WMC8 incorrectly reporting no signal for a single channel

[Frantic]

I have had a PC running WMC on Windows 7 for years, but recently the OS drive failed and I had to reinstall windows. I installed Windows 8.1 with the Media Center Pack and got everything set up again. Prior to all of this, I had a solid signal on all of my major channels (4.1, 5.1, 7.1, 11.1, 13.1), and never had any reception issues. On WMC 8.1, the TV Signal Setup shows solid signals for all but 7.1, which shows up as no signal. When I schedule a recording on that channel, WMC pops up a box indicating that there is no signal on that channel (it does this 4 times, which is how many tuners I have). If I switch to that channel to watch live TV it works perfectly - no signal issues at all. I have two Hauppauge WTV-HVR-2250 cards in the PC, but have also tried hooking up a USB tuner with the same results. I have a large antenna in my attic, but have also tried a Mohu Leaf antenna without any improvement.

So to me, it seems like WMC 8.1 has a configuration issue where it thinks it can't get a signal on channel 7.1 when in fact it can. WMC7 was fine with channel 7.1 for 4+ years. Any ideas?

[barnabas1969]

If only I had a dollar for every time I answer this same problem...

Go to the guide, arrow to select the problem channel (7.1). Press the left arrow to select the box where the channel number is displayed. Press OK/Enter. Go to "Edit channel", and then "Edit sources". Look for duplicate entries (so, since you have 4 tuners, you will see a multiple of 4 sources, probably 8).

The ones near the bottom are probably your problem, because Media Center starts using sources at the bottom when it records, and from the top when you watch live TV.

Un-check the box on the left side of the incorrect sources, and save your settings.

[Frantic]

I owe you a dollar, but I'll give you more if you PM me a Paypal address. You saved me from reinstalling Win7 this weekend. Thanks!

[barnabas1969]

You don't owe me anything. I was just kidding. This topic comes up frequently.

[rpammons]

My problem is similar, except it is ALL channels. I have tried what you suggested and worked for the other person, but it didn't' work for me. My problem surfaced about the time his did; I wonder whether a Windows update I did between the last success and the first failure may have caused a problem, or switching from Norton to McAfee for my virus protection.

When I go to edit source, it shows two entries for each channel, one associated with each tuner. There are no extra copies.

The long version:
I have been recording using WMC just fine for a couple of months. However it started not recording a few days ago- just leaving a 512KB file with the name, but no video, and apparently does not think it has an input signal.
When I try to watch live TV on WMC to see if WMC is getting the signal, I get the error message "Service Is Not Available. There is currently no TV signal detected for this channel. Channel may be temporarily off the air. Try again later." When a show was supposed to start, the same error message popped up that there was no signal, so it would not be recorded (paraphrasing - the error message was only up for a few seconds).
The TV station(s) are on the air. I am using SiliconDust Homerun ATSC Digital TV tuners (two) and they test out fine. I can watch live TV on them. WMC reports that their signal strength is good. to excellent on all channels.
I ran "Settings/TV/TV Signal/setup TV Signal" on WMC again. It examined TV signals, found the tuners. I configured WMC with the tuners and got a very fast response that WMC was configured with the tuners.
No change - no live TV. I then went into setup again and checked Digital TV antenna signal strength. Good on all channels.
Still no Live TV and the same error message.
I ran "scan for more channels, but it ended with "no channels found" (not "No additional channels found").
I don't know what to do next and would appreciate any help.
Posts on the tuners website didn't help. I tried several of their suggestions (remove WMC eHome files since they might be corrupted), but nothing changed. Spent about two hours with a Microsoft person on my machine. He did a lot of things but nothing has changed. I'll go back for another attempt tomorrow.

[barnabas1969]

@rpammons: In one place you say that you cannot watch live TV, but in another place you say that you can watch live TV. So, which is it? Or... are you saying that live TV works in the Quick TV application, but not in Media Center?

[rpammons]

Sorry for not being clearer. I have my antennas directly feeding the TV and the two HD Homerun tuners in parallel. I can watch the TV. I can also watch the "QuickTV" option on the HD Homerun app. What I cannot do is watch "Live TV" on WMC whether through the "LiveTV" button or clicking on a program in the guide, or record using WMC.

[barnabas1969]

It sounds like Media Center is using the wrong actual channel numbers (actual vs virtual). Go to the following link, enter your ZIP code, and compare the actual channel numbers listed on the website to the actual channel numbers in the Edit Sources menu in Media Center.

If the ones listed in Media Center don't match those listed on the website, then that's the problem. Some people are able to run TV Setup in Media Center using a nearby ZIP code, and this solves the problem. Others have to manually edit each channel so that it uses the correct "actual" channel number.

Here's the link:

http://www.silicondust.com/support/channels/

[dmagerl]

I would also not let it do a scan.

When setting up TV, and it gets to the "scanning for signals" phase, just click cancel. It then gives you the option to set things up manually without doing the scan.

First, it's quicker than doing the scan. Second, it sometimes gets different OTA info from the scan than what downloads from the internet and that causes problems.

The only problem without doing a scan is that you'll miss all the low power stations and others not listed in the guide. That's not a big deal in my opinion. You can and them after things are up and running if you want them.

[rpammons]

I set all the channels in WMC to match the "actual" numbers on the web site (also what the HD Homerun tuners list as "tune" rather than "guide number"). I did not re-do the scan - I just edited the channels by right-clicking the channel box in the guide/edit channel and then changed the channel number to match. Saved after each channel. WMC shows the channels as xx.x (the guide/virtual channel naming convention), not xx-x (the actual channel naming convention).

Both the HD Homerun QuickTV and the TV set (the signal for it is not going through the tuners) use the guide/virtual numbers for tuning/selecting channels.

Bottom line with WMC: still getting the same error message, so I went back and tried the manual scan.

I clicked cancel and chose the option to set up manually. I then selected that I wanted to set up the TV signal manually, clicked next, clicked "antenna" and tehn next. It took me to the screen asking if I wanted to use the two tuners it found (they are the correct tuners). It required me to select at least one. I selected both and then "next". It said it would use that to set-up, spun for about five seconds and said it was successful...

When I went back and checked for channels again (using the guide or live tv on WMC), still got the service is not available error message. The guide now shows the virtual numbers, no longer the actual. The digital TV antenna signal strength option under TV signal setup shows strong signals on all channels.

I also get an odd effect sometimes (not always): when I click on a show in the guide on WMC or on Live TV in WMC, I get a windows explorer window pop up taking me to one of my external hard drives (not where I file my recordings...).

[rpammons]

Think it might be the firewall. Follwing advice from foxwood, I did the following:

"Thanks. I wondered about that. I opened the McAfee app and went to the home page and clicked on "web & e-mail protection". It showed the Windows firewall as on. No information on the McAfee personal firewall. The McAfee help function and what actually showed on the page were very different.They seem to have dumbed it down.

I went to the Windows firewall advanced settings and it shows the HD Homerun apps (Config, Config CLI, QuickTV and Setup) as enabled. However, it still didn't work

I then disabled the firewall on my private network (just my router, I presume, which is encrypted). Then the WMC worked again.

Is it a problem to leave the firewall off on my private network? It is still on for the public network. Should I change the profile for the HD HOmerun apps to private only (they are now listed as "All")?"

[rpammons]

Thanks for all the help. I'll work on the firewall now. I think that the current versions of the HD Homerun and WMC must use the virtual/guide numbers, at least for what the user can see. After getting the firewall set and redoing the channels, they are all set to the virtual numbers and seem to be working. Thanks again.

[barnabas1969]

I wasn't telling you to change the virtual numbers (the numbers you see in the guide). I was telling you to change the actual channel that gets tuned, by adding them manually. But it doesn't matter since it was your firewall. This is why most people here will recommend to just use the default Windows firewall and Microsoft Security Essentials instead of others like Norton or McAfee. In my opinion, Norton is the biggest pain in the butt of all the different anti-malware packages out there, and both Norton and McAfee are huge resource hogs.

[Mike88]

If only I had a dollar for every time I answer this same problem...

Go to the guide, arrow to select the problem channel (7.1). Press the left arrow to select the box where the channel number is displayed. Press OK/Enter. Go to "Edit channel", and then "Edit sources". Look for duplicate entries (so, since you have 4 tuners, you will see a multiple of 4 sources, probably 8).

The ones near the bottom are probably your problem, because Media Center starts using sources at the bottom when it records, and from the top when you watch live TV.

Un-check the box on the left side of the incorrect sources, and save your settings.

I have 2 dual tuner cards for total of 4 OTA tuners. I was losing the signal on one of my PBS stations which was my weakest station. I figured it must be the big tree in front of the house which keeps getting bigger. There was a coax splitter that wasn't really needed so I removed it & the PBS station comes in nice & clear.

But I lost CBS2 which is on actual channel 12.1. I could not watch it nor record it. I re-scanned but it made no difference. I went to "Edit Sources" and noticed the first 4 tuners were 12.1 and the duplicate 4 were on 26.1. I have no idea where the 26.1 came from. AFAIK CBS2 HD was never on that channel. And if it was why the heck did it decide to become active now.

Anyway I unchecked the lower duplicate source channels & all is well. But I have a couple questions.
1) Why are there duplicates in the first place?
2) How do you actually edit the source & change it from 26.1 to 12.1?

Some time ago ABC was changing actual channels & I don't recall if 4 tuners or 8 tuners had the old channel number. But I looked & all 8 have the new channel. That means I must have been able to change either 4 or 8 tuners to the proper channel number, or maybe I did a re-scan. However when I did a re-scan tonight CBS2 still had 4 of the wrong channels. Now I'm wondering how the heck I changed any of them.

Note - I commented in this thread because it seemed relevant, however I'm using WMC7.

[Mike88]

Now I'm more confused. I tried different things to change the above mentioned 26.1 to 12.1. I tried to split & hopefully delete but that didn't work. I now have 6 entries for CBS under "Edit Channels". If I go to "Edit Sources" some of these have 4 tuners & some have only 1. I got the original CBS to display only 4 tuners, however it's back to displaying 8 tuners again.

How do I delete the 5 extra CBS channels that show up under "Edit Channels"?

[barnabas1969]

To fix your problem, go through the TV Setup wizard as if you were setting up TV in Media Center for the first time. When it's finished, go to Edit Sources and disable the incorrect channels. Stop worrying about how to delete them.

You will need to disable them again every time you scan for new channels. If you only use OTA tuners, then it is very unlikely that new channels will appear, so you won't need to scan for channels very often.

The reason the extra channel 26.1 exists is because it actually exists. It's just too far from you, or it's in the wrong direction compared to how your antenna is pointed. The Media Center database contains information that says you should be able to receive 26.1, and that may be true... if you have a big enough antenna which is pointed in the direction of 26.1.

TV stations often have repeaters. A repeater is simply another transmitter, usually on a different frequency from the main transmitter. They build repeaters in locations which are intended to serve households that can't reliably receive the signal from the main transmitter.

[dmagerl]

As barnabas said, just uncheck those sources and they wont be used.

A little bit of history:
When WBBM went digital they were originally on ch3. But in those days, ch3 was a common frequency that people used with set-top cable boxes to connect to their analog TVs. So WBBM wiped out all those set top boxes in the area immediately around their transmitter. They had to lower their power output and nobody could receive them.

Later they moved to ch12 using WTTW's old analog antenna tuned to ch12 on top of Sears Tower. Still no one could hear them. I think they got a slight increase in power from the FCC and things became better but people out in the boonies still couldnt hear them and people close to the transmitter couldnt hear them due to the severe urban RF environment.

So they decided to install another transmitter, low power, on ch 26, this time on UHF to fill in the coverage in the downtown area. People outside of Chicago were never meant to receive it. It recently went on the air and WMC is including it in the guide. But it doesnt help the people in the boonies who still cant receive WBBM.

But WMC sorts the guide by call sign and since both transmitters, ch12 and ch26, share the same call sign, they get lumped together in the same guide listing. You just have to disable the ch26 sources every time you set up WMC. WLS used to have the same problem when they were running both a VHF and UHF transmitter. Eventually they moved to only the UHF channel and the problem stopped. WBBM however has elected not to do that, so at this time its stuck running two channels forever.

[Mike88]

Before I even get to "Edit Sources" there are now 6 listings for CBS / WBBM. And on each one of those I can "Edit Sources". Going by memory there are probably 18 occurrences of channel 12.1 and 4 occurrences of channel 26.1. I realize I can uncheck 5 of those listings from appearing in guide. But I am concerned that even though the guide would not display multiple instances of WBBM, each tuner would still have multiple occurrences of 12.1 assigned to them & that this might cause some kind of conflict. IOW channel 12.1 is assigned to tuner #1 six times.

Is running the TV Setup wizard going to wipe out any re-labeling of channels that I did? What about all the scheduled recordings & history?

I realize that WBBM digital was on channel 3 before it ended end up on 12.1, but I somehow missed the channel 26 addition. But I wonder why all of sudden things acted up just because I removed a splitter. FWIW after creating all the duplicates & having 26.1 show up again under my primary CBS2 everything works just like it used to even though 26.1 is checked. Of course I unchecked those just to be safe.

[barnabas1969]

Is running the TV Setup wizard going to wipe out any re-labeling of channels that I did?

Yes. But it sounds like you've messed it up sufficiently that TV Setup is your best option.

What about all the scheduled recordings & history?

TV Setup won't hurt your existing recordings, recording schedule, or history.