way in case something happens, i can always re-image. I was reading that even if you have an old image it sometimes would not work for restoring DRM because the DRM files change on a monthy basis (can't remember where i read that). So i figure if i image it weekly, i'll be good.

In addition to creating image backups, you can also backup the file C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Playready\mspr.hds daily (or even more frequently). After you restore an image backup, also restore the most recent copy of that file, and you'll have all the most recent DRM keys. I believe that new keys are written to this file for each recording, not monthly.

[jgagliano1363]

PS. I also was reading some horror stories about backing up DRM and restoring DRM, so I've scheduled my system to take a full image once a week, that way in case something happens, i can always re-image. I was reading that even if you have an old image it sometimes would not work for restoring DRM because the DRM files change on a monthy basis (can't remember where i read that). So i figure if i image it weekly, i'll be good.

In addition to creating image backups, you can also backup the file C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Playready\mspr.hds daily (or even more frequently). After you restore an image backup, also restore the most recent copy of that file, and you'll have all the most recent DRM keys. I believe that new keys are written to this file for each recording, not monthly.

thanks for the tip! i added the whole playread directory to my crashplan, so it will back it up every 30m

Also, i think maybe my signal might be too much (i hate to admit when i'm wrong, but maybe lol), i can't tune to channel 63, it keeps saying no signal, but i have signal in other parts of the house for that channel... i'm going to change the cables tomorrow and see how things work after that. my first media center extender arrives tomorrow so i'm kinda excited about that.

thanks again.

jack

[jgagliano1363]

well that's odd... for some reason i can't edit my previous post... just wanted to say that i plugged the Ceton back into my new splitter which says it outputs at -7dbm, so it brought my signal on most things ranging from -3 to +4 now, i did notice that a couple channels that had issues before were at +10 or higher. so thank you everyone so far for your input.

[jgagliano1363]

FYI, most of the hardware issues have been solved. Thanks to all that helped.

A side note... My linksys extenders were constantly freezing up... I found a couple solutions and causes for this:

1. ESET firewall is a........ (lets say pain) to configure with WMC... I ended up moving WMC main server to another computer to act as the server, which solved firewall connectivity issues.
2. Samsung Galaxy S4........ damn gallery app and its associates... I have my phone rooted and used titanium backup to freeze the default gallery app, the video player, and the camera, and replaced them all with different apps from the android play store. This has solved almost all hangups with the extenders. Basically anything on the GS4 that is stock that uses DLNA will cause the extender to freeze up solid.

I found the tread here:

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... f=8&t=5311