Dolby: Our technologies are not built into Windows 8

[cw-kid]

Yeah that's right 2 channels would be fine to drive a pair of stereo ceiling speakers. We will have to wait and see what's in Windows 8 at RTM so this is obviously all just speculation but good to talk about none the less.

[newfiend]

That's the point. He doesn't have a 5.1 system in his bedroom (he only has 2-channel), so he needs a way to convert Dolby Digital streams to 2-channel if Microsoft doesn't include a Dolby decoder in Windows 8.

Ah.. ok makes sense now.. sorry had a duh moment.. lol

[mcewinter]

This news will really only effect those using 5.1 PC speakers. 2 ch in analog will work just fine, otherwise an AVR will pick up the slack for digital decoding. This might not be good news but it's hardly bad news, it will almost be transparent for the most of us. If you select analog audio out in your sound properties than there is nothing digital about the signal. I have two bedroom setups both in 2 ch analog audio so the DD is not even accessed hence is somewhat of a waste to even have a dolby decoder in those sets. My main system utilizes an AVR bypassing MSs DD decoder anyhow. That means all three of my setups don't even use the MS DD codec.

[richard1980]

If I understand you correctly, your bedroom PCs are outputting analog audio, is that correct? If so, then yes, you are utilizing the Dolby Digital decoder that ships with Windows 7. All digital broadcast TV content in the US is in Dolby Digital (that's an FCC rule). There is no other audio soundtrack. You can't get analog audio from a DD stream without a DD decoder.

[mcewinter]

So what you're saying is that withouth the decoder I would have no sound at all?...and that's what you're expecting in Windows 8? The point I was trying to make (poorly) is that we aren't going to have silent broadcasts or be limited to two channel audio. If I'm wrong then this is a huge step back but I am convinced that this will have little to no effect on us.

I think you just twisted things around by saying "All didgital broadcast in the US is in DD..." you're talking about the broadcast, not how it's truly handled at our end.

[MSattler]

So what you're saying is that withouth the decoder I would have no sound at all?...and that's what you're expecting in Windows 8? The point I was trying to make (poorly) is that we aren't going to have silent broadcasts or be limited to two channel audio. If I'm wrong then this is a huge step back but I am convinced that this will have little to no effect on us.

I think you just twisted things around by saying "All didgital broadcast in the US is in DD..." you're talking about the broadcast, not how it's truly handled at our end.

For DVD/BR playback this is no big deal as I use TMT 5 for this.

What about Ceton/CableCard users? In this scenario MS would then have to allow us to use a 3rd party decoder to decode DD coming in over Cable Card right? Or would we just be expected to pass it through to the TV or AVS?

[mcewinter]

I'm expecting the audio to be passed through but that's an assumption on my part. Can something be broadcast in DD then dummied down to analog 2 channel?...because that's my impression.

Thinking out loud here...I have divx files encoded in 5.1 but I do not have a divx codec other than the MS native codec. When I play divx files they are NOT played in 5.1 digital but I do get 2 channel audio and leave my AVR to fake 5.1 sound. I would think I would get no sound if the fears in this thread were true...in other words a DD audio signal can be dummied down to two channel. Again, these are assumptions on my part, I thought a lack of a DD decoder means lack of AC3 but not a lack in audio as a whole.

[richard1980]

It's very simple: Dolby Digital and AC-3 are the same thing. It's an audio codec. Just like any other audio/video file you try to play, you need the appropriate codec installed. There's one exception to this rule, and that's bitstreaming. Certain audio codecs (like DD, DTS, and WMA Pro) can be output in their encoded form to another device. By bitstreaming the audio information, the PC doesn't need a decoder (because it's not decoding the audio at all...it's handing the audio information off to the other device). But whatever the other device is, it will need a decoder that matches the audio stream.

So here's where the problem comes in. If you don't have a DD decoder on your PC, you either have to install one or bitstream the audio information to some other device that does have a DD decoder.

And for the record, I'm not expecting anything in Windows 8. I'm just participating in this conversation.

[mcewinter]

Well then maybe the lack of a DD decoder in W8 is going to be more catastropic then I'm assuming. After giving it more thought, appliance products have a decoder but I never noticed if cable box do or not, I guess they would have to. Like others have said; TMT will cover the movie area but it seems hard to believe that MS will have us surrender to third parties just for TV viewing after the long distance MC has come in the TV field.

Remember the free DVD software that came with ROM drives? To get anything more than two channel it was required to purchase their product. Does that mean that they had included a two channel digital decoder in the free version?

I still think it's a moot point as a TV will at pass at least a two channel signal to an exterior device. The only show stopper would be if Windows couldn't pass an audio signal through without a DD decoder.

Edit: I obviously took this news lightly but now you guys have me concerned.

[richard1980]

Remember the free DVD software that came with ROM drives? To get anything more than two channel it was required to purchase their product. Does that mean that they had included a two channel digital decoder in the free version?

The DVD specification (and the Blu-ray specification) requires all players to be able to decode Dolby Digital and PCM audio tracks, so yes, the DVD player software includes a DD decoder. Whether that audio stays 5.1 or 2.0 after decoding is up to the software.

What's important about this is if Microsoft drops DD, that means WMC and WMP will not be able to play DVDs or Blu-rays natively. I'm sure many WMC users appreciate the native DVD support, and I know many people want native Blu-ray support as well.

Also, do not confuse the number of channels with the codec. Dolby Digital doesn't mean 5.1. 5.1 is how many audio channels there are, and Dolby Digital can be any number of channels up to the maximum supported by the specific codec. I routinely see recordings from CBS that are Dolby Digital 2.0.

I still think it's a moot point as a TV will at pass at least a two channel signal to an exterior device. The only show stopper would be if Windows couldn't pass an audio signal through without a DD decoder.

This is fairly insignificant when it comes to an HTPC setup, because anyone serious about having an HTPC already has a way to decode DD. About the only people that would be affected are those with old equipment that doesn't support DD, which isn't going to be very many people (seriously, who doesn't have a modern TV or modern AVR that already supports DD?), and people that are using mobile computers that aren't connected to anything (eg, a stand-alone laptop/notebook/tablet).

Edit: I obviously took this news lightly but now you guys have me concerned.

I don't see anything to be concerned about. Honestly, if I were Microsoft, I wouldn't have included DD support natively to begin with. Why pay licensing fees for something that hardly anybody actually needs? At most I would have made it a purchasable add-on to WMC and WMP.

[mcewinter]

To back up a little; I know DD 5.1 2.0 and AC3 are all the same. I always thought that you only need an onboard decoder if you were to utilize PCM out requiring that the decoding happen at the PC end but I never gave it any thought that there would be NO audio if a decoder wasn't present. I just figured it would dummy down to 2 channel PCM in that situation.

[dmccall]

This is a very plausible explanation why Dolby isn't included in Windows8:

Windows 8 is a two layer OS; one for desktops that is essentially Windows 7 sp2. The other is the Metro interface designed for touch interface, but also, conveniently, accepts 4D WMC remote control input.

Micrsoft is under increasing pressure to drop the costs of its OS, so they wouldn't want to pay the licensing fee to Dolby for each copy sold, especially if only 1.5% of buyers will use the Dolby codecs...

THEREFORE...you don't include WMC in every copy of Windows 8. You make it an add-on available in the App Store so those 6 million users will buy the Dolby codecs. Instead of WMC being the walled garden with its own programming language, you dump all but Recorded TV, Guide, and Live TV, and make them their own apps on the Metro UI, a layer that will work on ARM only devices (ie settop boxes). This way one could then put Metro apps for Hulu, Netflix, ESPN, Amazon Prime, Blu RAy players... all in the layer next to WMC. They all would be usable from touch and _remote control_ interfaces hint hint. (Charlie Owens pointed this interaction on Twitter last night) This way developers of media apps would make ONE app for their product that works with many devices. Notice how Charlie Owens said that WMC developers need to jump ship and start developing for the Metro layer?

It all makes sense now.

Get it?