Opinion - The reason Ceton won't fix Echo

[allensbad]

I opened a support ticket with Ceton in regards to the issues I am having with Echo, I received this response about a week later.

Hi Allen. The Echo is very much alive. It supports the official specs that have been published since we launched it last year (please refer to the Echo product page at http://cetoncorp.com/products/echo/ for details). The Echo is based on proprietary extender code licensed from Microsoft, which severely limits our ability to change or extend the platform. One of the goals of adding Android was to have much more flexibility in extending the features and capabilities than is possible with the Microsoft code itself. Unfortunately enabling Android proved not to be possible despite a massive efforts on our part.

We’ll continue to sell and support Echo as a Media Center Extender. It’s remains the best solution available for anyone that wants the core Extender feature set of whole-home TV, DVR, movies, music and video in a great looking, small, silent, power-efficient device.

Thanks,
Ceton


So there you have the answer to why Ceton has done nothing to fix the Echo, as far as they see it it’s working as advertised.

Moderator note: Title edited for greater clarity

[kingwr]

"It supports the official specs that have been published since we launched it last year"

Of course it does (except for the Web browser and the playback of WMV files). Nowhere in the official specs do they say the device will be stable or playback the supported file types without stutter.

[STC]

I opened a support ticket with Ceton in regards to the issues I am having with Echo, I received this response about a week later.

Viewing the looking glass from the other side, that really doesn't mean Ceton can't tweak their SoC code to work more fluidly within the existing constraints of the MS extender code. That is, if their echosystem (points?) can be massaged further into submission.

Pure conjecture and yet more speculation. Next Please.

[Undutchable]

Pure conjecture and yet more speculation. Next Please.

Oké, cut the crap, and tell us something about the future of Echo developing.


FWIW, I'm pretty happy regarding TV-functionality, sometimes a restart of the channel, but mostly fine for me and the mrs.

[STC]

...tell us something about the future of Echo developing.

I know as much as all of you, as do the rest of the TGB staff, and don't have any information to give sorry.

[Dean L. Surkin]

The Echo is based on proprietary extender code licensed from Microsoft, which severely limits our ability to change or extend the platform.

That raises an interesting issue: if Ceton were to change the MS code enough to eliminate stutter and other problems, would it violate their license with MS?

Another issue: if the extender code must be licensed from MS, and if it's the limiting factor in playback quality, then a hypothetical Echo2 won't solve the problems. It seems like TiVo, which developed its own platform and DRM implementation, did the right thing by not buying into the Windows echosystem [sic] (shout out to STC for coining this new word).

[STC]

shout out to STC

Big up. Booyakasha

[ucfknight]

The Echo is based on proprietary extender code licensed from Microsoft, which severely limits our ability to change or extend the platform.

That raises an interesting issue: if Ceton were to change the MS code enough to eliminate stutter and other problems, would it violate their license with MS?

The stutter has nothing to do with the extender code. It has everything to do with the underpowered, flawed chip that Ceton decided to use.

[richard1980]

if Ceton were to change the MS code enough to eliminate stutter and other problems

If other extenders implement the exact same code, yet they don't stutter, then the stuttering can't be caused by the code.

would it violate their license with MS?

That depends on the license agreement. If the agreement requires using the code exactly as-is, then modifying the code would violate the agreement.

[Sammy2]

The Echo is based on proprietary extender code licensed from Microsoft, which severely limits our ability to change or extend the platform.

That raises an interesting issue: if Ceton were to change the MS code enough to eliminate stutter and other problems, would it violate their license with MS?

The stutter has nothing to do with the extender code. It has everything to do with the underpowered, flawed chip that Ceton decided to use.

Do you have a source?

Define, "stutter" more specifically. When does it occur? What video format is it?

I have a pretty good inkling through my own personal use that the only stutter that occurs is only on 24fps content that needs to be converted to 60fps and what is seen is actually 3:2 pull down judder. Everything else is buttery smooth for me.

[lithium630]

Most video plays fine for me. Most of my movies are WTV h264 (some mpeg2). The only issue I have is MP4 steams of Revision3. There is still some judder and the audio and video are not always in sync. Initially it did not work at all so there has been some improvement.

[adam1991]

I do know that the audio lags the video by a tiny but noticeable amount.

[Dean L. Surkin]

Define, "stutter" more specifically. When does it occur? What video format is it?

All my files are native WMC recordings (*.WTV). Whenever we start watching a show, after about one minute, the video freezes and audio stops. About 30 seconds later, the video and audio resume (skipping content slightly). It's a gigabit network with professional CAT6 wiring throughout the house, and all network tests report excellent performance.

Also, the response to the remote control is still mediocre. Particularly annoying is the fact that when I fast forward through a commercial and then hit play, the Echo skips ahead about one minute from when I hit play. I'm resigned to either re-winding or watching the last minute of commercials, and this keeps WAF low and engenders spousal comments about TiVo.