CetonSignals.hta & Tuning adapter

[jaimeknapp]

I am trying to understand things a little better here. I realize that the channel numbers in the following have no relationship to what WMC displays, or major / minor frequencies from Time Warner San Antonio, TX. I am aware that all of these signal levels fall into the +/-12 dBmV specification range and have acceptable SNR values. I am still trying to sort out issues that I have with a specific channel: KENSDT-105, 112.155 Q256 @ 723000.

1 -Is it common for there to be this much range, -5.6 to +12.6 dBmV, between my higher to lower frequencies?

2 - What would be the impact of achieving +6 dBmV gain to boost the higher frequencies closer to 0 dBmV, which would push the lower frequencies above the specified +12 dBmV range limit ?

3 - Is there any relationship between the signal supplied to the TA and the Ceton; where and how they may be split and/or their relative levels, or does the TA only provide upstream data ?

I ask these because I am planning on running some tests over the weekend, isolating my feed to the TA and the Ceton, splitting this feed ahead of my EDA-EQ3100 distribution amp, routing it through and EDA2100 amp (+15 dB) and padding it back down. I certainly do not want to cause any damage by applying too high a signal.

4 - Finally, is all of this a waste of time?

Information From Ceton Card at: http://192.168.200.1
Tuner Instance Used for measurement:0
Number of Frequecies in Cable Card Map:21
Channel List count: 177
Frequency Table

Signal SNR Frequency channel#;channel#;...
10.5 dBmV 38.3 dB 111000 29;34;37;45;47;63;247;401;402;403;404;405;406;407;408;409;410;411;412;413;414;415;416;417;418;419;420;421;422;423;424;425
11.6 dBmV 37.6 dB 117000 20;21;98;100;477
12.6 dBmV 38.3 dB 135000 24;28;30;31;33;35;52;69
11.6 dBmV 37.9 dB 159000 7;11;17;18;22;39;340;492
12.1 dBmV 38.3 dB 165000 25;113;125
4.8 dBmV 37.6 dB 327000 26;27;32;49;76
4.0 dBmV 37.9 dB 357000 43;46;48;56;61;64
7.1 dBmV 38.6 dB 381000 54;57;59;60;68;72;74;75;65
3.9 dBmV 37.6 dB 387000 128;131
4.0 dBmV 38.6 dB 465000 41;127;141
1.1 dBmV 38.3 dB 543000 2;3;4;5;8;9;10;13;15;482
0.1 dBmV 37.6 dB 549000 19;182;310;350;381
-2.6 dBmV 36.4 dB 699000 102;106
-2.8 dBmV 36.8 dB 705000 109;110
-2.8 dBmV 36.6 dB 711000 80;81;104;112
-2.4 dBmV 36.8 dB 717000 92;93;94;96;108;111;460;759
-2.3 dBmV 37.1 dB 723000 79;105;107
-5.6 dBmV 36.2 dB 765000 1;6;38;51;71;73;765;768;999;1899
-5.4 dBmV 36.0 dB 771000 36;40;42;320;365
-5.0 dBmV 36.2 dB 777000 12;23;53;55;58;62;66;67
-4.6 dBmV 36.2 dB 783000 44;50;90;97;208;209;232;245

[barnabas1969]

+12.6dB is just a little too high. -5.6dB is fine. Ceton specifies -10 to +10, not 12. All of your SNR values look good. Do not add an amplifier.

That said, the tuning adapter could have bad signal while the tuner has good signal. The signals returned by the CetonSignals.hta script only show the signals for the tuner, not for the Tuning Adapter. Have you ever looked at the FDC and RDC signal strength and SNR of the Tuning Adapter? It's on a separate page in the web diagnostics. The RDC (Return Data Channel, or transmit) needs to be less than 50dB, with 25dB being the "sweet spot". The FDC (Forward Data Channel, or receive) needs to be in the same +/-10dB with SNR near 35 or higher.

[jaimeknapp]

From the Ceton web diagnostic, Tuning Adapter, Page 2, everything is marked as disabled. At no place are RDC or FDC even shown for the Cisco 1520.

[barnabas1969]

From the Ceton web diagnostic, Tuning Adapter, Page 2, everything is marked as disabled. At no place are RDC or FDC even shown for the Cisco 1520.

Unfortunately, I can't direct you to the correct page. I no longer have a Ceton tuner. I bought two HD HomeRun Prime tuners and sold my Ceton. Someone else may be able to direct you to the correct page. There are quite a few pages relating to the Tuning Adapter, so you may want to browse around some.

I also have a Cisco STA-1520. It was the same TA that I had when I had a Ceton tuner. I know for a fact that the information is listed there somewhere.

[jaimeknapp]

Could well be a Ceton firmware version difference. There is nothing more relative to the TA in any of the other pages I could find with FW 1.1.8.2.

[barnabas1969]

No, I don't think the firmware would have changed the web pages. You are going to 192.168.200.1 in your web browser (on the HTPC), correct? There should be something under the Tuning Adapter called the Diagnostic Map or something similar. It should look like this (important values in red):

CURRENT FDC
Freq: 74.500 MHz
DAVIC: Connected
Status: Locked
Level: -1 dBmV
Seconds: 1145661
Corr Bytes: 54
Uncor Blks: 198
Errs Avg/Inst: 0 / 0
Total Bytes: 537374248
S/N: 33 dB
CURRENT QAM
Freq: 783.000 MHz
Tuning Mode: QAM-256
Status: Locked
Level: 4 dBmV
S/N: 37 dB
Seconds: 21838
Corr Bytes: 8
Uncor Blks: 0
Errs Avg/Inst: 0 / 0
EQ Gain: 1.0
CURRENT RDC
Freq: 20.000 MHz
Power: 40 dBmV
Delay: 716 uSec
Retrans: 4

EDIT: Note that "S/N" as displayed on the web page refers to the "SNR" (Signal to Noise Ratio) that I mentioned earlier.

[jaimeknapp]

Sorry, found the link within page 1 of the tuner adapter . The levels are on par with yours.

To be honest, red versus black text are difficult to distinguish when on has a red/green deficiency. Throw in a green and I''m screwed.

[erkotz]

Re 1: You can purchase tilt compensators, which effectively atteunuate some frequencies more than others.
Re 2: It probably wouldn't matter, but I don't think it will help anything either over where you're at now, so I wouldn't bother.
Re 3: The TA only talks back to the headend over coax - there is no need to hook the InfiniTV to it's output (though the InfiniTV does still need a coax connection)
Re 4: Depends - do you have a problem you are trying to solve?

From the Ceton web diagnostic, Tuning Adapter, Page 2, everything is marked as disabled. At no place are RDC or FDC even shown for the Cisco 1520.

Are you saying when you click on the word "Two" it shows disabled, but "One" shows ready? If so, this is expected - the Two is legacy from when TAs only supported two streams, and 2 TAs were needed. As long as your single ("One") TA is working, it is normal for Two to show as disabled.

[barnabas1969]

Sorry, found the link within page 1 of the tuner adapter . The levels are on par with yours.

To be honest, red versus black text are difficult to distinguish when on has a red/green deficiency. Throw in a green and I''m screwed.

Those are not my numbers... I found them online. I'll post the important numbers below (with comments in parenthesis), all by themselves, so you can see what I'm talking about:

CURRENT FDC (section heading)
...
Level: -1 dBmV (receive signal strength, should be +/-10dBmV)
...
S/N: 33 dB (receive signal-to-noise ratio, should be near 35dB or above)
...
CURRENT RDC (section heading)
...
Power: 40 dBmV (transmit signal strength, should be at or below 50dBmV, but closer to 25-40 is better)

[barnabas1969]

Re 3: The TA only talks back to the headend over coax

Not really correct. The TA also receives status information, firmware updates, and acknowledgements from the headend.

[jaimeknapp]

Erkotz,

Thanks. I am still exploring any option in clearing up the one single channel indicated in my first message, which we discussed elsewhere, that displays no issues using the Samsung screen's internal clear QAM tuner or TWC's SA box. I am beginning to think it just won't happen regardless of where the problem lies.

[erkotz]

Re 3: The TA only talks back to the headend over coax

Not really correct. The TA also receives status information, firmware updates, and acknowledgements from the headend.

True - my statement was meant to address the OP's question though, in that the TA does not "inject" the video into the coax, like is sometimes believed

[barnabas1969]

Re 3: The TA only talks back to the headend over coax

Not really correct. The TA also receives status information, firmware updates, and acknowledgements from the headend.

True - my statement was meant to address the OP's question though, in that the TA does not "inject" the video into the coax, like is sometimes believed

I understand. I just wanted to point out that the FDC (receive) signal strength/quality is just as important as the RDC (transmit). If either is not working well, the TA will have intermittent problems, or won't work at all.