Official Formats Supported

[foxwood]

Flash is dead (well, almost). It is too bad Ceton couldn't get flash support pulled before Adobe pulled the plug on Flash because content providers are still going to be using it for awhile.

The big players in content have been providing non-Flash solutions since the iPad was released. They'll be providing converting their non-Flash iPad solutions for Windows 8 if/when that market develops, especially if the "metro" sandbox provides them the sort of protection from casual copying that they get with the iPad.

The question shouldn't be "Will the Echo support Flash?", it should be "Will the Echo support Metro Apps?"

The answer to that question could be what makes or breaks the long term future of the Echo extender.

[barnabas1969]

Flash is dead (well, almost). It is too bad Ceton couldn't get flash support pulled before Adobe pulled the plug on Flash because content providers are still going to be using it for awhile.

The big players in content have been providing non-Flash solutions since the iPad was released. They'll be providing converting their non-Flash iPad solutions for Windows 8 if/when that market develops, especially if the "metro" sandbox provides them the sort of protection from casual copying that they get with the iPad.

The question shouldn't be "Will the Echo support Flash?", it should be "Will the Echo support Metro Apps?"

The answer to that question could be what makes or breaks the long term future of the Echo extender.

For the Echo to support Metro apps, wouldn't it need to run Windows 8 Embedded?

[foxwood]

For the Echo to support Metro apps, wouldn't it need to run Windows 8 Embedded?

Why - it's not running Windows 7 embedded, but you can access 7MC extensions on it. To the extent that an Extender is "just" a special kind of remote desktop session, access to Metro Apps would depend on Windows 8 support on the server, not on the extender.

[barnabas1969]

For the Echo to support Metro apps, wouldn't it need to run Windows 8 Embedded?

Why - it's not running Windows 7 embedded, but you can access 7MC extensions on it. To the extent that an Extender is "just" a special kind of remote desktop session, access to Metro Apps would depend on Windows 8 support on the server, not on the extender.

I understand what you mean now. Well, then, that would require M$ to make some changes to WMC. We all know that's not going to happen.

[foxwood]

There is a new blog post that really goes in depth on plugins, codecs, container etc: http://cetoncorp.com/blog/more-details-on-ceton-echo/ check it out and it would be nice to have feedback to see if that helps clear up a lot of echo questions

Wake On LAN?

Right now, that's the only missing feature on the DMA extenders in the bedrooms in our house that's a real PIA. They're reasonably responsive, they're only used for recorded/live TV so the lack of advanced codec and VOB support isn't that big a deal, and the fact that they support analog output is actually an advantage.

I'm just not sure I can justify $180 for WoL support, but if it's there, the Echo might make it onto my "things that I wouldn't mind finding in my stocking on Christmas Morning" list.

[Embiggens]

This is still looking great to me. Internet services are best left to a dedicated media streamer, like a roku. I wish the echo could be a 1 box solution but nobody else has accomplished that either, so no big deal to me. It's a niche product so the price is to be expected.

The new echo blog post is helpful to me. I am a simple man and have all my videos in as h264 in mp4's, largely so they're easily playable on various devices. My question is, can the echo fast forward or rewind through these types of files, unlike the 360? Or is this also determined by WMC itself? Seems like if the streams are passed to the echo, it might be able to handle fast forward and rewind. I'm still looking forward to my wave in the beta. I'm sure it will be the best wave.

[barnabas1969]

There is a new blog post that really goes in depth on plugins, codecs, container etc: http://cetoncorp.com/blog/more-details-on-ceton-echo/ check it out and it would be nice to have feedback to see if that helps clear up a lot of echo questions

Wake On LAN?

Right now, that's the only missing feature on the DMA extenders in the bedrooms in our house that's a real PIA. They're reasonably responsive, they're only used for recorded/live TV so the lack of advanced codec and VOB support isn't that big a deal, and the fact that they support analog output is actually an advantage.

I'm just not sure I can justify $180 for WoL support, but if it's there, the Echo might make it onto my "things that I wouldn't mind finding in my stocking on Christmas Morning" list.

See here for a solution that works on the Linksys and HP extenders.

[foxwood]

I have the DNS server address on my extenders set to 0.0.0.0, to resolve the problem with the Extenders locking up when Cisco forgets to put a shilling in the meter. And even if that wasn't an issue, we leave the Extenders on most of the time, to get "instant on" and avoid that annoyinng sound they make when starting up. So triggering WoL on startup isn't as helpful a solution as triggering it when the Extender tries to connect and doesn't get a response.

Maybe one of these days I'll set up one of the extenders to use Wi-Fi and wireshark the packets it sends (because I don't have a hub anymore, and switches make eavesdropping hard). I guess I could also just plug an extender into a spare dd-wrt box, turn the log-level to 11 and see if anything useful turns up in the syslog.

[barnabas1969]

I have the DNS server address on my extenders set to 0.0.0.0, to resolve the problem with the Extenders locking up when Cisco forgets to put a shilling in the meter. And even if that wasn't an issue, we leave the Extenders on most of the time, to get "instant on" and avoid that annoyinng sound they make when starting up. So triggering WoL on startup isn't as helpful a solution as triggering it when the Extender tries to connect and doesn't get a response.

Maybe one of these days I'll set up one of the extenders to use Wi-Fi and wireshark the packets it sends (because I don't have a hub anymore, and switches make eavesdropping hard). I guess I could also just plug an extender into a spare dd-wrt box, turn the log-level to 11 and see if anything useful turns up in the syslog.

I haven't experienced a problem with the Linksys when it attempts to "phone home". I think it has something to do with your ISP, or possibly even in what country you are located.

The reason I chose to write my script to detect the DNS packets that are routed to the WAN side of my router was because my extenders are connected to a switch that is then up-linked to the router. The traffic between the extenders and the WMC computer never go through the router. If your extenders are plugged directly into the router, or if you could place an extra router between your extenders and the PC (with the extenders on the WAN side, the WMC PC on the LAN side, and obviously with all ports forwarded, and therefore the firewall disabled), then that router could trigger the WOL... but it would need to trigger off of port 3776 instead of port 53 (DNS).

[lithium630]

I haven't experienced a problem with the Linksys when it attempts to "phone home". I think it has something to do with your ISP, or possibly even in what country you are located.

That was a big problem for a short time. Both of mine stopped working until I did the work around. I think Linksys fixed it. I'm a little disappointed that Netflix won't be supported out of the box. That is my biggest complaint about the Xbox. I won't pay for Xbox live.

[lithium630]

Doh..

[foxwood]

or if you could place an extra router between your extenders and the PC (with the extenders on the WAN side, the WMC PC on the LAN side, and obviously with all ports forwarded, and therefore the firewall disabled), then that router could trigger the WOL... but it would need to trigger off of port 3776 instead of port 53 (DNS).

I hadn't thought of doing it that way - I thought the Extender traffic couldn't be routed (I remember reading that people couldn't get it working over a VPN), so the idea of using the Extender on the WAN port wasn't even on my list of things to try.

[barnabas1969]

or if you could place an extra router between your extenders and the PC (with the extenders on the WAN side, the WMC PC on the LAN side, and obviously with all ports forwarded, and therefore the firewall disabled), then that router could trigger the WOL... but it would need to trigger off of port 3776 instead of port 53 (DNS).

I hadn't thought of doing it that way - I thought the Extender traffic couldn't be routed (I remember reading that people couldn't get it working over a VPN), so the idea of using the Extender on the WAN port wasn't even on my list of things to try.

A VPN and a router are not the same things. Basically, what you'd want to do is take an old router that is sitting around collecting dust (preferably one with gigabit LAN and WAN ports, but 100 megabit is fine if you aren't running too many extenders), and install DD-WRT on it.

Connect it in-line between the PC and the first switch/router so that the PC is on the LAN side, and the rest of your network is on the WAN side. You'll need to port-forward ALL ports (1-65535) so that the router is basically open to everything passing through. You might need to mess around with subnet addresses and routing tables, because the LAN and WAN sides need to be different subnet addresses (e.g. 192.168.1.x, and 192.168.2.x), so the PC and the extenders will need to know how to find each other. This can be accomplished in your routers (both will probably need to have updated routing tables).

Then, once you get connectivity all straightened out, the newly added router needs something similar to my WOL script so that it will send a WOL packet to the PC whenever an extender attempts to connect. It would be an interesting project, but I don't have a spare router laying around.

[cparker2k]

Wow does this forum only support one thread??

So apart from whether mp4 is a codec or container. Can anybody answer my original question around whether it will or wont play it?
My DVDs are ripped at; MP4 with AVC Video stream, AAC Audio stream (AVC - High @L4.1) which play perfectly on the PS3

Thanks in advance

[Sammy2]

Containers are split buy the host machine but I'm not sure if AAC is supported by the Echo yet.

[tlamot01]

I realize the point of this thread is to not have to re-encode your entire library, but for those select few of us just entering the BD-ROM ripping game, here is a suggestion that is both easy and friendly to use.

I've been using the LEAWO Smart Blu-Ray Ripper (got it on a Christmas promotion for $10). Every Blu-Ray I own (mostly Pixar and Disney films) have transferred quite well and in a very impressive time frame. It rips directly from the BD-ROM drive and cracks the encryption (no AnyDVD or similar program is required). I'm very pleased with this software. It has just about every profile I can think of and supports CUDA for many of them. I can rip a Blu-Ray in real time using my Nvidia Quaddro 600 card paired with an Intel Q6600 processor. This program reminds me of the simplicity of DVD Shrink, but with a lot more re-encoding options. I use the default Xbox360 Matroska profile for 720P (which looks fine for Disney and Pixar movies). Every one I've encoded so far plays flawlessly on every Xbox but has a very slight frame-rate issue on the Echo.

There are some drawbacks that I think are worth mentioning:

-- You can do a direct audio copy, but since most recent soundtracks are DTS (which the Echo does not decode / bitstream yet), doing a direct audio copy is not recommended. I believe you can use a program such as MKV2MP4 to down mix a DTS track to AC3/AAC.
-- Native audio ripping within the program is limited to AAC Stereo down mix. Again, for what I've used it for so far, I'm fine with stereo as all my receivers support Dolby Prologic II, which does fine to simulate surround.
-- This is the first type of re-encode I've been able to perform that allows me to use the FF-SKIP and RW-SKIP buttons on the remote. I have not been able to actually FF or REW a file in the same manner as recorded TV. The audio will recover using SKIP commands!
-- Rips in near real time with my four year old components (very surprised by this). I imagine a modern Nvidia Cuda card will zoom through a two hour movie in about 30 minutes or less.
-- I ripped Cars in 1080P fixed 5k bitrate with DTS copy and it plays fine on my Xbox. No sound on the Echo and the video skips only slightly (maybe 1 in 15 frames is dropped). I've tried constant and variable bitrate using AAC stereo downmix, which both work on the Echo, but neither plays smooth.
-- Using Matroska profile, (720P, 2500k CBR, Native FPS, AAC Stereo) I can get a 1.5 hour movie down to roughly 1GB. I don't crop my movies and allow the program to encode the black bars, but I do trim the intros and credits. Maybe a bit of tweaking would get the size down to ~700MB as I've seen on some multi-channel 1080P torrents (..ahem ...just browsing folks).
-- Maybe I need to test this more. I can encode with subtitles, but the Echo has no way of turning them off. It seems to 'burn' the subtitles into the movie since the .mkv file on my PC, when opened through various players does not give me the option to turn them off either. For foreign movies (I tried this on "End of the Spear"), the forced subtitle track burned into the movie the way I wanted it to. But for those that can't live without subtitle options, proceed with caution.

I hope this helps and if anyone else has this program, give some input.

Echo Test Environment:
WMC7 Server: Gigabyte Core2Duo Q6600 2.4GHz, Win7 Ultimate x64, 4GB memory, Nvidia Quaddro Q600 (CUDA), 80GB Intel SSD boot, 4TB attached DVR storage, UPS
Echo: LG 60PS60 Plasma, 5.1 surround via Toslink.
Network: Wired Gig-E via Asus RT-N16 and 8-port Netgear Gig-E switch, UPS
Signal: Charter HDTV Cable via inifiniTV4, wired distribution to 3 x360s and 1 Echo.