Echo unable to play WTV recordings on server

[FrankAZ]

Hi,

My replacement Echo arrived Thursday and I found time to experiment on Friday and again today. Pretty pleased so far but I have an annoying/puzzling behavior I wonder if anyone else has seen, and better found a fix for.

My only extender (the Echo) is associated with my (presently only) networked HTPC. I also have two servers: a WHS v1 and a Windows Server 2012 Essentials. I store WTV recordings on the HTPC, the WHSv1, and the W2102E. All those WTV recordings play on the HTPC because I have the Recorded TV folders added to the HTPC media libraries.

From the Echo I can play WTV recordings on the HTPC and WHSv1 servers. The recordings on the W2012E machine show up in the Recorded TV listings but do not have thumbnails (from the Echo) and when I try to play them I get the following:

Application Failure
A critical Windows Media Center process has failed. Restart the computer and try again. If the problem persists, contact your hardware manufacturer for assistance.

I have restarted everything in sight, including over the course of several days every other PC on my home network. (All of which can see all the WTV recordings on all servers, though of course only the HTPC which created the recording can play the DRM protected ones).

So, before I start building muscles and undoing my holiday slothfulness by sprinting up and down stairs to scrutinize logs on multiple machines in near real-time, does anyone recognize this error? Ideally an identified service somewhere which I can debug. I'm not even sure which machine is missing the process - the Echo, the HTPC, or my W2012E machine, though I suspect the W2012E if I can play from the WHSv1.

A quick search of the WWW including these forums shows the error occurring with XBox extenders too but the suggested solution seems to be either a WMC re-install or even a whole PC Win7 re-install, which I am loath to do as I have so many DRM'd WTV files. Even then the problem does not seem to always improve. What is strange to me is that the Echo associated with my only HTPC can play WTV files on one server (WHSv1) but not the other (W2012E) even while every file is completely accessible to every machine on my network, and is even seen to exist from the Echo.

Frank.

[Crash2009]

I would imagine that there are a thousand causes of the same error. I did get that one before.

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... =69&t=3648

"Application Failure A critical Windows Media Center process has failed. Restart the computer and try again. If the problem persists, contact your hardware manufacturer for assistance."

In the essence of time, I decided to go the fresh install route. Everything worked OK after that. I have always suspected 3 things that caused the problems for me. 1 cracked DVD software, 2 cracked DVD software, or 3 WHS2011 connector software. Those 3 were left out of the current install.

[FrankAZ]

I would imagine that there are a thousand causes of the same error. I did get that one before.

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... =69&t=3648

"Application Failure A critical Windows Media Center process has failed. Restart the computer and try again. If the problem persists, contact your hardware manufacturer for assistance."

In the essence of time, I decided to go the fresh install route. Everything worked OK after that. I have always suspected 3 things that caused the problems for me. 1 cracked DVD software, 2 cracked DVD software, or 3 WHS2011 connector software. Those 3 were left out of the current install.

Thanks for the reply Crash. I came across your earlier troubles in my WWW trawl but am hesitant to go the reinstall route on my HTPC since I have so many DRM'd files. I don't have any DVD ripping or other suspect software on my HTPC or servers as I use other machines for that. The iffiest is a copy of the Haali splitter so that I can play MKVs. I did however have a permissions issue with the WHSv1 connector a while back (which I found soon after I had installed the Echo connector, though perhaps that was a coincidence). I had to fix that by fixing the ownership of the Windows Media services. That gives me somewhere to start looking so thanks for the pointer. Maybe I need to find the new account created for the Echo and make sure the permissions scope that.

The services Ceton identify in their troubleshooting are all running.

Odd that the Echo can see the unplayable WTV files, parse the metadata to show the episode blurb, but when I try to play it it fails. Seems to be a streaming issue, but exactly the same WTV file copied back to both the HTPC and WHSv1 will stream/play OK. It's a head-scratcher!

Frank.

[Crash2009]

Yes, I played around with Haali and MKV too, as part of the DVD/Blue-Ray project, (I forgot about that) Don't know enough about it to put any blame there.

I could see all the files also. My Echo would play music or play pictures. It just wouldn't play any video (live or recorded).

All my Win 7 images turned out to be no good. I had to go fresh. I only lost 17 protected movies. A lot of stuff that I thought was "protected" wasn't. Some stuff that is marked as protected "still plays" Those DRM boys do not have all the bases covered. Try your protected files from a computer "other than" the computer they were created with and you will see what I mean.

Good luck Frank

Merry Xmas

[barnabas1969]

Frank,

It would be interesting to find out if another model extender will exhibit the same behavior. I have an HP X280N sitting idle. The Echo replaced it in my bedroom. I'd be happy to ship it to you, as long as you promise to ship it back after testing to see if it has the same problem as the Echo.

PM me if you're interested.

Brian

[lousyg]

I had the exact same problem, and the same symptom that thumbnails weren't being displayed. Are your recorded files on a password-protected Windows share? If so, you need to go to the extender and manually add the library location so that you can specify the username and password. This recently bit me as I was setting up a similar configuration.

I've found that it doesn't matter if your Media Center host already has a location added as a share. The Extender apparently needs the credentials specified so that it can access the share directly (a very weird bug, if you ask me).

Go to the extender, then Tasks -> Settings -> Media Libraries -> [Media Type] -> Add folders to the library -> Let me manually add a shared folder. Then, enter the path to the share, the username, and the password. It doesn't matter if the path is already listed in your library locations. Duplicates will be handled, but the important thing here is that you're giving your extender the username and password for the share.

An alternative would be to allow Anonymous/Guest connections to the share.

Hope this helps!

[FrankAZ]

I had the exact same problem, and the same symptom that thumbnails weren't being displayed. Are your recorded files on a password-protected Windows share? If so, you need to go to the extender and manually add the library location so that you can specify the username and password. This recently bit me as I was setting up a similar configuration.

I've found that it doesn't matter if your Media Center host already has a location added as a share. The Extender apparently needs the credentials specified so that it can access the share directly (a very weird bug, if you ask me).

Go to the extender, then Tasks -> Settings -> Media Libraries -> [Media Type] -> Add folders to the library -> Let me manually add a shared folder. Then, enter the path to the share, the username, and the password. It doesn't matter if the path is already listed in your library locations. Duplicates will be handled, but the important thing here is that you're giving your extender the username and password for the share.

An alternative would be to allow Anonymous/Guest connections to the share.

Hope this helps!

Thank you LousyG. That is a great lead. I believe that my W2012E server is sharing correctly for machines/accounts on my network BUT I have not explicitly configured the Media Libraries on the Echo and nor do I have a Guest account active on my W2012E server. I will experiment with configuring Libraries and expanding access permissions as soon as family and visitors allow me access to the equipment. Maybe late tonight after Santa has gorged himself on mince pies and whisky.

Thinking about it I can see how there may be a number of issues to explore. I had thought that the Media Libraries configuration accessible from the Echo was a mirror of the configuration made at the HTPC. If it isn't that could explain a lot. The browsable recordings and their metadata are doubtless provided to the Echo by the HTPC but I can see that the streaming and thumbnails could/would be directly from the server to the Echo. If the Echo-Server permissions are not correct, or if the Echo is not able to resolve the IP of my server correctly, then the Echo would not be able to find the WTV to play.

It would be useful if the Echo had some sort of debug feature providing Ping, DNS test, ARP, and something to prove accessibility of a shared folder.

I'll post my results later in the holidays.

Merry Christmas to all.
Frank.

UPDATE: I found time to hide myself in the room with the Echo and make a quick test. I used the Echo to edit my Media Library for Recorded TV. I deleted the entry for my server which was there from Day #1 and added back an equivalent entry which used the static IP address instead of the machine name and re-entered the account and password I use for my media sharing. So, "\\192.168.1.111\Recorded TV" instead of "\\Win2012Server\Recorded TV".

As soon as I did that I noticed the Recorded TV visible to my Echo began repopulating and soon some of the thumbnails for shows on the server started appearing too. I gave it 15 minutes for good luck and then tried to play a TV recording on the Server - SUCCESS!

Thank you LousyG for the lead. Since I changed two things (IP instead of machine name, and re-entered the account/password at the Echo) I'm not certain which fixed the issue but for now I'm able to watch Recorded TV. I'll poke about later in the week to see if I can isolate the root cause further.

[lousyg]

I'm glad I was able to help, FrankAZ.

Have a very merry Christmas!

[foxwood]

I've found that it doesn't matter if your Media Center host already has a location added as a share. The Extender apparently needs the credentials specified so that it can access the share directly (a very weird bug, if you ask me).

There's nothing weird about that - an Extender is a seperate user session on your HTPC. It doesn't have access to network resources that have been acquired by other user processes.

Multi-user OS 101.

[lousyg]

There's nothing weird about that

I disagree. Media libraries that have been added to the HTPC itself (as well as the content they contain) appear on each of the extenders, regardless of whether or not credentials are required. However, unless the user has specifically provided the credentials for these libraries (as necessary) on EACH of the extenders, the library content is inaccessible.

Regardless of the technical explanation behind this behavior, it's very counter-intuitive and confusing to the users. One would expect that libraries and their content that have been added to an HTPC would be directly accessible by each extender (since it's extending the HTPC itself). Because this isn't the case, one would then expect that the libraries and their content not appear on each extender and library management would be specific to each extender or the HTPC. However, neither of these are the case, and the result is, like I said, "weird."

Human-computer Interface 101.

[richard1980]

Target WMC user demographics: 5% geeks, 95% non-geeks.
Actual WMC user demographics: 95% geeks, 5% non-geeks.

Made up statistics 101.

[lousyg]

Target WMC user demographics: 5% geeks, 95% non-geeks.
Actual WMC user demographics: 95% geeks, 5% non-geeks.

Made up statistics 101.

This doesn't make my point any less valid, though. In this case, user expectation is independent of user skill level. This behavior is undocumented and counter-intuitive. I'm considered, by your standards, a "geek" (and I would assume FrankAZ is as well, based on his commentary). However, we were both (along with others across the Internet) victims of the same oddity.

I'm just trying to retain some credibility, here. Foxwood insisted that this behavior isn't strage, and implied that I lacked basic "multi-user OS" knowledge. You seem to be suggesting that just because the primary user base for WMC consists primarily of tech-savy individuals, this functionality should be expected.

[handyd]

I just came across the same problem. I was on vacation and came back last night. I noticed that my echo was on version 2012.1219.1030. I can't remember if it upgraded on it's own or I upgraded before I left on the 21st. I was on 1022 beta prior. I know it was working, because I tested a bunch of files that were on the Server. Ceton must have done something that broke in 1030. I just submitted a ticket.

[foxwood]

There's nothing weird about that

I disagree. Media libraries that have been added to the HTPC itself (as well as the content they contain) appear on each of the extenders, regardless of whether or not credentials are required. However, unless the user has specifically provided the credentials for these libraries (as necessary) on EACH of the extenders, the library content is inaccessible.

The links are stored in a shared location. The network usernames/passwords aren't (and shouldn't be). I can see how this confuses some people, but the correct way to fix it would be to put up a warning when adding a library that needs network credentials, NOT to break basic network security priniciples by sharing the username/password.

[handyd]

I fixed the problem by reinstalling the WHS connector on my HTPC.

[FrankAZ]

There's nothing weird about that

I disagree. Media libraries that have been added to the HTPC itself (as well as the content they contain) appear on each of the extenders, regardless of whether or not credentials are required. However, unless the user has specifically provided the credentials for these libraries (as necessary) on EACH of the extenders, the library content is inaccessible.

The links are stored in a shared location. The network usernames/passwords aren't (and shouldn't be). I can see how this confuses some people, but the correct way to fix it would be to put up a warning when adding a library that needs network credentials, NOT to break basic network security principles by sharing the username/password.

I agree with Foxwood. It is right and proper that normal networking security principles are followed.

What is wrong in this case is that the Recorded TV library configuration on the Echo is auto-populated with the same configuration used by the WMC user on the HTPC but the Echo is not the same user. Best case the new Echo user should be prompted to enter any networking security credentials as soon as the network resource is first attempted. Next best, a poor best, would be to better document it (something which should be done anyway). Worst would be to leave it as it is now and have myriads of users give up on it and just presume that their Echo can't deliver the promised goods.

Now, I recognize that Ceton can't support every individual odd-ball HTPC and home networking configuration and certainly don't want to be dragged into that tar-pit, but there is expertise here and there that could be better shared. I ran into this easily solved and in retrospect understandable Recorded TV issue. I am sure there are many others who are not familiar with these forums and would be stuck for longer. Similarly for all those people with well-known and popular plugins such as Media Browser. A series of HowTo Guides offered as-is and which at least describe or list the aspects of concern so that a user can begin to struggle in a forward direction would help. A description of how a moving image and audio stored in VIDEO_TS/MKV/MPG/etc arrives at the Echo user's eyeball would be useful. Basics of where splitters must be installed, which machine needs which codecs, which network protocols/ports are used, whether a codec on the Echo comes into play, whether transcoders are necessary, or whether they are bandaids for some underlying solvable problem.

You get the picture - something more than a quickstart guide for the bare-bones HTPC. My own feel is that most HTPC owners are more tech savvy than green beginners otherwise they'd be using TiVo or some other DVR. Many if not most have developed away from a stock install of Windows and WMC, have added tuners, plugins, networked storage, etc. But, very few are IT professionals, and virtually none are digital media experts. I'm not, but I'm willing to learn what I need to if someone gives me a steer in the right direction. I am reluctant to squander the few femto-WAF credits I have remaining with my family with ill-thought or uninformed experiments which may further jeopardize the stability of the HTPC to which all my DRM'd recordings are tethered.

Frank.

[compchick813]

"Application Failure A critical Windows Media Center process has failed. Restart the computer and try again. If the problem persists, contact your hardware manufacturer for assistance."

I had this issue and hadn't been able to solve it by simply uninstalling and reconfiguring the Echo. I ended up following both method 1 & 2 at the same time from this post, then rebooted the extender (also try rebooting the PC if needed).

http://www.sevenforums.com/media-center ... ost1247919