Cable and Satellite in Media Center chat - UK vs US vs Euro

[barnabas1969]

[Mod edit] Topic split from original thread here: http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... f=6&t=4969

Are the HD Sky boxes leased, or purchased outright when you sign up for service?

Also, does the decryption of the stream actually happen inside the DVB-S2 PCIe tuner card? In other words, it sounds as if the DreamBox does nothing except to pass encryption keys to the computer so that the audio/video can be decrypted. Sounds very cool.

[holidayboy]

Are the HD Sky boxes leased, or purchased outright when you sign up for service?

The box is paid for as part of the monthly subscription, I think the box is fully paid for after 12 months but I could be wrong.

There is normally an "installation charge" of approx £50 when you first sign up I think (it's been a long time since I paid Sky anything).

Also, does the decryption of the stream actually happen inside the DVB-S2 PCIe tuner card? In other words, it sounds as if the DreamBox does nothing except to pass encryption keys to the computer so that the audio/video can be decrypted. Sounds very cool.

The actual decryption (the system used is Videoguard) is carried out by a plugin in conjunction with DVBLink, the decrypted stream is then handed to Media Center.

Media Center is never aware off any encryption and there is no embedded DRM.

[barnabas1969]

Very interesting. So, the DVBLink software presents "virtual" tuners to Media Center, and the decryption plugin uses the CPU to do the work.

What this all tells me is that you must get one (leased or purchased) box from Sky, but then you can use a multi-tuner card to tune multiple channels with your single subscription. Very nice.

I'm not moving to the UK, but this is very interesting info. I'm just a geek.

[holidayboy]

Very interesting. So, the DVBLink software presents "virtual" tuners to Media Center, and the decryption plugin uses the CPU to do the work.

What this all tells me is that you must get one (leased or purchased) box from Sky, but then you can use a multi-tuner card to tune multiple channels with your single subscription. Very nice.

Exactly

In a way it would be nice if Sky (and Virgin) allowed for CableCARD type setups for HTPC users.

On the other hand, once you jump through a few hoops, you can end up with a highly capable system with very few limitations.

[barnabas1969]

Well, CableCARD is simpler to setup, but there are drawbacks too. First, the copy-protected content remains copy-protected so that it is only viewable on the computer where it was recorded or on Media Center extenders. Second, there is a limit to the number of tuners per CableCARD. Technically, this is 6 tuners... but nobody makes a consumer-available CableCARD tuner that has more than 4 tuners. EDIT: In order to utilize more tuners, additional CableCARD's must be leased (one CableCard per "host"). Currently-available CableCARD "hosts" have 2, 3, or 4 tuners each.

With the DVBLink setup, it seems that the only limit to the number of tuners is the number of outputs on your LNB, and your recordings are completely free of any DRM which would hinder your ability to watch it anywhere you like. EDIT: And, it appears that you could have multiple dishes, multiple LNB's, and even multiple computers receiving the signals... all using one CI module in a single DreamBox.

It seems that the only complicated parts of this setup are:

A) properly setting up DVBLink.
B) installing a dish with the right type of LNB, and running all of the coax cables to your computer.

Am I correct in assuming that your original Sky box will not be connected to anything once you are finished setting up with your DreamBox and DVBLink?

I assume that you could ask the installer to install the right type of LNB for "future expansion" even though you have only purchased one Sky box? And then, if you aren't handy enough to run all the coax cables yourself, you could hire another handyman to run the cables from the LNB to the location of your computer?

[holidayboy]

The main limit is DVBLink as it can only provide 8 tuners. As you say, you could set up multiple systems and point them all at the Dreambox for the decryption keys.

I think that Sky usually fit quad LNBs these days as a lot of folks have Sky+ boxes which have two tuners and a HDD for recording, similar to a cable co DVR I guess.

The dishes and LNBs are readily available to buy and the only really tricky part is aligning the dish.

A really serious setup would probably use a quattro LNB and multiswitch which can serve many tuners with only four coax drops from the dish.

Edit: Yes, once you get everything set up, the Sky box gets unplugged and stored somewhere safe in case you ever need to call a Sky engineer out - they expect to see the box plugged into your TV when they arrive!

[barnabas1969]

The reason for my questions regarding the installer/handyman is that I assume the Sky installer would suspect something if you asked him to run all four coax cables to a single location.

I didn't know what a "Quatro" LNB was until just a few minutes ago (Google). It seems that a Quatro LNB setup would only be economical if more than four tuners is desired, due to the additional expense of the switching mechanism.

[holidayboy]

We can also use "Freesat" to receive satellite TV, either via a stb, or a TV with a built in dvb-s tuner.

This can all be done with a Sky dish so an installer wouldn't normally be overly concerned, many Sky engineers are actually sub contractors as well so I guess a few may have earned a few extra Pound notes off the books

[barnabas1969]

We can also use "Freesat" to receive satellite TV, either via a stb, or a TV with a built in dvb-s tuner.

This can all be done with a Sky dish so an installer wouldn't normally be overly concerned, many Sky engineers are actually sub contractors as well so I guess a few may have earned a few extra Pound notes off the books

Understood.

I had another thought. If one wishes to have four tuners in the HTPC, then one would actually need five outputs from the LNB (or more than one LNB) due to the need to connect the DreamBox, correct? How much extra does it cost to buy the Quatro LNB setup in the UK?

[holidayboy]

Correct, you need a coax drop per tuner, plus one for the Dreambox.

I'll have to check on prices for the quatro bits, I installed a system a few years ago - that was for a landlord who ran a single satellite cable to each flat (before Sky+ became the norm, back then, Media Center refused to acknowledge the existence of dvb-s!).

I'd guess that the octo LNB setup would be much more cost effective, unless you need more than 8 drops, or the cable run is difficult etc..

[holidayboy]

I looked on the OSCam website, and it has a list of supported devices, but it doesn't list any Technomate ones. I saw one retailer on the web that sells the TM500S Super for less than 99GBP with free shipping to anywhere in mainland UK.

I'm not planning to do this, but thought these questions might help the OP. It's a really cool thing that you (in Europe) are able to do with these satellite boxes. If it was possible to do something similar here in the USA, I might actually consider it as a possibility. However, our only options in the US are FTA satellite (which doesn't have many channels here besides a plethora of religious programming and a few others like RetroTV) or to use multiple satellite STB's connected to Hauppauge HD-PVR's or Colossus cards. The problem with that, besides the mess of wires and boxes, is that each additional STB causes the monthly subscription price to go up.

The 'funny' thing is that we're in the same boat with the multiple stb situation for cable TV over here!

[mark1234]

I looked on the OSCam website, and it has a list of supported devices, but it doesn't list any Technomate ones. I saw one retailer on the web that sells the TM500S Super for less than 99GBP with free shipping to anywhere in mainland UK.

I'm not planning to do this, but thought these questions might help the OP. It's a really cool thing that you (in Europe) are able to do with these satellite boxes. If it was possible to do something similar here in the USA, I might actually consider it as a possibility. However, our only options in the US are FTA satellite (which doesn't have many channels here besides a plethora of religious programming and a few others like RetroTV) or to use multiple satellite STB's connected to Hauppauge HD-PVR's or Colossus cards. The problem with that, besides the mess of wires and boxes, is that each additional STB causes the monthly subscription price to go up.

The 'funny' thing is that we're in the same boat with the multiple stb situation for cable TV over here!

Yeah, barnabas is right that it's cool what can be done with satellite, but Rob is also very right that cable is a shambles. I'd love to be able to do this with cable. But until Sky can provide me decent broadband where I live (ADSL doesn't count as broadband in my book) I'm stuck with Virgin for my internet. And as it's much cheaper sourcing everything from a single supplier, that also means Virgin for TV. Broadband is more important to me than TV as, frankly, I can use broadband to fill in gaps in TV coverage, I can't use TV to mask inadequate broadband.

[holidayboy]

Off topic slightly, sorry.

I remember reading up years ago when t.rex was an option too I think?

There were CI flashes to do and all sorts I think?

I was tempted by a TT tuner card back then but I resisted!

[tony_park]

Off topic slightly, sorry.

I remember reading up years ago when t.rex was an option too I think?

There were CI flashes to do and all sorts I think?

I was tempted by a TT tuner card back then but I resisted!

yep - that was another cam, back in those days, I had a single firedtv tuner, which is in the same said cupboard

Things were simple back then, but I think we still had to put the card back in the sky box to update entitlements - I don't miss that!!!

[barnabas1969]

We probably should split this topic so that this thread only contains information that would be helpful to sshirley in his/her move to Ireland, and a new topic contains comparisons between US/UK/EU cable/satellite providers and methods of getting content into Media Center.

That said, I did a quick search and found this (very old) thread which talks about getting Dish Network content into an HTPC using a DVB-S2 card using DVBDream:
http://www.dvbdream.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=145

Since I'm not very familiar with DVBDream and some of the other technologies mentioned in the thread, perhaps some of you could enlighten me as to what some of that jargon means.